Dog speed.

[bombsonyourmom]

I probably won't post here that often and will mainly lurk. Since there is a lot of focus on domestic dogs on this forum I figured I would provide this resource.

Fast cat keeps tracks the participants speeds, breed, and year of participation.


www.apps.akc.org/apps/fastcat_ranking/

[Hardcastle]

Aug 23, 2023 15:14:20 GMT bombsonyourmom said:

I probably won't post here that often and will mainly lurk. Since there is a lot of focus on domestic dogs on this forum I figured I would provide this resource.

Fast cat keeps tracks the participants speeds, breed, and year of participation.


www.apps.akc.org/apps/fastcat_ranking/

Cool. I was thinking just thinking yesterday about starting a dog speed thread, so kudos to you.

I was about to poo-poo the website because it seems like it is mostly measuring registered AKC show dogs so its inherently lame, BUT, they actually have the highest recorded speed for a greyhound I have ever seen, which is neat- 52.48 MPH or 84.45 KMPH. The highest speed I had seen before that was 50.1 mph or 80.6 kmph for a dog named Fanta from the world's fastest dog database, and this was heavily disputed (though shouldn't have been, only by dog haters, it was GPS tracked).
So yeah, pretty damn cool.

I maintain top speed doesn't even BEGIN to capture just how much faster greyhounds are compared to many other animals due to their extremely high acceleration and also their ability to sustain their top speed, both exceedingly rare levels that dwarf most animals, and result in a hypothetical "race" being much more lop sided than top speed would indicate. But... a very high top speed is nice as well.

The top results for nearly every other breed seem fairly poor, and I would be compelled to lean back on my initial assessment that testing AKC registered pet show dogs for speed is kind of silly. Would be nice to get some working dogs like lurchers and bull greys and etc, but what can you do. Overall a very cool resource.
I notice Belgian Malinois are getting nice speeds around 35.5 mph or 57.1 kmph, which actually beats some sighthounds, at least in this thing. I honestly wouldn't have thought any sighthound would be beaten so... ok. Pretty cool.

[Hardcastle]

It is interesting how most breeds, regardless of shape, are between 25 and 30 mph. Getting over 30 is pretty exclusive in that database...

I just wanna say though, whatever your favourite wild animal is (whoever is reading this), trust me when I say the "official" speed given for them is incorrect, and almost invariably exaggerated in the positive.

[bombsonyourmom]

It's important to note that most animal speed estimates you see online are probably wrong. For instance, most google search results will claim elephants can run 25 miles per hour but actual studies found that the fastest elephants can only move 25 kilometers per hour and the one elephant that ran that fast was a lighter sub adult.

So a lot of these figures may sound less impressive compared to inflated animal speed records but they're not actually that bad.

Of course, most people aren't going to pay to measure their dogs running speed so there is going to be a unrepresentative sample. You'll have the try hards and owners who care more about form and pedigree over function.

[bombsonyourmom]

If anyone has the time it might be cool to group up the top and median speeds of dogs by body type and weight.

For instance sight hounds class, mastiffs, generalist (husky malinois) ect.

[Hardcastle]

The more I look at it the more interesting I find it. I think it is pretty cool. A lot of the "feelings" I have had from observations which I pushed aside because they seemed illogical are kind of correlating with the results. Like I always felt like scenthounds were slow, and mostly in this they are. Somewhat ditto for spitz breeds, and sure enough. I always felt like bullbreeds and bullmastiffs were surprisingly fast considering their bulk, and they are in this as well. Nothing crazy. Like a lot of bullbreeds are 28 and 29 mph, while a lot of scenthounds and spitz are 25-27. A lot of gun dogs are getting up closer to 29-31, which I again felt was true but kind of didn't make sense because I thought scenthounds and spitz are more selected for running.
I dunno, all in all kind of intriguing results.

[Hardcastle]

Aug 23, 2023 16:56:36 GMT bombsonyourmom said:

If anyone has the time it might be cool to group up the top and median speeds of dogs by body type and weight.

For instance sight hounds class, mastiffs, generalist (husky malinois) ect.

Yeah I think I wanna do something, even just establish a "rank" based on this, would be interesting.

[bombsonyourmom]

It might be a good idea to make this thread a general dog running thread since a dogs greatest strength is their endurance rather than raw speed.

Recently I noticed a lot of people have tried to push this idea that humas are the best endurance runners (probably because they are sick of being told how weak humans are) and are only beaten by huskies but that is nonsense. Humans might have above average stamina but are feet and legs are poorly designed. Persistence hunting only works in extremely hot conditions and even then the hunters have to carry a lot of water with them otherwise they will get a heat stroke and die.

Running down prey is a canine/hyena's bread and butter strategy. Regardless of the weather conditions they just have to suck it up and run.

Even dogs breeds that aren't running specialists are better endurance runners than humans. There was a story of a lazy blood hound that got 7th place on a marathon. Keep in mind that this dog wasn't really trying and was constantly distracted. According to other articles she romped in puddles and ate a road kill rabbit. The owner also claimed that her dog normally is very inactive and rarely runs.



I am not super knowledgeable on dogs, but I imagine scent hounds are not that fast by design. A hunter probably doesn't want their tracker to leave them in the dust.

Any idea how long dogs can maintain their top speeds? According to some sources, ostriches maintain speeds of 60 kilometer per hour for over 20 minutes.

Ostriches in particular are acknowledged as excellent long-endurance runners, capable of running with a speed of 60 km/h for durations exceeding twenty minutes while reaching peak velocities up to 80 km/h – surpassing the locomotor abilities of their ratite relatives. Documentation of this performance is presented by Alexander et al. (1979

archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/volltextserver/8852/1/Schaller_Dis.pdf

Unlike most animals speed estimates, info on ostrich running ability are probably accurate because biologists are jealous of how efficient the ostrich leg and foot design is and have done a lot of research on the topic. When it comes to long distance running ratite are probably the best since they have an energy efficient gait and a unidirectional breathing system.


Just remembered this crazy video: 

[Deleted]

I wonder who would win if you made every animal race each other. It highly depends on the length of the race. If the race is on the longer end then I actually believe that the human stands a really good chance. A really, really good chance.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2023 19:15:12 GMT bombsonyourmom said:

Even dogs breeds that aren't running specialists are better endurance runners than humans.

Ehh... no. A well-fit marathon runner should certainly be able to run for longer than a flabby, unfit dog. It should be noted that the humans could have maintained their speed for longer than the dog could've. Also the dog joined in who knows when. Presumably not at the very start of the race like everyone else.

[Deleted]

Dean Karnazes also ran for 350 miles without stopping at all. AT ALL. A dog would have to stop to pant, whilst humans have the ability to maintain stamina whilst running by sweating. Dogs can sweat too yes but only from their paws.

[bombsonyourmom]

Humans being able to run ultra long distances doesn't prove animals can't. There simply isn't a reason for most animals to run for such a long time.

The only ones that do are huskies and horses, both of which are forced to do so by humans and 100 percent objectively better runners.

Horses usually beat humans in long distance races despite their many handicaps and historically the premodern armies that could cover long distances in a relatively short amount of time where primarily horse riders like the Mongols.

. Presumably not at the very start of the race like everyone else.

The video claims she actually wandered up to the starting line.

Edit: here is a good example of ultra marathon running being mostly a matter of determination rather than raw stamina. In 1983 a 61 year old man won an Ultra marathon contest. I doubt he was actually the most physically competent racer, he probably just took fewer breaks. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_%28athlete%29

[bombsonyourmom]

Basically if a human can't sprint as long as a dog, I don't see why we should think a human can jog for as long as a dog can trot.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2023 20:48:19 GMT bombsonyourmom said:

Humans being able to run ultra long distances doesn't prove animals can't. There simply isn't a reason for most animals to run for such a long time.

The only ones that do are huskies and horses, both of which are forced to do so by humans and 100 percent objectively better runners.

They aren't. Make a peak endurance runner, a husky and a horse race... but make the finish line 50 miles away, or 100 miles away, or 200 miles away, or 300 miles away. See who wins. See.

And huskies can also only run for such long distances in very cold climates. Humans evolved to specifically be able to chase down animals in the savannahs until they could run no longer. That is the purpose of our lack of hair. It is common sense.

A horse would not out-endure a human. It would not.

[Deleted]

And P.S. those human/horse marathons are a bad argument. The horses won the majority of the time, definitely, at beginning of the race the horses tended to have a 30 minute lead, but towards the end, that advantaged is cut to a couple of minutes.

The humans were catching up to the horses despite the horses having a 30 minute lead.

Now make then race for 50 miles instead of 20-27 miles. Haha.