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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 2:17:48 GMT
i don't think there's much to say in regards to cougar vs dogo. Everyone should know the rule by now, 50-115 pounds is dog territory, 120 pounds is a middle ground and anything above that is cat territory. 120lbs is 55kg, Dogos definitely aren't meant to be that heavy, their extra weight comes at the expense of functionality and stamina. In fact, Dogos are meant to be 40kg. I have seen Argentinian hunters say that a 40kg Dogo is usually preferable to a 45-50kg heavy Dogo, which gets tired more easily, is less agile and is harder to mantain in very fit state with low body fat. except they are. 120 pound functional dogos exist, Argentinian hunters preferring 40kg dogos over 50kg ones is completely irrelevant, both have way more stamina than a cougar. Anything above that though, yes i agree, they are cat food. |
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Post by Shortridge on Oct 14, 2023 19:27:09 GMT
Well matchups are interesting and open to debate since it's hypothetical and we have to consider some factors (gender, age, origin, ...). In this case I would say the gorilla should win more often than considering it's a fight as in a cage unlike in the wild where leopards ambush gorillas. The biggest leopards (from Central Africa, Kenyan highlands and North Africa) are big and powerful to kill any gorilla in a straight up fight. But an African leopard can also be a South African one in the Cape weighing just 30kg which wouldn't stand a chance. Smallest vs smallest: gorilla wins Average vs average: gorilla wins Biggest vs biggest: leopard wins The biggest leopards enter a different class (hunter Almeida categorised jaguars based on skull size for example). After huge there are the monster specimens and those leopards will absolutely kill any gorilla. A Persian and Sri Lankan monster male would do so too but it's the African leopard only in this case. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 20:08:21 GMT
Y'know, I expected from my experiences with Bagheera that you would be a leopard fanboy.
Glad to see that's not the case.
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Post by Shortridge on Oct 14, 2023 20:15:55 GMT
Y'know, I expected from my experiences with Bagheera that you would be a leopard fanboy. Glad to see that's not the case. There's a difference between a fanboy and an enthusiast. People like Pantherine who call 'their' animal overpowered must be considered a fanboy/girl or fanatic. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2023 3:57:46 GMT
Well matchups are interesting and open to debate since it's hypothetical and we have to consider some factors (gender, age, origin, ...). In this case I would say the gorilla should win more often than considering it's a fight as in a cage unlike in the wild where leopards ambush gorillas. The biggest leopards (from Central Africa, Kenyan highlands and North Africa) are big and powerful to kill any gorilla in a straight up fight. But an African leopard can also be a South African one in the Cape weighing just 30kg which wouldn't stand a chance. Smallest vs smallest: gorilla wins Average vs average: gorilla wins Biggest vs biggest: leopard wins The biggest leopards enter a different class (hunter Almeida categorised jaguars based on skull size for example). After huge there are the monster specimens and those leopards will absolutely kill any gorilla. A Persian and Sri Lankan monster male would do so too but it's the African leopard only in this case. pretty good analogy. Although, no, Almeida did not only categorise his jaguars via skull size.   |
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Post by s on Oct 16, 2023 6:55:19 GMT
120lbs is 55kg, Dogos definitely aren't meant to be that heavy, their extra weight comes at the expense of functionality and stamina. In fact, Dogos are meant to be 40kg. I have seen Argentinian hunters say that a 40kg Dogo is usually preferable to a 45-50kg heavy Dogo, which gets tired more easily, is less agile and is harder to mantain in very fit state with low body fat. Dogos can definitely be 120lbs, even 130lbs (anything above 130lbs should be shot). For a Dogo vs cougar discussion that is an advantage, since the cat can't match the dog's stamina anyway. In realistic hunting applications, such big dogs are only good for jogging up to the fight and shutting down a feisty boar or puma. They're ONLY drop dogs, and share more in common with Presas and Corsos than 40kg Dogos. Hunters want their Dogs to be in a great physical state with minimal body fat %, that is much harder to achieve with a 50kg Dogo than with a 40kg one, most of the extra weight is going to be fat. 55kg Dogos aren't even mentioned because at that point you are looking at something closer to a Rottweiler than to a 40kg Dogo. Just like fat "new-type" Presas are closer to Rottweilers than to original Presas. |
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Post by Shortridge on Oct 17, 2023 19:17:32 GMT
Well matchups are interesting and open to debate since it's hypothetical and we have to consider some factors (gender, age, origin, ...). In this case I would say the gorilla should win more often than considering it's a fight as in a cage unlike in the wild where leopards ambush gorillas. The biggest leopards (from Central Africa, Kenyan highlands and North Africa) are big and powerful to kill any gorilla in a straight up fight. But an African leopard can also be a South African one in the Cape weighing just 30kg which wouldn't stand a chance. Smallest vs smallest: gorilla wins Average vs average: gorilla wins Biggest vs biggest: leopard wins The biggest leopards enter a different class (hunter Almeida categorised jaguars based on skull size for example). After huge there are the monster specimens and those leopards will absolutely kill any gorilla. A Persian and Sri Lankan monster male would do so too but it's the African leopard only in this case. pretty good analogy. Although, no, Almeida did not only categorise his jaguars via skull size. It's definitely ranked according to their skull score. For example, there's a 106kg male in the "huge class" and a 106kg male in the "monster class". There's even a smaller male in the "monster class" because he looked at the skull score. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2023 23:07:55 GMT
pretty good analogy. Although, no, Almeida did not only categorise his jaguars via skull size. It's definitely ranked according to their skull score. For example, there's a 106kg male in the "huge class" and a 106kg male in the "monster class". There's even a smaller male in the "monster class" because he looked at the skull score. yeah, just noticed that |
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Post by grampa on Oct 20, 2023 6:19:15 GMT
Eastern lowland gorilla vs African leopard face-to-face.
Smallest silverback vs smallest leopard - victorious gorilla.
Medium silverback vs medium leopard - victorious gorilla.
Biggest silverback vs biggest leopard - victorious gorilla.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 17:22:37 GMT
Well matchups are interesting and open to debate since it's hypothetical and we have to consider some factors (gender, age, origin, ...). In this case I would say the gorilla should win more often than considering it's a fight as in a cage unlike in the wild where leopards ambush gorillas. The biggest leopards (from Central Africa, Kenyan highlands and North Africa) are big and powerful to kill any gorilla in a straight up fight. But an African leopard can also be a South African one in the Cape weighing just 30kg which wouldn't stand a chance. Smallest vs smallest: gorilla wins Average vs average: gorilla wins Biggest vs biggest: leopard wins The biggest leopards enter a different class (hunter Almeida categorised jaguars based on skull size for example). After huge there are the monster specimens and those leopards will absolutely kill any gorilla. A Persian and Sri Lankan monster male would do so too but it's the African leopard only in this case. Why does leopard win at biggest vs biggest? The largest leopard was just short of 100 kg iirc, the largest verified mountain gorilla (which are smaller than Grauer's gorilla) weighed 267 kg, but the weight of gorillas isn't well studied, and I presume specimens close to 300 kg may have existed before. |
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Post by Shortridge on Dec 10, 2023 0:20:07 GMT
Well matchups are interesting and open to debate since it's hypothetical and we have to consider some factors (gender, age, origin, ...). In this case I would say the gorilla should win more often than considering it's a fight as in a cage unlike in the wild where leopards ambush gorillas. The biggest leopards (from Central Africa, Kenyan highlands and North Africa) are big and powerful to kill any gorilla in a straight up fight. But an African leopard can also be a South African one in the Cape weighing just 30kg which wouldn't stand a chance. Smallest vs smallest: gorilla wins Average vs average: gorilla wins Biggest vs biggest: leopard wins The biggest leopards enter a different class (hunter Almeida categorised jaguars based on skull size for example). After huge there are the monster specimens and those leopards will absolutely kill any gorilla. A Persian and Sri Lankan monster male would do so too but it's the African leopard only in this case. Why does leopard win at biggest vs biggest? The largest leopard was just short of 100 kg iirc, the largest verified mountain gorilla (which are smaller than Grauer's gorilla) weighed 267 kg, but the weight of gorillas isn't well studied, and I presume specimens close to 300 kg may have existed before. Because those leopards are in a different cat tier, together with large male jaguars and small adult lionesses/tigresses. At this stage it's powerful enough to deal with any silverback IMO. Also, there's a confirmed 100kg Persian leopard but I suppose we can stick with the 96kg maximum for an African leopard. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2023 1:02:34 GMT
Why does leopard win at biggest vs biggest? The largest leopard was just short of 100 kg iirc, the largest verified mountain gorilla (which are smaller than Grauer's gorilla) weighed 267 kg, but the weight of gorillas isn't well studied, and I presume specimens close to 300 kg may have existed before. Because those leopards are in a different cat tier, together with large male jaguars and small adult lionesses/tigresses. At this stage it's powerful enough to deal with any silverback IMO. Also, there's a confirmed 100kg Persian leopard but I suppose we can stick with the 96kg maximum for an African leopard. And 267 kg gorillas aren't in a different tier from 159 kg gorillas? |
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Post by Shortridge on Dec 10, 2023 2:20:10 GMT
Because those leopards are in a different cat tier, together with large male jaguars and small adult lionesses/tigresses. At this stage it's powerful enough to deal with any silverback IMO. Also, there's a confirmed 100kg Persian leopard but I suppose we can stick with the 96kg maximum for an African leopard. And 267 kg gorillas aren't in a different tier from 159 kg gorillas? How about you put them in a tier? Their weight seems to fall within male lion, male tiger and bear tier. Are they in that tier? Being in that tier means they are at least as powerful and they can kill each other. So if the answer is no, then you need to put the gorilla in the right tier. |
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