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Post by Hardcastle on Aug 21, 2023 17:26:35 GMT
Quote; You can clearly see that the jaguar looks more husky, and has a noticeably bigger head. They appear to be of similar length (it's not easy to know because of the camera angle, but it sure looks like that to me). I know these are cubs, but it’s still a good representative of what these 2 cats will look like when they are adults. IMO, the best way to compare two quadruped animals of different species is at equal HBL (head and body length). The leopard and the jaguar are pretty much equal in HBL. The jaguar's superior strength is clearly seen in his greater girth. How the leopard and cougar compare I'm unsure. I'd be surprised if even big jaguars weren't shorter in head and body length than large specimens of both leopards and pumas. I could be wrong, but to my eye they seem very compact while leopards and pumas both seem quite long. Maybe someone has data/measurements on this? |
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Post by grampa on Aug 21, 2023 18:50:47 GMT
Quote; You can clearly see that the jaguar looks more husky, and has a noticeably bigger head. They appear to be of similar length (it's not easy to know because of the camera angle, but it sure looks like that to me). I know these are cubs, but it’s still a good representative of what these 2 cats will look like when they are adults. IMO, the best way to compare two quadruped animals of different species is at equal HBL (head and body length). The leopard and the jaguar are pretty much equal in HBL. The jaguar's superior strength is clearly seen in his greater girth. How the leopard and cougar compare I'm unsure. I'd be surprised if even big jaguars weren't shorter in head and body length than large specimens of both leopards and pumas. I could be wrong, but to my eye they seem very compact while leopards and pumas both seem quite long. Maybe someone has data/measurements on this? Maybe, but girth gives the impression of having a short back, given it a compact appearance. If they have the same number of vertebra, then we cannot refer to one being short-backed. HBL would vary from individual to individual. But, I suspect they are pretty much equal on average. |
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Post by grampa on Aug 25, 2023 10:42:49 GMT
I found this:  |
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Post by grampa on Aug 25, 2023 10:58:51 GMT
Comparing Jaguar vs Leopard a-z-animals.com/blog/leopard-vs-jaguar-the-7-key-differences/ 2. Leopard vs Jaguar: Size While the animals share the same general height, the jaguar is a bit taller at the shoulder. The jaguar is the noticeably bulkier feline. Male jaguars can weigh up to 265 pounds. The male leopard tops out at 175. Female jaguars tend to be at least 10 percent lighter than males. The female leopard is about 30 percent lighter than the males. 4. Leopard vs Jaguar: Body Length & Shape Leopards have leaner, longer bodies. A slender build that’s slighter than the jaguar. With their long tail and body slenderness, the leopard has greater agility, is better at climbing, and tends to run faster. Jaguars are stocky, broad-shouldered, and muscular. But they are more compact with barrel abdomens that make them appear well fed or pregnant. ______________________________________ No, jaguars do not have shorter backs... vertebrae of mammals - ecoevocommunity.nature.com/posts/48312-on-the-backs-of-mammals-evolutionary-constraint-in-the-evolution-of-the-mammalian-vertebral-column#:~:text=In%20this%20case%2C%20humans%20are Consistency in the number of thoracic and lumbar vertebrae is not quite as stark as in the neck and there are a larger number of exceptions, but the majority of mammals possess 19 or 20, for a total of 26 or 27 “CTL” vertebrae (for “Cervical, Thoracic, and Lumbar” vertebrae). In this case, humans are actually one of the exceptions (we have 24), but most mammals – including animals as diverse as most rodents, rabbits, deer, kangaroos, koalas, cows, monkeys, and others – all have 26 CTL vertebrae while dogs, cats, bears, weasels, otters, and their relatives all have 27. There is little variation in these numbers either within species or across different species, even different species separated by over 160 million years of evolution. ________________________ This shows me that comparing mammals at equal HBL is an absolutely fair way to determine which animal has the greater girth. That which has the greater girth will invariably possess the greater weight and strength. The age-old excuse of, "a bear has a shorter back than a tiger" or "a gorilla has a shorter back than a lion" just doesn't hold water. It is the superior girth that gives the impression of a compact body with a short back. |
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kevin
Ruminant
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Post by kevin on Aug 25, 2023 21:56:26 GMT
Cougar vs jaguar is anything but close. justpaste.it/7zvshEven at similar size, the jaguar has more powerfully built shoulders, forelimbs, wider paws and more robust backs. A pantanal Jag is out of reach. |
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Post by Bolushi on Aug 26, 2023 17:30:54 GMT
Cougar vs jaguar is anything but close. justpaste.it/7zvshEven at similar size, the jaguar has more powerfully built shoulders, forelimbs, wider paws and more robust backs. A pantanal Jag is out of reach. I do believe it's closer than it seems on paper, due to the unique kind of fight that is cat vs cat. Strength isn't quite as important as it would be otherwise. Though yeah in a fight to the death the jaguar will win the grapple and be far more likely to win IMO. Supercat does a good job, to me, at explaining why the cougar would put up one hell of a fight though. It won't just be the cougar getting manhandled and its skull crushed at parity. Will be a big deal to kill a cougar for a similarly sized jag. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 26, 2023 19:09:04 GMT
Actually, Bolushi , I've kind of changed my mind on the fight, even at mass parity as can be seen in the previous page (Page 6). I however still maintain that ONLY the jaguar is pound for pound stronger than the cougar. I can't say the same for lions and tigers. And sure as hell, not leopards. I'm not exactly saying that a cougar is pound for pound stronger than these 3 cats, more like a fight between a cougar and anyone of them is like a 50-50. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 23:54:33 GMT
I however still maintain that ONLY the jaguar is pound for pound stronger than the cougar. I can't say the same for lions and tigers. **And sure as hell, not leopards.** You're very lucky that Menvidas didn't see/reply to your post, haha. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Aug 28, 2023 7:25:53 GMT
I will say Supercat has the robusticity data on his side for that one. Of all the results in the robusticity study the puma surprised me the most.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 28, 2023 8:29:55 GMT
I however still maintain that ONLY the jaguar is pound for pound stronger than the cougar. I can't say the same for lions and tigers. **And sure as hell, not leopards.** You're very lucky that Menvidas didn't see/reply to your post, haha. What do you mean? He most likely saw it. It was there for some time. And even if he did, what's the biggie? I can very easily defend that statement. I have sources and logic to back me up on that. I will shout it out again: COUGARS ARE NOT INFERIOR TO LIONS, TIGERS, AND AS SURE AS THE RISING OF THE SUN, NOT LEOPARDS AT EQUAL BODY MASSES. There, how do you like it now? |
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Post by grampa on Aug 28, 2023 9:28:12 GMT
Quote; "I will shout it out again: COUGARS ARE NOT INFERIOR TO LIONS, TIGERS, AND AS SURE AS THE RISING OF THE SUN, NOT LEOPARDS AT EQUAL BODY MASSES."
*To see the truth visually, compare them at equal HBL (head and body length). If there is a significant difference in girth, you can see it.
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