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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:12:14 GMT
If you ask me Alaskan Moose, Wild Yak and maybe Gaur are the toughest Ungulates i can see a Lion or Bengal Tiger beating more often than not "Subjugating" is a very broad word. Subduing an extremely overweight, therefore with terrible stamina and unagressive cattle bull is going to be much easier than subjugating a Cape Buffalo, despite them being about the same weight. It's nearly impossible to subjugate a Cape Buffalo without killing (duh) or seriously wounding him. And gripping dogs are pretty bad at doing both of those things due to their short teeth. Same goes with Yak, Domesticated Yak are preyed on quite comfortably by Snow Leopards, while Wild ones at least put up a fight. Putting Boar on the same tier as Bison and Moose is an extremely bad take as well 4 Iberian Wolves (smallish Wolf sub-species) defeating a Boar without much difficulty. 2-3 are enough to do it i guess. I don't see 2-3 smallish Wolves being enough for a Moose or let alone Bison. Subjugating a Spanish Fighting Bull is nearly impossible, many Bullfight they fought until dying from blood loss rather than giving up. They aren't called "Toros Bravos" (Brave Bulls) for no reason. There are accounts of them being hitted by Crossbow arrows or stung by the Knights' Lances and not only not causing them to be "Subjugated", but becoming even angrier and making it even harder to get close to them. es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toros_c%C3%A9lebresYou can see lots of cases of bleeding out Lidia Bulls fighting until dying here. Spanish fighting bulls are most likely THE hardest Bovine to subjugate. With insane pain tolerance. If 1-2 Alanos would have been enough to subjugate it then only 1-2 Alanos would have been used in those Bullfights from centuries ago since expectators prefer an epic and even out fight. In reality homever 5-7 Alanos were used. Alano is a very strong dog breed. I favour them over Pitbulls and Dogos. But they have their limits like all animals, closest thing i Was able to find to a single Alano """subjugating""" a fighting bull was one of them solving a dispute between 2 Bulls that were fighting each other by staying in the middle. But that's not """subjugating""" even in the broadest definition, it's simply conflict resolution through a third party. Those wolves attacked that boar in the most cowardly way possible and there were 4 of them, that boar was a bit small too. Those are cows in that tier with the boar. I believe a prime male sus scrofa presents a similar level of challenge to a cow bison, but the moose deserves more credit. I might favor a cow bison over a bull moose tbh (maybe not), but in terms of subjugation difficulty the moose is definitely higher. A bull bison or bull moose or fighting bull... stuff of that nature is harder than a boar sure. But they don't use 5-7. Nobody does. You and I saw a video of 2 Alanos subjugate a fighting bull to which you gave a ridiculous illusional story. I have dug up some clips and put them together for you and nowhere in the bulldog's bull catching past time do I see any more than 3 dogs. streamable.com/jt8svrThe most I have ever seen period is 4. Don't tell me those bulldogs were actually half dead and got gored to death somehow. That was really, really weird and hilarious and ridiculous. Also a spanish fighting bull can fuck 7 Alanos. That doesn't mean 1 good Alano can't do it -  The one in the picture isn't being "subjugated", heck doesn't even look like Alano is seriously attacking. There wasn't "Subjugation" of the Bull in that video against the 2 Alanos either. They are called Brave Bulls for a reason, they usually need to be killed or seriously injured to "Subjugate" it |
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Post by Bolushi on Sept 2, 2023 17:16:57 GMT
Those wolves attacked that boar in the most cowardly way possible and there were 4 of them, that boar was a bit small too. Those are cows in that tier with the boar. I believe a prime male sus scrofa presents a similar level of challenge to a cow bison, but the moose deserves more credit. I might favor a cow bison over a bull moose tbh (maybe not), but in terms of subjugation difficulty the moose is definitely higher. A bull bison or bull moose or fighting bull... stuff of that nature is harder than a boar sure. But they don't use 5-7. Nobody does. You and I saw a video of 2 Alanos subjugate a fighting bull to which you gave a ridiculous illusional story. I have dug up some clips and put them together for you and nowhere in the bulldog's bull catching past time do I see any more than 3 dogs. streamable.com/jt8svrThe most I have ever seen period is 4. Don't tell me those bulldogs were actually half dead and got gored to death somehow. That was really, really weird and hilarious and ridiculous. Also a spanish fighting bull can fuck 7 Alanos. That doesn't mean 1 good Alano can't do it - The one in the picture isn't being "subjugated", heck doesn't even look like Alano is attacking. There wasn't "Subjugation" of the Bull in that video against the 2 Alanos either. They are called Brave Bulls for a reason, they usually need to be killed or seriously injured to "Subjugate" it That Alano is in the process of subjugating. It may not have been accomplished yet, it doesn't look like it, but there is one Alano and rogue pissed off fighting cattle. There is only one way the interaction goes and that is a subjugated bull. Also yes it was. That video is the definition of subjugation. |
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:18:41 GMT
The one in the picture isn't being "subjugated", heck doesn't even look like Alano is attacking. There wasn't "Subjugation" of the Bull in that video against the 2 Alanos either. They are called Brave Bulls for a reason, they usually need to be killed or seriously injured to "Subjugate" it That Alano is in the process of subjugating. It may not have been accomplished yet, it doesn't look like it, but there is one Alano and rogue pissed off fighting cattle. There is only one way the interaction goes and that is a subjugated bull. Nope, this is a very good article. Fights between 4-7 Alanos and Fighting Bulls have gone both ways. |
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:24:40 GMT
Example of Bull victory:
"This engraving shows a panoramic view of Seville outside the walls, seen from the southeast, highlighting the slaughterhouse in the center of the image, an elongated nave with arches. Next to the building Hoefnagel draws a scene in which several men, armed with spears and assisted by dogs, are preparing to hunt some loose bulls. Attached to the plate were some comments from the author himself: “Next to this building, a very entertaining spectacle takes place, a hunt for bulls, which are very robust; They are fattened there and are notable for the strength of their heads and chests; Large and brave dogs are urged against them, which, already ferocious and terrible, usually take out before they are killed, so that they rush against the dogs with great ferocity, breathing fire from their noses, wounding the earth with their hooves and making the sand fly into the air, they always show their foreheads and wound the enemies with their horns and attack them with such force that with their wounding horns they throw them very high into the air and pick them up with the tips of the horns when they fall ”.
Dog victory:
In three chapters of the "Libro de la Montería" by Alfonso XI of Castile, El Justiciero (1311-1350), published in 1582 by Argote de Molina (1549-1596), reference is made to the hunting of wild bulls with dogs, during the 16th century, and when describing some bullfighting festivals he says: "...Lately they have released alanos who, taking hold of them, hold them and make (The Bulls) surrender..."
“ When the most vigorous bulls have tired everyone, the King orders six large mastiffs to be brought to him, which the City raises and trains expressly to fight with them. As soon as they are loose, they throw themselves at the bull, clinging to its ears or grabbing its throat. In my opinion, this is the best part of the party, because as he is very restrained, he makes a thousand efforts to separate them, making them jump through the air in a way that always produces great pleasure.”
"The ferocity of some “tooth dogs” as they were known, regardless of their size, was such that it could be said that they competed in brute and canine bravery, as recounted by an eyewitness at some San Fermín bullfights in 1628: “They released another bull, and they threw four greyhounds so small that they looked like gozques. They charged with notable bravery, but the bull's bravery was so great that it turned them all over countless times, treating them so badly that I thought they were dead; But their determination was so great that they defeated the ferocious animal; "Dogs can do so much if bred for that!"
Im not denying Alanos can't subjugate Fighting Bulls, just that it isn't a 100% guarantee
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:31:22 GMT
Another account
"…I figure for you how a bull sweats in the arena, who has had an Alano let loose on him
But with the part that remains free he defends himself,
but throwing another one (Alano) he surrenders and, with equal fatigue, leads them both hanging by their ears as if torn off."
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:32:27 GMT
Actually i have changed my mind while researching this, 2 good Alanos, one attacking the back and the other attacking the Front have a fighting chance, but for a semi-guarantee i guess 4 or so are needed, one per each leg
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 17:34:35 GMT
Large bovines aren't that good at fighting small but agressive animals. Since they are more agile and can dodge attacks more easily. Despite being much smaller i reckon a Snow Leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a Lion.
Clarification: joke, im aware Snow Leopard's weaponry is far less formidable and he is much more fragile.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Sept 2, 2023 17:47:23 GMT
Large bovines aren't that good at fighting small but agressive animals. Since they are more agile and can dodge attacks more easily. Despite being much smaller i reckon a Snow Leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a Lion. ''Despite being much smaller, I reckon a snow leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a lion.'' That's a joke right? You don't seriously mean that. |
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Post by Bolushi on Sept 2, 2023 17:58:10 GMT
Large bovines aren't that good at fighting small but agressive animals. Since they are more agile and can dodge attacks more easily. Despite being much smaller i reckon a Snow Leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a Lion. ''Despite being much smaller, I reckon a snow leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a lion.'' That's a joke right? You don't seriously mean that. He's literally throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Like, he's making up random dumb ideas and all of them are ridiculous. Now I'm confused how to respond besides "how about no?". |
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Post by s on Sept 2, 2023 18:01:58 GMT
Large bovines aren't that good at fighting small but agressive animals. Since they are more agile and can dodge attacks more easily. Despite being much smaller i reckon a Snow Leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a Lion. ''Despite being much smaller, I reckon a snow leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a lion.'' That's a joke right? You don't seriously mean that. 99% a joke since Lion can do much more damage and get to the Bull's back in one go but Snow Leopard are indeed very formidable for their size against Bovines. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Sept 2, 2023 18:16:16 GMT
''Despite being much smaller, I reckon a snow leopard has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a lion.'' That's a joke right? You don't seriously mean that. 99% a joke since Lion can do much more damage and get to the Bull's back in one go but Snow Leopard are indeed very formidable for their size against Bovines. ''...snow leopards are indeed very formidable for their size against cattle.'' That doesn't change the fact that the statement you made was wrong. A snow leopard having a better chance against the most fighting-spirited cattle type with forward-pointing horns than a lion 3-5 times its own size? Nah, where's the logic? ''A smaller cat is less likely to get hit, and more likely to dodge the bull's attacks''? Is that it? That would be laughable. To help you understand just how shocking your statement was to me, I would make the snow leopard take the role of the lion in this case, and another cat take the role of the snow leopard. That would be the equivalent of me saying: ''Large cattle aren't that good at fighting small, but aggressive animals, since they are more agile and can dodge attacks more easily. Despite being much smaller I reckon a serval has a far better chance against a fighting bull than a snow leopard.'' You want to know why? A serval is much smaller, less likely to get hit than the snow leopard. That's just how shocking your statement was, to be honest. No way a snow leopard will ever stand the slimmest chance against this: redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=7294638&u=https%3A//tienphong.vn/kinh-hoang-le-hoi-dua-bo-tot-o-tay-ban-nha-post705614.tpo |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Sept 2, 2023 18:23:03 GMT
s I'm glad you admitted it was a joke, anyways.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Sept 2, 2023 18:27:02 GMT
Am I the only one seeing it, or does that bull attacking the humans look like it has numbers and other stuff embedded into its skin?
Straaaange.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Sept 2, 2023 18:32:54 GMT
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:  Anyone else see a ''5'' and ''8'' on the bull? Almost as if it's been tattooed beneath its fur? |
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Post by Bolushi on Sept 2, 2023 18:34:48 GMT
Here's an example of what I'm talking about: Anyone else see a ''5'' and ''8'' on the bull? Almost as if it's been tattooed beneath its fur? I think it's the primitive method of tagging cattle. |
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