Most combat-specialized dog types?

[Hardcastle]

Dec 2, 2023 20:33:40 GMT Bolushi said:

Your list disrespects a bunch of fairly scrappy dog types and the bird dogs are taking the biggest hit.

I kind of agree.. where would you place them?

[Bolushi]

I'd put all the bird dogs, with emphasis on the Drahthaar, next to the heelers. Maybe a bit below.
It's weird that the Airedale is a cur, really, but then it's elevated over the others curs. I mean I agree it's better but I don't know why.  

Also Drahthaar is a pointer but then there is also "pointer" below the generalist gun? Heh?

[Hardcastle]

Only me and you say the Airedale is a cur, its kind of its own thing, which is why I separated it. It works like a cur, but is a very rough mean scrappy cur. Certainly elevated killing ability over other curs.

I do agree with you, in hindsight, I should just join all pointers and generalist guns. The drahthaar sometimes is seemingly more compative than other pointers, and maybe it seems the dalmatian kind of can be as well, and perhaps was, but then some shorthairs can be fighty as well (like the python cowboy's dog). Weims and Vizslas aren't tougher than pointers, so that doesn't make sense. I'll make some moves.

[Hardcastle]

Updated (couldn't quite elevate them to where you wanted, even though I think its sometimes true, lets just say some of the team let them down)-

1. Bull terriers
2. Baiting Bulldogs
3. Hard Fell and hunting Terriers (patt, Border, jagd)
4. Night dogs
5. Farm Bulldogs
6. Boarhounds
7. Warhounds
8. Other Hunting terriers (Airedale, Wheaten, kerry blue, lakeland, Irish, bedlington, parson russel)
9. Wolfhounds
10. Softer fell and rat terriers (majority of terriers; jrt, tenterfield, manchester, rat, roosevelt, cairn, australian)
11. Rustic LGDs (sarplaninac, kangal, central asian shepherd)
12. Staghounds and large hunting greys
13. Rugged Spitz (Akita, Karelian, Jindo, shiba)
14. Drovers (rottweiler, bouvier, giant schnauzer)
15. Curs
16. Continental herders
17. White LGDs (pyrenees, maremma, kuvasz, akbash)
18. Heelers
19. Curring spitz (huskies, laika, et al)
20. Otterhounds
21. Track Greyhounds
22. Bloodhounds (st Huberts/talbot)
23. Pointers (gsp, english, gwp, spanish) and generalist gun (Weimeraner, Viszla, Dalmatian)
24. Retrievers
25. Pariahs
26. Headers (collies/koolies/aus sheps/kelpies)
27. Ancient world Sighthound (salukis and azawakhs and chippiparais and etc)
28. Foxhounds
29. Coonhounds
30. Dwarven scent (basset and dachshund)
31. Setters
32. Spaniels
33. Water dogs (poodle, portuguese)
34. Toys

[Hardcastle]

Also made minor adjustment, placed pariah over headers, and added dwarven scenthounds.

[Hardcastle]

If you ever get bored you should copy the list, remove the numbers, and somehow "shuffle them" with copy and paste, and then try and make a list without looking at mine. Would be curious what you instinctively come up with. Sure it would be basically close-ish but interesting if there were minor differences. I could easily see different orders making sense.

[Hardcastle]

Ancient world sighthounds might not even deserve to be above foxhounds and coonhounds, I can't say I have seen any good feats from them fight/kill wise.

[Hardcastle]

There's potentially a case to be made for fell terriers to elevate honestly, even to second place. My biases, not against terriers as much as for subjugation, are playing a part there.

[Hardcastle]

Its interesting to consider where wolves are... I couldn't in good conscience put them lower than curring spitz, but also would never put them higher than rustic LGD. It is difficult even for me to put them higher than something like an Akita, and yeah no. So probably somewhere around curs and drovers.

[Hardcastle]

You have to get to 27 before you get to actual diminished combat adaptation from the base model, so that is not bad at all. I would have expected it closer to half way, but I can see some kind of argument for some level of elevated combat, however slight, above that point. Though continent herder dead square halfway makes sense as well, and that is where they are.

[s]

Dec 3, 2023 17:45:16 GMT Hardcastle said:

You have to get to 27 before you get to actual diminished combat adaptation from the base model, so that is not bad at all. I would have expected it closer to half way, but I can see some kind of argument for some level of elevated combat, however slight, above that point. Though continent herder dead square halfway makes sense as well, and that is where they are.

Is Grey Wolf the base model?

[Hardcastle]

Dec 3, 2023 18:37:37 GMT s said:

Dec 3, 2023 17:45:16 GMT Hardcastle said:

You have to get to 27 before you get to actual diminished combat adaptation from the base model, so that is not bad at all. I would have expected it closer to half way, but I can see some kind of argument for some level of elevated combat, however slight, above that point. Though continent herder dead square halfway makes sense as well, and that is where they are.

Is Grey Wolf the base model?

Technically no, because dogs evolved into "dingo" pariahs first, before they started radiating in variation. So a pariah/dingo is the base model. Wolves were superior to the earliest dogs, for a good while.

[s]

Dec 3, 2023 20:08:39 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 3, 2023 18:37:37 GMT s said:

Is Grey Wolf the base model?

Technically no, because dogs evolved into "dingo" pariahs first, before they started radiating in variation. So a pariah/dingo is the base model. Wolves were superior to the earliest dogs, for a good while.

Where would you place Wolves among the Dogs? Their intraspecific fights frequently get very bloody

[Hardcastle]

Dec 3, 2023 17:40:54 GMT Hardcastle said:

Its interesting to consider where wolves are... I couldn't in good conscience put them lower than curring spitz, but also would never put them higher than rustic LGD. It is difficult even for me to put them higher than something like an Akita, and yeah no. So probably somewhere around curs and drovers.

^
Depending on my mood, maybe at a rustic LGD level max.

[lincoln]

I agree with hardcastle, either bulldogs or bull terriers