Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 9:01:14 GMT
@ling I can't help but notice the jaguars that killed that cattle were all female. Do you think this means anything about the capabilities of a male jaguar?
I forgot those were female.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 11:34:11 GMT
@ling I can't help but notice the jaguars that killed that cattle were all female. Do you think this means anything about the capabilities of a male jaguar? I forgot those were female. All those cattle are shitty anyways as they have acetonemia. A bison would be leagues above a skinny and malnourished domestic cow - if that wasn't obvious. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 19:53:45 GMT
@ling I can't help but notice the jaguars that killed that cattle were all female. Do you think this means anything about the capabilities of a male jaguar? I forgot those were female. All those cattle are shitty anyways as they have acetonemia. A bison would be leagues above a skinny and malnourished domestic cow - if that wasn't obvious. How do you know? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 19:54:59 GMT
I in no way advocate for SA cattle, btw. They are not very impressive besides water buffalo and spanish fighting bulls. I don't know what cattle type those are but I do not think they are the toughest cattle around. Just mostly good enough not to die to jaguars too often. Indeed bison are better than them, and a male jaguar is better than a female jaguar.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:20:02 GMT
I in no way advocate for SA cattle, btw. They are not very impressive besides water buffalo and spanish fighting bulls. I don't know what cattle type those are but I do not think they are the toughest cattle around. Just mostly good enough not to die to jaguars too often. Indeed bison are better than them, and a male jaguar is better than a female jaguar. All those dead cattle are Bos indicus, that's zebu from India. I posted an article earlier about how south Americans are being encouraged to switch to "criollo" cattle (which aren't even Spanish fighting cattle, but are related and from Spain) rather than the zebu most raise, because jaguars mostly don't mess with the bos Taurus cattle. They are doing this to save the Jaguar, because when they kill cattle they get killed.  Zebu (white) with a criollo(brown) in south America. Zebu aren't totally shit, they're like the gaur of domestic cattle. They are durable and can get very big. The bulls get huge neck humps and have lots of dewlap to prevent throat holds from tigers and leopards. It's extremely impressive that jaguar's kill them, but they don't really attack and kill predators like Bos Taurus cattle can. That behaviour turns jaguars off and makes them avoid bos Taurus. Scrub cattle in australia are typically actually hybrids of indicus and Taurus and tend to get the best of both worlds. Dewlap and neck humps for durability but also lethal offense. As I outlined earlier, the bison doesn't really have good offense against predators either. They are faster and more athletic than Zebu but realistically I think Jaguars killing zebu and s.gracilis killing bison are comparable feats. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 20:31:01 GMT
I in no way advocate for SA cattle, btw. They are not very impressive besides water buffalo and spanish fighting bulls. I don't know what cattle type those are but I do not think they are the toughest cattle around. Just mostly good enough not to die to jaguars too often. Indeed bison are better than them, and a male jaguar is better than a female jaguar. All those dead cattle are Bos indicus, that's zebu from India. I posted an article earlier about how south Americans are being encouraged to switch to "criollo" cattle (which aren't even Spanish fighting cattle, but are related and from Spain) rather than the zebu most raise, because jaguars mostly don't mess with the bos Taurus cattle. They are doing this to save the Jaguar, because when they kill cattle they get killed. Zebu (white) with a criollo(brown) in south America. Zebu aren't totally shit, they're like the gaur of domestic cattle. They are durable and can get very big. The bulls get huge neck humps and have lots of dewlap to prevent throat holds from tigers and leopards. It's extremely impressive that jaguar's kill them, but they don't really attack and kill predators like Bos Taurus cattle can. That behaviour turns jaguars off and makes them avoid bos Taurus. Scrub cattle in australia are typically actually hybrids of indicus and Taurus and tend to get the best of both worlds. Dewlap and neck humps for durability but also lethal offense. As I outlined earlier, the bison doesn't really have good offense against predators either. They are faster and more athletic than Zebu but realistically I think Jaguars killing zebu and s.gracilis killing bison are comparable feats. They are pretty shit lol. A bunch of them have diseases and are always bloated and skinny. Also being the 'gaur' of domestic cattle is far from an impressive feat lol, gaur have large humps yes, but also have small necks and aren't as aggressive nor as good fighters as bison and buffaloes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 20:35:42 GMT
All those cattle are shitty anyways as they have acetonemia. A bison would be leagues above a skinny and malnourished domestic cow - if that wasn't obvious. How do you know? How do I know what? That they're skinny and malnourished? Literally just google them. A bunch of them are in poor condition - probably because they live in an LEDC. Bison are WAY above their league. Its hardly rocket science lol. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:41:53 GMT
All those dead cattle are Bos indicus, that's zebu from India. I posted an article earlier about how south Americans are being encouraged to switch to "criollo" cattle (which aren't even Spanish fighting cattle, but are related and from Spain) rather than the zebu most raise, because jaguars mostly don't mess with the bos Taurus cattle. They are doing this to save the Jaguar, because when they kill cattle they get killed. Zebu (white) with a criollo(brown) in south America. Zebu aren't totally shit, they're like the gaur of domestic cattle. They are durable and can get very big. The bulls get huge neck humps and have lots of dewlap to prevent throat holds from tigers and leopards. It's extremely impressive that jaguar's kill them, but they don't really attack and kill predators like Bos Taurus cattle can. That behaviour turns jaguars off and makes them avoid bos Taurus. Scrub cattle in australia are typically actually hybrids of indicus and Taurus and tend to get the best of both worlds. Dewlap and neck humps for durability but also lethal offense. As I outlined earlier, the bison doesn't really have good offense against predators either. They are faster and more athletic than Zebu but realistically I think Jaguars killing zebu and s.gracilis killing bison are comparable feats. They are pretty shit lol. A bunch of them have diseases and are always bloated and skinny. Also being the 'gaur' of domestic cattle is far from an impressive feat lol, gaur have large humps yes, but also have small necks and aren't as aggressive nor as good fighters as bison and buffaloes. Well to be clear, this is what a mature adult male zebu (Bos Indicus) looks like-  It's the gaur of domestic cattle because it has stacked it's attribute points in durability, and that's not a terrible strategy. But yes it is kind of passive and jaguars can work with that. Bos Taurus actively seek out jaguars and try to kill them, and this tends to make jaguars move on and look else where. Bison are pretty passive too though. Bison don't kill predators very often. Bisons are impressive wrecking balls against other bovines but I am not impressed with their anti-predator abilities. Cape buffaloes and Bos Taurus cattle both are better IMO. Also we don't know that smilodon was picking off the best of the best Bison, in fact, we know it wasn't, because that's just not how predators operate. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 20:46:51 GMT
They are pretty shit lol. A bunch of them have diseases and are always bloated and skinny. Also being the 'gaur' of domestic cattle is far from an impressive feat lol, gaur have large humps yes, but also have small necks and aren't as aggressive nor as good fighters as bison and buffaloes. Well to be clear, this is what a mature adult male zebu (Bos Indicus) looks like- It's the gaur of domestic cattle because it has stacked it's attribute points in durability, and that's not a terrible strategy. But yes it is kind of passive and jaguars can work with that. Bos Taurus actively seek out jaguars and try to kill them, and this tends to make jaguars move on and look else where. Bison are pretty passive too though. Bison don't kill predators very often. Bisons are impressive wrecking balls against other bovines but I am not impressed with their anti-predator abilities. Cape buffaloes and Bos Taurus cattle both are better IMO. Also we don't know that smilodon was picking off the best of the best Bison, in fact, we know it wasn't, because that's just not how predators operate. Lmao you literally tried to find the best picture of a zebu possible.  Also bison are more impressive than a fucking zebu. I'm surprised you can't realise that. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:47:24 GMT
A prime Bos Taurus-  Lacks durability compared to Bos Indicus, but is more athletic and aggressive. Targets predators. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:49:23 GMT
Lmao you literally tried to find the best picture of a zebu possible. Yes that's literally exactly what I was doing, to give them a fair shake. It's no sly trick. We've seen the shitty pathetic ones so we should also see the best to get an idea of the spectrum encompassed by this animal. Bison are more impressive in a lot of ways. Faster and more athletic for sure, most impressive for me is their bovine-fighting ability, they would KO all the bovines we are talking about here. BUT, specifically as prey for predators, I don't believe they are more impressive than Bos Indicus. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 20:51:48 GMT
Lmao you literally tried to find the best picture of a zebu possible. Yes that's literally exactly what I was doing, to give them a fair shake. It's no sly trick. We've seen the shitty pathetic ones so we should also see the best to get an idea of the spectrum encompassed by this animal. Bison are more impressive in a lot of ways. Faster and more athletic for sure, most impressive for me is their bovine-fighting ability, they would KO all the bovines we are talking about here. BUT, specifically as prey for predators, I don't believe they are more impressive than Bos Indicus. "At maturity, zebu bulls weigh 400-500 kg, cows 230-280 kg, and newborn calves 12-15 kg." "An apex predator, Smilodon primarily hunted large mammals. Isotopes preserved in the bones of S. fatalis in the La Brea Tar Pits reveal that ruminants like bison (Bison antiquus, which was much larger than the modern American bison) and camels (Camelops) were most commonly taken by the cats there." "Description. The ancient bison, Bison antiquus, was taller, had longer horns, and was 25% more massive than living American bison (Bison bison). It was roughly 7.5 feet tall and 15 feet long, weighing approximately 3,500 pounds." It isn't the same Hardcastle, how can you not see that? |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:55:15 GMT
Aahhh Brahman are Zebu (and are the very zebu that are being used in South America)- linkI was using "zebu" as a general term for the Bos Indicus species, it seems it is sometimes used to refer to a breed of Bos Indicus. The Bos indicus extensively farmed in South America are Brahman. They're massive. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 20:58:00 GMT
Aahhh Brahman are Zebu (and are the very zebu that are being used in South America)- linkI was using "zebu" as a general term for the Bos Indicus species, it seems it is sometimes used to refer to a breed of Bos Indicus. The Bos indicus extensively farmed in South America are Brahman. They're massive. Are they 3,500 pounds? Nope! |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jan 7, 2023 20:59:38 GMT
I will concede that I wasn't aware it was some mega huge bison Gracilis was hunting... and actually now that I look into it... are you sure it was Gracilis? Seems to me it was fatalis hunting those Bison.
|
|
