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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 14:46:57 GMT
It's certainly plausible that cats are better at snakes than dogs. Some dogs can be very good with snakes, but I do know cats are good with them also. The dogs I actually like are not good with snakes. What's the largest snake a dog can beat to you? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 15, 2023 15:29:25 GMT
Well, in an open field, dogs that use "hit and run" strategies could hypothetically and potentially tire out and kill any sized snake. Cats can do the same with their "swat and move" techniques. Lure an air swing, leap out of the way, do that until the snake slows down, then start striking at the head of the now extended snake flat on the ground after it's air-swings (bat for cat, bite for dog), rinse and repeat until the snake is exhausted ... then push for increasingly damaging attacks to the head. Logically it's a viable avenue to success on any snake, and I've seen it employed before by cunning cats and dogs. I think where things get interesting is in a close quarter engagement, and that's why my preferred dogs don't do well, because they are all-in on close engagement no matter what. If they actually engage and become embroiled in a close-quarter grapple, a constrictor snake suddenly starts punching above it's weight. I've seen foxes kill very large pythons their own size (around 10 kgs) with a careful prolonged strategic approach that uses hit and run weakening strategies, but I've also seen foxes get over-confident and committ to the full attack on a much smaller pythons and be strangled to death.   I have seen dogs do the same (mostly pariah dogs in 3rd world countries). I've read about big cats doing the same, leopards and even jaguars. I don't know the size where things turn around or whatever, it is almost like size is irrelevant, or certainly a much smaller snake can strangle a larger cat or dog, so of course a bigger one can also all the more easily, BUT if the dog or cat play their cards right and don't fall into the trap of playing the snake's game, it's size can be made irrelevant. I train my dogs to leave snakes alone anyway, they can have a look, but don't engage them (all of them, big and small, venomous and non venomous)-  My Kelpie x is the kind of dog that COULD, hypothetically be good at killing snakes. She has the right instincts, smarts and reflexes for the hit and run strategy on big snakes and the "quick whip and break" strategy optimal for venomous snakes. But it's just not a game I want them to play. My bull arab is the kind of dog that would just ease into a fight with a snake by grabbing it and figuring it can take it's time and control things, only to then be either envenomated or strangled depending on the snake. Gripping dogs and snakes are a bad mix, so mine is trained they are all off limits. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 16:03:19 GMT
Well, in an open field, dogs that use "hit and run" strategies could hypothetically and potentially tire out and kill any sized snake. Cats can do the same with their "swat and move" techniques. Lure an air swing, leap out of the way, do that until the snake slows down, then start striking at the head of the now extended snake flat on the ground after it's air-swings (bat for cat, bite for dog), rinse and repeat until the snake is exhausted ... then push for increasingly damaging attacks to the head. Logically it's a viable avenue to success on any snake, and I've seen it employed before by cunning cats and dogs. I think where things get interesting is in a close quarter engagement, and that's why my preferred dogs don't do well, because they are all-in on close engagement no matter what. If they actually engage and become embroiled in a close-quarter grapple, a constrictor snake suddenly starts punching above it's weight. I've seen foxes kill very large pythons their own size (around 10 kgs) with a careful prolonged strategic approach that uses hit and run weakening strategies, but I've also seen foxes get over-confident and committ to the full attack on a much smaller pythons and be strangled to death. I have seen dogs do the same (mostly pariah dogs in 3rd world countries). I've read about big cats doing the same, leopards and even jaguars. I don't know the size where things turn around or whatever, it is almost like size is irrelevant, or certainly a much smaller snake can strangle a larger cat or dog, so of course a bigger one can also all the more easily, BUT if the dog or cat play their cards right and don't fall into the trap of playing the snake's game, it's size can be made irrelevant. I train my dogs to leave snakes alone anyway, they can have a look, but don't engage them (all of them, big and small, venomous and non venomous)- My Kelpie x is the kind of dog that COULD, hypothetically be good at killing snakes. She has the right instincts, smarts and reflexes for the hit and run strategy on big snakes and the "quick whip and break" strategy optimal for venomous snakes. But it's just not a game I want them to play. My bull arab is the kind of dog that would just ease into a fight with a snake by grabbing it and figuring it can take it's time and control things, only to then be either envenomated or strangled depending on the snake. Gripping dogs and snakes are a bad mix, so mine is trained they are all off limits. I guess the Green anaconda is too much then. Good post though. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 15, 2023 16:16:22 GMT
Far less than the green anaconda is too much, IF it gets a hold.
Even a green anaconda could be evaded and worn down by a crafty careful dog.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 17:20:56 GMT
Far less than the green anaconda is too much, IF it gets a hold. Even a green anaconda could be evaded and worn down by a crafty careful dog. POSSIBLY worn down, but I don't see it happening, they have killed caimans and cougars, but of course not being able to kill a 200 kg snake isn't anything to cry over lol - most predators wouldn't be able to do it, also some dogs can control bulls anyways (I'm not being sarcastic by the way, I now see the light in bulldogs). |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 15, 2023 20:41:14 GMT
Also, dogs lose to constrictor snakes. On the other hand,the Felidae in general can fight pretty well with snakes Anacondas have kills cougars. Dogs get killed by all pythons. Also, there was a video of an Ocelot killing an Anaconda.The Anaconda may have been small, bitsmall constrictors can still get the better of dogs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2023 21:20:05 GMT
Anacondas have kills cougars. Dogs get killed by all pythons. Also, there was a video of an Ocelot killing an Anaconda.The Anaconda may have been small, bitsmall constrictors can still get the better of dogs. They can get the better of cats too. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 15, 2023 21:26:01 GMT
*potentially.
We need to understand that nearly any constrictor snake over about 7 feet can potentially strangle a dog OR cat, and also can potentially be evaded, worn down and picked apart. Cats MAY be slightly better at it (debatable), but the dynamics between snake and cat and snake and dog are more similar than they are different.
What's not debatable is snakes (both constriction and venomous) are a bad match for gripping dogs, and both cats and collies are much better at dealing with snakes than gripping dogs. The fearless close quarter "take your time to control and win" strategy of gripping dogs is terrible for snakes. So I literally "have no dog in this fight", I wave the white flag for my animal, but yes other kinds of dogs and cats alike can easily evade a large snake if they have eyes on it.
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Post by Johnson on Jan 15, 2023 22:11:19 GMT
Dogs get killed by all pythons. Also, there was a video of an Ocelot killing an Anaconda.The Anaconda may have been small, bitsmall constrictors can still get the better of dogs. They can get the better of cats too. Yeah, but dogs/canids don't stand a chance. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 15, 2023 22:31:47 GMT
They can get the better of cats too. Yeah, but dogs/canids don't stand a chance. That's just clearly nonsense if they simply avoid the snakes strikes and wear it down. The bigger the snake the easier this is, and dogs have proven to do this with very fast venomous snakes, so... Definitely too quick for a big constrictor. The only risk is to a dumb dog that thinks it can just mosey in and bite and hold, like a gripping dog. A Kelpie or cattle dog or Airedale Terrier or etc will never get caught by a snake that it sees. Way too quick. Frankly EVEN a cat can't catch them, and both are way op for evading a snake. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 16, 2023 0:09:34 GMT
Whatever is the case, dogs or canids seem to fall easily to constrictor snakes.  |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 2:27:44 GMT
There's a lot of dogs in the world and a lot of them are naive and stupid. So yeah. You're gonna get a lot of cases of dead dogs. None of those dogs represent other dogs, however. This doesn't demonstrate that "dogs don't stand a chance". That's nuts. "Dogs in general" is basically never a thing, they are too many different animals.
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Post by Johnson on Jan 16, 2023 4:43:31 GMT
Ok.
I included a pitbull that was swallowed by an anaconda, a wolf or wild canid that was killed by a python, a feral/pariah dog that was killed by a python and a pet german shepherd that was killed by a smaller python.
It is possible for a top tier gripping dog to put up a fight, but how will it get out? If it bites the snake, then a constrictor can quickly wrap itself around the neck or body od the dog. How will the dog free itself since it cannot grapple with the snake?
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 4:55:00 GMT
Gripping dog yes, any dog dumb enough to get tangled up yes. I'm talking about dogs just not playing that game, running circles around the snake and making it take air swings and biting it on the head when it's extended. Repeated over as many minutes or hours as it takes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 4:58:54 GMT
Gripping dog yes, any dog dumb enough to get tangled up yes. I'm talking about dogs just not playing that game, running circles around the snake and making it take air swings and biting it on the head when it's extended. Repeated over as many minutes or hours as it takes. So hypothetically even a Spitz breed would be able to kill a constrictor? |
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