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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 20:11:29 GMT
Spanish Bull isn't realistically happening. It's far more likely for Bull to kill the Dog to be killed than viceversa. It's actually harder for the Bull to kill a Dog than for it to kill a Brown Bear/Lion/Tiger, not because the Dog is more powerful (because it's obviously not) but because it's small size helps it greatly reduce the full blunt power of a charge. And makes it harder to be gored by horns. Also you are heavily underestimating Spanish Bull durability. In 1.609 there was an incident where after it destroyed a Lion it was shot by a Crossbow and pierced by a Knight's lance before releasing a pack of Gripping Dogs to hunt it down, it still took over an hour for it to die of blood loss. "It is said that, in Valladolid, the King ordered a wooden fence to be made to confront a lion with a brave bull that he owned. The lion was turned over almost instantly, as the bull charged at him very quickly. The lion was fleeing from him, so the bull was stung by a knight. Instead of being scared, he grew angry at the punishment and it was even more difficult to approach him. They shot him with a crossbow and later unleashed dogs on him. After an epic fight against all these adversities, in approximately somewhat over an hour, he bled to death." They're very durable, that is part of why it's the hardest but the bigger problem is its speed and aggression. If the spanish bull is subjugated, the threat has been neutralized and they can chew it to death at leisure. Its small size makes this outcome more possible. In that example it still took several Dogs over an hour to kill an already heavily injured Bull. I don't know what you mean by "subjugated", i don't think even a subjugated one would allow itself to be killed and do nothing |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 20:16:00 GMT
They're very durable, that is part of why it's the hardest but the bigger problem is its speed and aggression. If the spanish bull is subjugated, the threat has been neutralized and they can chew it to death at leisure. Its small size makes this outcome more possible. In that example it still took several Dogs over an hour to kill an already heavily injured Bull. I don't know what you mean by "subjugated", i don't think even a subjugated one would allow itself to be killed and do nothing In my example 2 dogs subjugate a spanish bull without issues - streamable.com/z2gw2cIt was very much doing nothing at the end of the video. |
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 20:20:58 GMT
In that example it still took several Dogs over an hour to kill an already heavily injured Bull. I don't know what you mean by "subjugated", i don't think even a subjugated one would allow itself to be killed and do nothing In my example 2 dogs subjugate a spanish bull without issues - streamable.com/z2gw2cIt was very much doing nothing at the end of the video. That Bull wasn't trying very hard to begin with. As shown by it not moving a lot or trying to thrown them in the Air and impale them with it's horns as an actual comitted Bull would do. It's more of a "I don't care, leave me alone" thing. If the Bull thought it was about to die it's behaviour would change very quickly Also, we are talking about a single Dog |
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ophio
Ruminant
Posts: 230
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Post by ophio on Nov 26, 2023 20:22:41 GMT
A wolf might have a cardio advantage over a kangal if it's able to survive for a while?
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 20:37:14 GMT
My biggest disagreement with you and Dale is claiming that a good Boarhound can subjugate any Bovine or any Boar. Yes, the people who sell these Dogs sometimes puts "LUGS ANY HOG ONE ON ONE" on their description, but that's what advertisers do, hype up their products, they aren't objective. Not denying that these Dogs can perform very well when hunting Boar. But i don't get the taking ads at face value and claiming that now means a Bull Arab would subjugate a Ussuri Boar.
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 20:38:21 GMT
In my example 2 dogs subjugate a spanish bull without issues - streamable.com/z2gw2cIt was very much doing nothing at the end of the video. That Bull wasn't trying very hard to begin with. As shown by it not moving a lot or trying to thrown them in the Air and impale them with it's horns as an actual comitted Bull would do. It's more of a "I don't care, leave me alone" thing. If the Bull thought it was about to die it's behaviour would change very quickly Also, we are talking about a single Dog A bull can only throw a dog if it does something wrong and is small enough, like the young dumb pup sent sailing by the big bull. 2 good 80lbs Alanos have a spanish bull on lock, no matter how many shit gripping dogs can get ravaged by a spanish bull. I saw a puma beat the shit out of 6 Dogals and a Dogo with 1 arm. Is that what will happen most of the time if even just 2 decent 80-100lbs gripping dogs get a hold of your average puma in Argentina? Absolutely not. |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 20:40:49 GMT
My biggest disagreement with you and Dale is claiming that a good Boarhound can subjugate any Bovine or any Boar. Yes, the people who sell these Dogs sometimes puts "LUGS ANY HOG ONE ON ONE" on their description, but that's what advertisers do, hype up their products, they aren't objective. Not denying that these Dogs can perform very well when hunting Boar. But i don't get the taking ads at face value and claiming that now means a Bull Arab would subjugate a Ussuri Boar. But they aren't advertisers, they aren't even dog breeders, this is important information. Most pig dogs are a "lug any hog 1 on 1" dog. You will also get dogs who "lugs hard with 2nd dog, bails on pigs over 80kgs" etc. There are videos of Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars. |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 20:44:33 GMT
One thing about pigs in Australia is that at their biggest they get to be around 250lbs, a good-sized hog will be 180-220lbs. However we know they can lug any size boar since we have seen it with our eyeballs with Dogos and imported Russian boars in Argentina. Now, when a Dogo lugs a big Russian, it ain't stopping shit for a while, it needs a fair bit of time. They get dragged around and have to hang.
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Post by bongoeurycerus on Nov 26, 2023 21:06:08 GMT
wermthewerm bongoeurycerus What do you think the sweet spot would be for dog vs cervid/bovid? As far as actual killing is concerned. werm has already dealt with the cervids; for bovids I am honestly exactly sure. There is a matchup of a 30-35 kg Alano against a 60 kg bushbuck on another forum, this a terrible mismatch since the antelope is hardly twice the size and even though there is an account a particularly large male bushbuck fending off a young hyena the dog wins the vast majority of the time, it will lug the antelope, at which point it has no chance to assume a defensive posture.  < this the size comparison; ~60 cm dog and ~80 cm antelope. Anyways, the best bovid against domestic canid match is likely to be a bulldog of some 30-40 kg and between a rather aggressive or combative bovid around 150 to 200 kg. In this, the dog can lug and still control the ungulate but is liable to get tossed, but this would depend on the species, for oryx have notably killed spotted hyaenas, AWDs and leopards by spearing them on their rapier-like horns, this would be extremely dangerous for the bull dog. However an anoa is likely not very dangerous. |
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 21:43:34 GMT
My biggest disagreement with you and Dale is claiming that a good Boarhound can subjugate any Bovine or any Boar. Yes, the people who sell these Dogs sometimes puts "LUGS ANY HOG ONE ON ONE" on their description, but that's what advertisers do, hype up their products, they aren't objective. Not denying that these Dogs can perform very well when hunting Boar. But i don't get the taking ads at face value and claiming that now means a Bull Arab would subjugate a Ussuri Boar. But they aren't advertisers, they aren't even dog breeders, this is important information. Most pig dogs are a "lug any hog 1 on 1" dog. You will also get dogs who "lugs hard with 2nd dog, bails on pigs over 80kgs" etc. There are videos of Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars. How aren't they advertisers? Im meaning those websites in which X dog has Y price, a buy button and "lugs any Boar one on one" on the description Post those videos of "Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars.", not denying they could be real but i would first like evidence |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 21:48:29 GMT
But they aren't advertisers, they aren't even dog breeders, this is important information. Most pig dogs are a "lug any hog 1 on 1" dog. You will also get dogs who "lugs hard with 2nd dog, bails on pigs over 80kgs" etc. There are videos of Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars. How aren't they advertisers? Im meaning those websites in which X dog has Y price, a buy button and "lugs any Boar one on one" on the description Post those videos of "Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars.", not denying they could be real but i would first like evidence Did you see my Dogo montage? I can give timestamps but it's pretty obvious which boars are the big Russians. It's 30 minutes long. |
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 21:49:15 GMT
That Bull wasn't trying very hard to begin with. As shown by it not moving a lot or trying to thrown them in the Air and impale them with it's horns as an actual comitted Bull would do. It's more of a "I don't care, leave me alone" thing. If the Bull thought it was about to die it's behaviour would change very quickly Also, we are talking about a single Dog A bull can only throw a dog if it does something wrong and is small enough, like the young dumb pup sent sailing by the big bull. 2 good 80lbs Alanos have a spanish bull on lock, no matter how many shit gripping dogs can get ravaged by a spanish bull. I saw a puma beat the shit out of 6 Dogals and a Dogo with 1 arm. Is that what will happen most of the time if even just 2 decent 80-100lbs gripping dogs get a hold of your average puma in Argentina? Absolutely not. No. A Dog doesn't need to be small for a Bull to do that, historical account: “Next to this building, a very entertaining spectacle takes place, a hunt for bulls, which are very robust; They are fattened there and are notable for the strength of their heads and chests; Large and brave dogs are urged against them, which, already ferocious and terrible [...] they rush against the dogs with great ferocity, breathing fire from their noses, wounding the earth with their hooves and making the sand fly into the air, they always show their foreheads and wound the enemies with their horns and attack them with such force that with their hurting horns they throw them very high into the air and pick them up with the tips of the horns when they fall." |
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 21:51:34 GMT
How aren't they advertisers? Im meaning those websites in which X dog has Y price, a buy button and "lugs any Boar one on one" on the description Post those videos of "Dogos slugging it out with huge Russian boars.", not denying they could be real but i would first like evidence Did you see my Dogo montage? I can give timestamps but it's pretty obvious which boars are the big Russians. It's 30 minutes long. Alright, give me the link (i haven't seen it) and timestamps |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 26, 2023 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by s on Nov 26, 2023 22:07:59 GMT
Impressive feats by the Dogos i admit. Doesn't change the fact that with the big ones it's the Boar that's dominating and throwing the Dogo around, not viceversa. |
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