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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 19:23:20 GMT
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 19:37:15 GMT
Well, read and analyze all my posts, studies, accounts, predation charts, etc, etc. You will realize how superior gorillas are to leopards. If some of you cant understand none of that, its on you. As for 2 cross river gorillas vs a bengal tiger, mismatch in favor of the gorillas. I would be surprized if the tiger would even fight, just the charge of the gorilla would make it run away. Bengal tigers run away from sloth bears.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 19:51:06 GMT
Well, read and analyze all my posts, studies, accounts, predation charts, etc, etc. You will realize how superior gorillas are to leopards. If some of you cant understand none of that, its on you. As for 2 cross river gorillas vs a bengal tiger, mismatch in favor of the gorillas. I would be surprized if the tiger would even fight, just the charge of the gorilla would make it run away. Bengal tigers run away from sloth bears. I mean Sloth bears are no joke. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 20:02:16 GMT
Well, read and analyze all my posts, studies, accounts, predation charts, etc, etc. You will realize how superior gorillas are to leopards. If some of you cant understand none of that, its on you. As for 2 cross river gorillas vs a bengal tiger, mismatch in favor of the gorillas. I would be surprized if the tiger would even fight, just the charge of the gorilla would make it run away. Bengal tigers run away from sloth bears. I mean Sloth bears are no joke. By the way, why is your text size so large? |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 21, 2023 20:30:31 GMT
I doubt a Gorilla would murder a female Lion. Gorillas already have some difficulty with Leopards since they flee and omit 'fear' odors when they encounter the big cat. Not to mention there are a lot of sources of Gorillas getting predated on by Leopards. Not to mention that Lions can physically wrestle down large prey. I do not think a Gorilla can match this typr of grappling and usage of claws. The "fear odor" is because they are scared for their family, they are moving them to safety. Guess who "fears" who when they are discovered? It doesn't get much clear than this: the coward little kitty: "there are a lot of sources of Gorillas getting predated on by Leopards.: There are rarely of silverbacks, maybe 4/5 at most, and all by ambush or sleeping gorillas BOOK, PRIMATE TO PRIMATE, Educating the Public about Nonhuman Primates and Their Conservation Issues Kristina Cawthon THE EFFECT OF LEOPARD PREDATION ON GORILLA POPULATIONS IS NEGLIGIBLE. (SO SMALL OR UNIMPORTANT AS TO BE NOT WORTH CONSIDERING. INSIGNIFICANT)  books.google.com.ar/books?id=RndMAAAAMAAJ&q=Gorilla+displaced+a+leopard+from+kill&dq=Gorilla+displaced+a+leopard+from+kill&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=yThe average biomass of the gorillas hunted by leopards in Central Gabon was 78 kg (171 lbs). Obviously subadult and female gorillas:  I thing some of you dont know crap about gorilla/leopards interactions, lmao I was referring to this account for Gorillas emitting fear odor.  source: World Atlas of Great Apes and Their Conservation edited by Julian Oliver Caldecott, Lera Miles Here is the main source for Gorillas fleeing Leopards. It noted that the tracks belonged to two male Gorillas, a Silverback and a Blackback.  source: Fay, J. M. R. "Leopard attack on and consumption of gorillas in the Central African Republic." J Hum Evol 29 (1955): 93-99. Here are the recent sources of Leopards killing adult male or silverback gorillas. Two Silverbacks and a Blackback were killed by Leopards. " Leopard predation was strongly suspected in three deaths (although scavenging cannot be ruled out): a silverback in very poor physical condition at Mbeli Bai, a silverback at Bai Hokou, and a blackback at Lossi." A Silverback who lost his females ended up getting killed by a Leopard. " Two cases of group formation were observed at Mbeli Bai, the only site where repeated observations of solitary males were made. Of the nine solitary males, one acquired two females who have subsequently bred, but the other eventually lost all of his females. His body was later found with signs of leopard predation." This study shows how Leopard predation is an important factor in Gorilla mortality. " Given the difficulty of observing predation events, and the slow life histories of gorillas, the discovery of three cases of probable leopard predation suggests that it is an important cause of mortality in certain populations." Robbins, Martha M., et al. "Social structure and life‐history patterns in western gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)." American Journal of Primatology: Official Journal of the American Society of Primatologists 64.2 (2004): 145-159. Here is the case of a an adult male Gorilla that was suspected to have been killed by a Leopard.  Figure 4. YPM MAM 006794 perimortem facial trauma. A. Microfractures and maxilla damage to right side of face. B. Details of orbital fractures. C. Mandible fractures and reconstruction. See text for details. Scale bars equal 1 cm. source: : McRae, Ryan, and Gary P. Aronsen. "Inventory and Assessment of the Gorilla gorilla (Savage, 1847) Skeletal Collection Housed at the Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History." Bulletin of the Peabody Museum of Natural History 59.2 (2018): 199-247. Also the source you mentioned about Leopards predating on Gorillas included all adults. " Remains of gorillas and chimpanzees were found in scats nine and six times respectively. For each species age classification of the consumed individual was possible for three scats. For gorilla, the individuals consumed were adult in all three cases, and for chimpanzee two were adult and one was juvenile." source: Henschel, Philipp, K. A. Abernethy, and L. J. T. White. "Leopard food habits in the Lope National Park, Gabon, Central Africa." African Journal of ecology 43, no. 1 (2005): 21-28. Although the sex of the Gorillas was not identified, the mean weight was corrected for all the large animals by including juveniles. This was based on an older source that included juveniles for the total average:  " For apes, it was assumed that there were two juveniles half the female weight for each male and female." source: White, Lee JT. "Biomass of rain forest mammals in the Lopé Reserve, Gabon." Journal of animal ecology (1994): 499-512. A silverback can beat a Leopard due to the size difference, but will face some difficulty. Once the big cats are scaled up to female Lion or Tiger size, then they are more likely to prevail against the ape. |
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 20:30:42 GMT
I mean Sloth bears are no joke. By the way, why is your text size so large? |
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 20:42:06 GMT
"scats ", just so happens that the "scat" method doesn't prove predation, carnivores most times eat what's already dead, this is something very well known. If you analyze my scat, you will find cow meat, does that mean i killed a cow? Fuck no. Anyways, "adults" dont mean males. Moreover, i already said that there are around4/5 accounts of leopards killing silverbacks, just not head on, i already showed that. To prove predation, the carcass has to be analyzed and have signs of predation. "Scat" method is not reliable to prove predation.b
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 20:47:47 GMT
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 21, 2023 21:46:53 GMT
The average biomass of the gorillas hunted by leopards in Central Gabon was 78 kg (171 lbs). Obviously subadult and female gorillas: I thing some of you dont know crap about gorilla/leopards interactions, lmao "scats ", just so happens that the "scat" method doesn't prove predation, carnivores most times eat what's already dead, this is something very well known. If you analyze my scat, you will find cow meat, does that mean i killed a cow? Fuck no. Anyways, "adults" dont mean males. Moreover, i already said that there are around4/5 accounts of leopards killing silverbacks, just not head on, i already showed that. To prove predation, the carcass has to be analyzed and have signs of predation. "Scat" method is not reliable to prove predation.b So now this dude changed his stance from Leopards hunt "females and juveniles" to "they must have been scavenging" after my correction. Ok, so how will two Gorillas beat a Tiger? Here is a Tiger killing a Buffalo quite easily. How will a Gorilla escape from a Tiger killing it that easy? If the Gorilla dies, its buddy will just panic, beat its chest and emit an odor while fleeing like a biatch in the woods. Prove to me how two Gorillas can win thiz match before becoming panzies or being picked off as a meal. |
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 22:04:55 GMT
Didn't change any stance. I covered everything. You showed me the "scat" method hoping to prove predation and i proved you wrong, scats dont prove predation.
These are 2 gorillas and they work very good together. The kitty cat is getting his skull crushed by the gorilla's canines. "Odor" ? Yeah, you would also emit an "odor" if there was a coward ass ambush predator around trying to kill your whole family, lmao. But what happens when the coward is spotted huh? Who runs like a "bitch", oh yeah here:
How will the gorillas win? I will just copy from page #1, i already posted all the reports and studies about all these advantages:
So, these are the advantages
Tiger:
-speed
-agility
-more aggressive
Cross river gorilla (or any subspecies)
-numbers game, 2 vs 1 in this case
-larger combined weight
-much smarter
-plantigrade
-more stamina
-longer arm span to keep tiger at a distance
-stronger upper body
-more bite force
Yeah guys, the HISTORIC animal, the 2 silverbacks, working together, would burn the striped pussy cat to the ground.
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Post by Bison king on Feb 21, 2023 22:10:45 GMT
I cant prove something to someome who is not open to be proven, i tried enough. And that's why i didn't want to get sucked into a debate, because i been thru this for many years and its just a waste of time. You will believe what you want to believe no matter what is said or posted, and i will believe what i want to believe no matter what its said or posted. Simple as this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 22:18:09 GMT
I doubt a Gorilla would murder a female Lion. Gorillas already have some difficulty with Leopards since they flee and omit 'fear' odors when they encounter the big cat. Not to mention there are a lot of sources of Gorillas getting predated on by Leopards. Not to mention that Lions can physically wrestle down large prey. I do not think a Gorilla can match this typr of grappling and usage of claws. I doubt it would just ''murder'' a lioness too, but if it has a size advantage that's going to be a huge problem. They omit fear odors because they don't know where the leopard is and the mothers are pacifist vegan monkeys. AND they're caught lacking in their sleep, like a big cowardly man jumping on you and stabbing you in your sleep. The amazing part is that leopards (a very large population of leopards too) still usually fail, and always fail on silverback gorillas. Gorillas are more like carnivorans than herbivores, despite their diet. They are a different animal entirely from 4 legged ungulates. Gorillas are monkeys, they are better grapplers but since it's much stronger any grappling won't matter at all. Of course it can't match that usage of claws, the same way it can't match the type of usage of octopus tentacles. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 22:19:40 GMT
You don't understand gorillas. This is the worst mismatch on this board, even for joke standards. Make this a 1v1 and it is heavily in favor of the tiger and STILL not a mismatch. 430 lb tiger vs 350 lbs silverback is definitely turtlenecking mismatch territory. That's not a fight the silverback will ever win. Even a 450 lb silverback will lose everytime. Edit to my last post, forgot to say it was all adult "male" gorillas I did the limb long bone calculations for. A 450lb silverback would in all likelihood beat 95% of all lions and tigers. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 22, 2023 2:33:52 GMT
Wrong. You posted that scat study to argue how leopards hunt small gorillas. I made a correction that the scats contained adult gorillas, and then you changed your stance to scavenging. You post an unrelated documentary with too many edits. For example, the leopard looks to not even be in the same region or even country as that gorilla family. The document mentions that they saw the leopard, tried to fight the felid off with a makeshift 'spear', and still fled from the area. I am not open since I do not see two gorillas crushing the 'striped kitty' since the evidence contradicts that behavior of gorillas. We both gave our sources and disagree with the outcome, so let's move on. BolushiI actually think gorilla strength is a bit overrated. Big Cat strength:     A gorilla can barely throw away a smaller member.  That combined with the fact that they do not tackle down large animals with teeth and claws could seriously lead to a tiger or lion destroying any gorilla. |
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Post by Methane on Feb 22, 2023 3:10:48 GMT
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