|
|
Post by CoolJohnson on Nov 24, 2023 3:45:54 GMT
Striped and brown hyenas get beaten up by dogs smaller than themselves all the time and inflict no injuries to their assailants. Spotted hyena would be sturdier and stronger but if you control the head a hyena can't do much to you -  And if you don't, the hyena is no danger to quickly kill anyway. The dog has some time to gain control. An African wild dog is on video totally fucking a spotted hyena and a Dogo is approximately 100,000,000,000x more capable than an African wild dog at subjugating dangerous animals. rumble.com/v2u3j9u-african-wild-dog-neutralizes-a-hyena.htmlThat hyena was also doing barely any counter attack against that wild dog, "neutralising", that's a big word. Spotted hyenas have charged low-headed male leopards even larger than themselves and have got nasty neck bites which didn't slow them down from shaking off and chasing away an animal that is like infinite+ times stronger than a wild dog. Having that hyena in the video behaved like this one did by pushing foward it would have surely made the wild dog experience a jaw-dropping experience - There are a couple of videos of hyenas attacking men in India. www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/1817xgx/striped_hyena_attacks_man/www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/124mlhy/hyena_attacks_man/ |
|
|
|
Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 13:48:07 GMT
Most populations are too large. Dogo at 40kg parity. Tossup at 45kg and Puma at 50kg. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 13:52:24 GMT
Up to 120lbs I favor a 115lb Dogo, 130lbs is a close one. I think you'd need a 120lb Dogo to edge one out, a 115lb Dogo is probably outgunned, but it has a chance. A 100lb running catch dog Dogo is an even fight for a 120lb cougar, but an 100lb cougar is doomed against an 100lb Dogo. A 110lb cougar has a chance, but 115-120lbs is where the Dogo starts having issues. Weight advantages mean a lot in this match. 55kg Dogo? Lol, they were originally meant to be 40kg. In modern times they are closer to 45kg but they can retain a good performance up to 50kg. After that it gets increasingly dysfunctional. |
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 19:12:00 GMT
Up to 120lbs I favor a 115lb Dogo, 130lbs is a close one. I think you'd need a 120lb Dogo to edge one out, a 115lb Dogo is probably outgunned, but it has a chance. A 100lb running catch dog Dogo is an even fight for a 120lb cougar, but an 100lb cougar is doomed against an 100lb Dogo. A 110lb cougar has a chance, but 115-120lbs is where the Dogo starts having issues. Weight advantages mean a lot in this match. 55kg Dogo? Lol, they were originally meant to be 40kg. In modern times they are closer to 45kg but they can retain a good performance up to 50kg. After that it gets increasingly dysfunctional. Lots of working 120lbs Dogos around outside of Argentina, and some 130lbs ones but that is too far. The Dogos in Argentina are smaller than the ones in the USA, the Dogos in the USA are more specialized for being drop dogs as opposed to running dogs but many hunters are adapting to the Dogo style and the Dogos are smaller and they hunt Dogos how they're supposed to be hunted. However it's not entirely serviceable in most areas of the USA, they're not quite adapted to this kind of terrain. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 11:55:12 GMT
Can we all agree best Vs best goes horribly for the Dogo? Even a very experienced Dogo will lose badly ton
One of those jacked 70kg Torres del Paime Pumas. We need to compare them to females or males from manlet populations to make it fair
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Dec 2, 2023 12:07:24 GMT
Can we all agree best Vs best goes horribly for the Dogo? Even a very experienced Dogo will lose badly ton One of those jacked 70kg Torres del Paime Pumas. We need to compare them to females or males from manlet populations to make it fair No. Read my recent response to MV on bestiary. 35 lbs bulldogs have faired kind of ok against big male pumas and leopards, and even lions, so it is not so cut and dry. A "best of the best" dogo is always going to be an insanely difficult animal to fight. If you think "a honey badger doesn't give a damn" or whatever, you will be in for a surprise when an actually elite individual gripping dog finds itself engaged in a fight. Its a bit like that; plucky attitude and resilience making an animal strangely indomitable, only much much worse. You are actually better off talking about "average vs average" rather than best vs best, because so much of the capability of gripping dogs has to come from rare spirit and willpower. And when it does, it is always amazing and confounding what they can pull off. Even to those familiar with them find themselves shaking their heads in disbelief in the field. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 12:58:34 GMT
Can we all agree best Vs best goes horribly for the Dogo? Even a very experienced Dogo will lose badly ton One of those jacked 70kg Torres del Paime Pumas. We need to compare them to females or males from manlet populations to make it fair No. Read my recent response to MV on bestiary. 35 lbs bulldogs have faired kind of ok against big male pumas and leopards, and even lions, so it is not so cut and dry. A "best of the best" dogo is always going to be an insanely difficult animal to fight. If you think "a honey badger doesn't give a damn" or whatever, you will be in for a surprise when an actually elite individual gripping dog finds itself engaged in a fight. Its a bit like that; plucky attitude and resilience making an animal strangely indomitable, only much much worse. You are actually better off talking about "average vs average" rather than best vs best, because so much of the capability of gripping dogs has to come from rare spirit and willpower. And when it does, it is always amazing and confounding what they can pull off. Even to those familiar with them find themselves shaking their heads in disbelief in the field. A 40-45kg Dogo is not going to beat a 65-70kg Puma no matter how much "willpower" it has. It's not a superpower that makes you invincible. A 19th century ragtag 1.000-men Militia armed with bolt-action rifles would destroy the most disciplined and elite 6.000 men-strong Roman Legion |
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Dec 2, 2023 15:58:12 GMT
Can we all agree best Vs best goes horribly for the Dogo? Even a very experienced Dogo will lose badly ton One of those jacked 70kg Torres del Paime Pumas. We need to compare them to females or males from manlet populations to make it fair If by "best" puma you mean "the biggest puma" then ok, the puma is 100lbs bigger, I'm not sure what you expected. Female puma is usually gonna be unfair because they are fags that give up, when I have seen female-looking cougars participating in pen tests or being hunted it is clear they really aren't much. The same way boars give up, pumas give up, but the female pumas give up much more readily than the male ones from what I've seen. Think we've all seen the pen test where it looks like a female puma briefly puts up a fight but ends up letting the Dogo tear at it? The harshest criticisms of cats genuinely apply to female pumas most of the time. Male puma from most populations is 125-130lbs and then some elk munching populations are 130-160lbs. That former is rattling, a concern, the latter is not okie dokie. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Dec 2, 2023 16:04:55 GMT
My issue isn't with the victory so much as the "going horribly". Sort of the same issue I had with MV's phrasing on his breakdown. I don't dispute cat victory in an ava death match, and have said as much, it is the idea the dog is just easily destroyed that doesn't sit right. I mean maybe we would need to define "going horribly", but I've read and seen too much of much much smaller dogs than dogos being remarkably resilient and scrappy with even big male leopards and pumas and yes even bigger cats. Where they had a rugged time, maybe even died in some cases, but "going horribly" still sounds non-reflective of the actual events where the dogs often do remarkably well and offer staunch resistance and fight.
|
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 17:08:44 GMT
Can we all agree best Vs best goes horribly for the Dogo? Even a very experienced Dogo will lose badly ton One of those jacked 70kg Torres del Paime Pumas. We need to compare them to females or males from manlet populations to make it fair If by "best" puma you mean "the biggest puma" then ok, the puma is 100lbs bigger, I'm not sure what you expected. Female puma is usually gonna be unfair because they are fags that give up, when I have seen female-looking cougars participating in pen tests or being hunted it is clear they really aren't much. The same way boars give up, pumas give up, but the female pumas give up much more readily than the male ones from what I've seen. Think we've all seen the pen test where it looks like a female puma briefly puts up a fight but ends up letting the Dogo tear at it? The harshest criticisms of cats genuinely apply to female pumas most of the time. Male puma from most populations is 125-130lbs and then some elk munching populations are 130-160lbs. That former is rattling, a concern, the latter is not okie dokie. "Best Puma" in my message is the largest population (so 65-70kg). Im not using a 90-105kg Puma because that would both be extremely unfair to the Dogo (akin to Jagdterrier Vs Sunda CL) and because you would need to use a trash max size Dogo. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 17:10:22 GMT
My issue isn't with the victory so much as the "going horribly". Sort of the same issue I had with MV's phrasing on his breakdown. I don't dispute cat victory in an ava death match, and have said as much, it is the idea the dog is just easily destroyed that doesn't sit right. I mean maybe we would need to define "going horribly", but I've read and seen too much of much much smaller dogs than dogos being remarkably resilient and scrappy with even big male leopards and pumas and yes even bigger cats. Where they had a rugged time, maybe even died in some cases, but "going horribly" still sounds non-reflective of the actual events where the dogs often do remarkably well and offer staunch resistance and fight. With "going horribly" i mean the Dogo being killed by the 65-70kg Puma without much difficulty. Despite the odds a very experienced Dogo would offer resistance for a while and put up a fight but inevitably be overwhelmed very shortly after. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Dec 2, 2023 17:53:24 GMT
My issue isn't with the victory so much as the "going horribly". Sort of the same issue I had with MV's phrasing on his breakdown. I don't dispute cat victory in an ava death match, and have said as much, it is the idea the dog is just easily destroyed that doesn't sit right. I mean maybe we would need to define "going horribly", but I've read and seen too much of much much smaller dogs than dogos being remarkably resilient and scrappy with even big male leopards and pumas and yes even bigger cats. Where they had a rugged time, maybe even died in some cases, but "going horribly" still sounds non-reflective of the actual events where the dogs often do remarkably well and offer staunch resistance and fight. With "going horribly" i mean the Dogo being killed by the 65-70kg Puma without much difficulty. Despite the odds a very experienced Dogo would offer resistance for a while and put up a fight but inevitably be overwhelmed very shortly after. "Without much difficulty" is not consistent with really any case ever when it was known the gripping dog was legitimate. Considering a jaguar had very much difficulty, to an epic legendary level, with a likely ~40 kg bulldog. Considering leopards and pumas both have had difficulty with <20 kgs bulldogs. Considering lions have even had difficulty with similarly small bulldogs. Considering even a polar bear had difficulty with a likely 45 kgs boarhound -  Considering other boarhounds like Baker's Smut fought countless Sri Lankan Leopards (one of the most formidable populations with some of the larger individuals) alone deep in the wilderness without any assistance over many years and never lost ... I just don't see what the "lack of difficulty", specifically, is based on. Especially if you want to talk about the best dogs. All dog breeds and all dog types are littered with duds, even fodder you could say, but the exceptional individuals have showcased over and over and over again that they are tremendous fighters to a level that is rare in the animal kingdom of earth. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 18:30:44 GMT
With "going horribly" i mean the Dogo being killed by the 65-70kg Puma without much difficulty. Despite the odds a very experienced Dogo would offer resistance for a while and put up a fight but inevitably be overwhelmed very shortly after. "Without much difficulty" is not consistent with really any case ever when it was known the gripping dog was legitimate. Considering a jaguar had very much difficulty, to an epic legendary level, with a likely ~40 kg bulldog. Considering leopards and pumas both have had difficulty with <20 kgs bulldogs. Considering lions have even had difficulty with similarly small bulldogs. Considering even a polar bear had difficulty with a likely 45 kgs boarhound - Considering other boarhounds like Baker's Smut fought countless Sri Lankan Leopards (one of the most formidable populations with some of the larger individuals) alone deep in the wilderness without any assistance over many years and never lost ... I just don't see what the "lack of difficulty", specifically, is based on. Especially if you want to talk about the best dogs. All dog breeds and all dog types are littered with duds, even fodder you could say, but the exceptional individuals have showcased over and over and over again that they are tremendous fighters to a level that is rare in the animal kingdom of earth. Sri Lankan Leopards average 56kg for males and 29kg for females, they aren't one of the most formidable Leopard populations, nor are their individuals particularly large. And still no 20kg Bulldog has any chance of defeating it on 1v1. Same applies to any Puma or Leopard population that isn't manlet-sized. Im aware of that Mexican Jaguar Vs elite Bulldog battle that took place at near parity where the Bulldog did very well. Homever, 2 things 1 - Bulldogs are more powerful than Boarhounds at parity 2 - Instead of a parity fight. Pumas from the largest populations have a 25-30kg advantage over Dogos. What i mean with "Without much difficulty" is that the Puma is able to kill it fairly quickly without being substantially injured in the process. Pampered captive Lions are the only Lions that had any difficulty with those "20kg Bulldogs" |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Dec 2, 2023 19:11:45 GMT
"Without much difficulty" is not consistent with really any case ever when it was known the gripping dog was legitimate. Considering a jaguar had very much difficulty, to an epic legendary level, with a likely ~40 kg bulldog. Considering leopards and pumas both have had difficulty with <20 kgs bulldogs. Considering lions have even had difficulty with similarly small bulldogs. Considering even a polar bear had difficulty with a likely 45 kgs boarhound - Considering other boarhounds like Baker's Smut fought countless Sri Lankan Leopards (one of the most formidable populations with some of the larger individuals) alone deep in the wilderness without any assistance over many years and never lost ... I just don't see what the "lack of difficulty", specifically, is based on. Especially if you want to talk about the best dogs. All dog breeds and all dog types are littered with duds, even fodder you could say, but the exceptional individuals have showcased over and over and over again that they are tremendous fighters to a level that is rare in the animal kingdom of earth. Sri Lankan Leopards average 56kg for males and 29kg for females, they aren't one of the most formidable Leopard populations, nor are their individuals particularly large. And still no 20kg Bulldog has any chance of defeating it on 1v1. Same applies to any Puma or Leopard population that isn't manlet-sized. Im aware of that Mexican Jaguar Vs elite Bulldog battle that took place at near parity where the Bulldog did very well. Homever, 2 things 1 - Bulldogs are more powerful than Boarhounds at parity 2 - Instead of a parity fight. Pumas from the largest populations have a 25-30kg advantage over Dogos. What i mean with "Without much difficulty" is that the Puma is able to kill it fairly quickly without being substantially injured in the process. Pampered captive Lions are the only Lions that had any difficulty with those "20kg Bulldogs" Even the hard mean lion had "fights" for minutes with tiny bulldogs during its ordeal, and there were survivors. I struggle to imagine a puma coming out of that cage alive. I was under different impressions with Sri Lankan Leopards. In fact I am fairly sure I've seen some 91 kg males recorded from Sri Lanka. I'm also fairly sure the man himself who was there at the time details very large sized leopards/panthers he himself killed. I'd have to go back over the texts to get the exact weights. I suspect the ones who thought it was a good idea to climb down from a tree and accept the challenge of a 130 lbs warhound covered in scars were likely on the larger side. I don't believe bulldogs are really much more powerful than boarhounds, especially the dogo which is a bulldog-leaning boarhound. A dogal, yes. Dogos and alanos and corsos and presas... there's really no strength/combat difference. |
|
|
|
Post by s on Dec 2, 2023 19:19:45 GMT
Sri Lankan Leopards average 56kg for males and 29kg for females, they aren't one of the most formidable Leopard populations, nor are their individuals particularly large. And still no 20kg Bulldog has any chance of defeating it on 1v1. Same applies to any Puma or Leopard population that isn't manlet-sized. Im aware of that Mexican Jaguar Vs elite Bulldog battle that took place at near parity where the Bulldog did very well. Homever, 2 things 1 - Bulldogs are more powerful than Boarhounds at parity 2 - Instead of a parity fight. Pumas from the largest populations have a 25-30kg advantage over Dogos. What i mean with "Without much difficulty" is that the Puma is able to kill it fairly quickly without being substantially injured in the process. Pampered captive Lions are the only Lions that had any difficulty with those "20kg Bulldogs" Even the hard mean lion had "fights" for minutes with tiny bulldogs during its ordeal, and there were survivors. I struggle to imagine a puma coming out of that cage alive. How many Bulldogs were on those cages? |
|
