Cougar vs American bison

[Deleted]

One thing I might hand to supercat... 1 on 1, healthy vs healthy, maybe the mountain lion really IS the closest thing to a bison killer out of north America's predators.

Not really no. Not until the puma has a scientific account like this:

GRIZZLY BEAR PREDATION ON A BULL BISON IN YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK:



redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_163771916383713&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=kwcvh0qe0102ylrr000ML49tqnmds&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fbeargorillarealm.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F47%2Fbrown-bear-predation-all-subspecies%3Fpage%3D5%26scrollTo%3D3582&ccpaConsent=1---&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bearbiology.org%2Ffileadmin%2Ftpl%2FDownloads%2FURSUS%2FVol_13%2FWyman_13.pdf&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fbeargorillarealm.proboards.com%2F&title=Brown%20bear%20predation%20(all%20subspecies)%20%7C%20Bear%20and%20Gorilla%20realm&txt=www.bearbiology.org%2Ffileadmin%2Ftpl%2FDownloads%2FURSUS%2FVol_13%2FWyman_13.pdf

[Hardcastle]

Again, anomalous accounts actually don't move my "needle" at all. Single wolves have killed bison too. One day, who knows, we may get a puma doing it too. I don't care about any of the above. None can actually prey on Bison. All are very useless and very poor incapable bison killers, so the "gold medal" is still very much up for grabs as far as I'm concerned.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2023 14:16:44 GMT Hardcastle said:

Again, anomalous accounts actually don't move my "needle" at all. Single wolves have killed bison too. One day, who knows, we may get a puma doing it too. I don't care about any of the above. None can actually prey on Bison. All are very useless and very poor incapable bison killers, so the "gold medal" is still very much up for grabs as far as I'm concerned.

Single wolves? I dont think so. Whole packs have trouble killing sick bison, some wolves even die, i have several accounts. But ok, accounts dont matter, just logic? Logic tells us bison is out of reach for pumas.

[Deleted]

Their (and your) unbelieving attitude will not by one iota take away the God-given ability that cougars have to kill healthy and non-compromised adult American bison.

Yeah ok, dreaming is free. 4 pumas working together? Sure. Dont make me laugh.

The historic animal > mountain fag.

[Hardcastle]

Yes whole packs absolutely have trouble, whole packs of 14-17 wolves can fail, and yet, single wolves HAVE killed adult Bison. There are a few real scientific accounts. This is confusing ONLY to people who don't understand wolves. I agree it doesn't actually mean a wolf can kill a bison under genuinely fair circumstances, but also it does demonstrate that numbers aren't really the big point people want them to be when it comes to wolves. "well if a big pack fails, then..." isn't the massively demolishing argument so many think it is. A big pack can fail and a single wolf can succeed on the same animal. Numbers don't help wolves anywhere near as much as people assume.

[Deleted]

This is what a bison can do to a wolf pack, bison died, but not before 1 dead, 2 badly injured. A puma is nothing to a bison bro: 








books.google.com.ar/books?id=YAywtv-mSdwC&pg=PA199&dq=Bison+kills+lone+wolf&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bison%20kills%20lone%20wolf&f=false

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

@bisonking

Look, I understand that you are a passionate bison fan, just like I too am a passionate cougar devotee. We both will fight tooth and nail to defend the honour of the animals we love.

I'm talking to you respectfully now, put everything I said in the past. I'm talking to you as a fellow poster who has a right both to speak and to listen to his opponent's propositions.

I don't want this to be any more uncivil than it already is, so instead of dishing out derogatory statements/words, I want to actually proceed to the correction of the fallacies in your posts (a genuine, unbiased correction of flawed lines of thought).

For that, I need to move smoothly and without any interruptions, and I need your assurance that you can give me that. I have listened to what you have to say, so I beseech you to listen to what I have to say.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

@bisonking 


And when I'm done giving my arguments, I'll let you know by saying "I have finished my argument." But until I write that statement down, please do not quote or tag me.

If you do, you will ruin the argument that I am trying to build.

[Hardcastle]

Aug 19, 2023 14:54:04 GMT PumAcinonyx SuperCat said:

I beseech you to listen to what I have to say.

When someone beseeches I feel like you really do have to lower your guard and give them your respect and listen. I personally draw the line before a beseeching.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2023 14:54:04 GMT PumAcinonyx SuperCat said:

@bisonking

Look, I understand that you are a passionate bison fan, just like I too am a passionate cougar devotee. We both will fight tooth and nail to defend the honour of the animals we love.

I'm talking to you respectfully now, put everything I said in the past. I'm talking to you as a fellow poster who has a right both to speak and to listen to his opponent's propositions.

I don't want this to be any more uncivil than it already is, so instead of dishing out derogatory statements/words, I want to actually proceed to the correction of the fallacies in your posts (a genuine, unbiased correction of flawed lines of thought).

For that, I need to move smoothly and without any interruptions, and I need your assurance that you can give me that. I have listened to what you have to say, so I beseech you to listen to what I have to say.

Go ahead.  You have my assurance. Just a side note though, am not here for a long debate, not months, not even weeks, just days. There is not much more to post as accounts are concerned, just our arguments. The bison/puma debate has very little written accounts/reports, and no videos. So when you are done, then i will answer, then you answer back, then me, than you, whatever, but just for a few days. After that, we all think what we want to think. I will wait now.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Thank you @bisonking for understanding.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

I will begin getting my sources.

[grampa]

Frequently Asked Questions: Bison

www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bisonfaq.htm

What predators kill adult bison?
Wolves and grizzly bears can kill adult bison, but predation has little effect on the bison population. Bison usually face their attackers and defend themselves as a group, making them more difficult to kill than animals like elk that run away. The size of bison also plays a role in persuading predators to look for an easier meal.

*I will add, the inland grizzly of Montana and Wyoming are among the smaller brown bear subspecies. They very rarely attack an adult bison cow. For a bull bison, a cougar is no more of a threat than a bobcat.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

That's the problem many people tend to make. 

"Heck, even wolf packs and grizzly bears very hardly ever hunt a healthy adult bison cow", as if the cougar is sitting in one corner and shivering, saying "yikes, even my superiors don't touch bison, who am I to stand a chance?" 

That statement makes me chuckle. I don’t think people have any real comprehension of just how irrelevant wolves and bears are in this conversation. It's error to use those animals as a yardstick for cougars, the height of it. 

And certainly, to people who like myself, know what they are talking about, that statement has less than nothing meaning/relevance/implications. I might as well pretend wolves or bears do not exist. 


Anyways, I'm already getting my posts ready to cleanse Bison King, and this thread of ignorance. Latest, by Wednesday, I will have everything on the board, and every person who chooses to be smart will call it quits on this "cougars cannot prey on bison" nonsense.

[Deleted]

That statement makes me chuckle. I don’t think people have any real comprehension of just how irrelevant wolves and bears are in this conversation. It's error to use those animals as a yardstick for cougars, the height of it.

It makes you "chuckle" because you dont like to read the truth. So in your opinion, a lone puma is a more formidable hunter than a  wolf pack?  Sorry bro, that's fantasy. So if a wolf pack cant, or barely can in sick individuals, than sure as hell a lone 180 lb cat cant. Is a puma a better hunter than a grizzly? That's debatible, but the largest brown bears cant or rarely have done it. A puma is too small, to weak to challenge a bull bison, simple as this.

Anyways, I'm already getting my posts ready to cleanse Bison King, and this thread of ignorance. Latest, by Wednesday, I will have everything on the board, and every person who chooses to be smart will call it quits on this "cougars cannot prey on bison" nonsense.

Dont forget to post scientific charts of puma predation on bull bison. No one will call it "quits" believing what you claim, we will call it"quits" believing common sense, logic, and raw data. See you.