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Post by Bolushi on Jun 1, 2023 16:41:57 GMT
Maybe the jaguar's superior strength, stamina and resilience at parity doesn't come into play as much in a ritualized cat fight as much as it does in a prolonged ravaging by a bulldog. Hence why the comparison is perhaps not as relevant as we would think. Which means at parity a jaguar and cougar would prefer to not fight much unless the jaguar was bigger. Could also be cougars changing activity patterns as they are prone to do.
I don't think a big cougar would kill a jaguar though. It would never commit. Otherwise I would assume we would see cougar ambush on small Mexican jaguars. On the contrary however, a bigger jaguar would crush a smaller cougar as we have seen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2023 17:19:59 GMT
I do think the cougar could fend off the jaguar for a bit before being killed - maybe 10-20 mins? Depends. I'd still favour the jaguar 10/10 times though. But it wouldn't be a quick one-round knockout.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jun 2, 2023 10:19:13 GMT
It's amazing that the jaguar consistently failed to kill the cougar even though it got it underneath. Suppose that was a cheetah for example, then the jaguar obviously would have ended it. But the fact that the puma gave it trouble says a whole lot. Did it give it trouble? To me it seemed like the cougar was shitting itself on the ground the whole time. "Gave it trouble" in the sense that the cougar didn't make biting the skull an easy task. Obviously, the jaguar was trying to put the cougar down for good, but the cougar put some obstacle on its path. That's what I mean by "gave it trouble", not that the cougar was making the jaguar feel scared or anything like that. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jun 2, 2023 10:34:37 GMT
The jaguar ran away because it saw things were not going well for it. Sure, it didn't mean it would lose if it stayed on fighting, but that a cougar can put a jaguar on the run is amazing. I mean I could bitch-slap a lion with a sandal and make it run away shitting itself. Does that mean I could whoop its ass if it remained in its defensive position? No way in hell. Besides it isn't really amazing in this context. The jaguar had the cougar on the ground and then eventually let the cougar up and left the scene. Didn't really make it "flee". "I mean, I could bitch-slap a lion with a sandal and make it run away sitting itself." I'd really love to see you try. Well, at the end, the video most likely doesn't matter seeing that it looked organised/created, and didn't look like a real life interaction between the 2 cats. So, I think we should stop dwelling on it. It probably isn't real. This right here is a video of a real interaction: In this video, notice how no cat made any physical contact with the other, proof that they both know that if they got serious and went all out, they BOTH (including the jaguar) would end up seriously injured. Yes, it's the cougar that ran away, but it's very clear why it did that. It didn't have anything to fight for, while the jaguar did. So, it wouldn’t be smart for the cougar to have fought. If we swapped the roles of the 2 cats, I assure you the ending would have been the reverse: the cougar putting the jaguar on the run. They've done it to grizzly bears, they can do it to a similar-sized cat. Also notice that the cougar had the audacity to stop running at a point and turn back to give some growls at the jaguar. If the cougar didn't know it could put up a fight (if push came to shove), it would just have kept running and never dared to stop and look back. This is also in an encounter where the cougar is the one who is expected to call it quits, an encounter where it's the jaguar that has something to fight for. This video is undeniable proof that a parity fight is close and not one-sided. As I said before, I still favour the jaguar ultimately. The only thing I'm saying is that a fight at the same weight/mass IS VERY CLOSE, and isn't as one-sided as what many people believe. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 2, 2023 11:38:08 GMT
I mean I could bitch-slap a lion with a sandal and make it run away shitting itself. Does that mean I could whoop its ass if it remained in its defensive position? No way in hell. Besides it isn't really amazing in this context. The jaguar had the cougar on the ground and then eventually let the cougar up and left the scene. Didn't really make it "flee". "I mean, I could bitch-slap a lion with a sandal and make it run away sitting itself." I'd really love to see you try. Well, at the end, the video most likely doesn't matter seeing that it looked organised/created, and didn't look like a real life interaction between the 2 cats. So, I think we should stop dwelling on it. It probably isn't real. This right here is a video of a real interaction: In this video, notice how no cat made any physical contact with the other, proof that they both know that if they got serious and went all out, they BOTH (including the jaguar) would end up seriously injured. Yes, it's the cougar that ran away, but it's very clear why it did that. It didn't have anything to fight for, while the jaguar did. So, it wouldn’t be smart for the cougar to have fought. If we swapped the roles of the 2 cats, I assure you the ending would have been the reverse: the cougar putting the jaguar on the run. They've done it to grizzly bears, they can do it to a similar-sized cat. Also notice that the cougar had the audacity to stop running at a point and turn back to give some growls at the jaguar. If the cougar didn't know it could put up a fight (if push came to shove), it would just have kept running and never dared to stop and look back. This is also in an encounter where the cougar is the one who is expected to call it quits, an encounter where it's the jaguar that has something to fight for. This video is undeniable proof that a parity fight is close and not one-sided. As I said before, I still favour the jaguar ultimately. The only thing I'm saying is that a fight at the same weight/mass IS VERY CLOSE, and isn't as one-sided as what many people believe. I can promise you that video is not a real or natural interaction. That is "mutual of omaha's Wild Kingdom" which is notorious for its staged animal videos. All the different camera angles and cuts and etc should have been a give away. They literally put a tame jaguar and tame cougar in the same area and filmed them interacting, then did it again, and again, and again. And in the end edited and pieced a story together with the chopped up pieces of footage. If anyone ever captures a REAL interaction on film, it will likely be HUGE news and it will probably come from the BBC or someone like that. There will be one continuous camera angle with no cuts. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jun 2, 2023 12:25:28 GMT
Hardcastle do you mean the first or second video I posted?
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 2, 2023 12:40:26 GMT
Well both are staged, but the second video is what I was talking about this time.
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 2, 2023 14:19:34 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 14:33:17 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary? Yes. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 2, 2023 15:01:55 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary? Yes. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk Do they have dracos and a lot of .30s? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 15:03:04 GMT
Yes. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk Do they have dracos and a lot of .30s? No. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 2, 2023 15:12:49 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary? They have field researchers paid to spend months and years crawling around and waiting in the mud to get good footage. Government funded. In recent times I'm sure they also get drone footage. But yeah vast majority of good footage involving any animals comes from the BBC. The BBC have probably captured something if it's worth consideration. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 15:38:38 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary? They have field researchers paid to spend months and years crawling around and waiting in the mud to get good footage. Government funded. In recent times I'm sure they also get drone footage. But yeah vast majority of good footage involving any animals comes from the BBC. The BBC have probably captured something if it's worth consideration. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 16:00:38 GMT
Tbh there's just no argument for the cougar. It holds no advantages, except maybe agility. But that doesn't really mean shit - especially when the opponent holds every other advantage.
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Post by CoolJohnson on Jun 2, 2023 17:22:46 GMT
How does BBC etc. capture their footage? Flying drones around the landscape for years and after gathering tons of footage they make it a documentary? They have field researchers paid to spend months and years crawling around and waiting in the mud to get good footage. Government funded. In recent times I'm sure they also get drone footage. But yeah vast majority of good footage involving any animals comes from the BBC. The BBC have probably captured something if it's worth consideration. BBC has mediocre news reports, but good documentary footage. |
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