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Feral dog
Apr 14, 2023 18:05:22 GMT
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Post by Bolushi on Apr 14, 2023 18:05:22 GMT
Which wolf are you talking about though thats not fair to compare? most of them. The wolf dogs descended from looked slightly more doggy than the others. Antonio is right it would not stick out like a sore thumb on the chart though. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2023 19:27:12 GMT
Which wolf are you talking about though thats not fair to compare? most of them. The wolf dogs descended from looked slightly more doggy than the others. Antonio is right it would not stick out like a sore thumb on the chart though. Theres a lot of versatility in wolf subspecies. Like on one end you have the Mackenzie or Northwestern wolf which can tackle elk and ranch bison. Then you have the Indian wolf which hasn’t advanced from the Jackal at all. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Apr 15, 2023 2:22:59 GMT
I think I must be, what is the point? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Apr 15, 2023 2:52:34 GMT
most of them. The wolf dogs descended from looked slightly more doggy than the others. Antonio is right it would not stick out like a sore thumb on the chart though. Theres a lot of versatility in wolf subspecies. Like on one end you have the Mackenzie or Northwestern wolf which can tackle elk and ranch bison. Then you have the Indian wolf which hasn’t advanced from the Jackal at all. I think this is true, the wolf seems to be flexible with either stepping back and being a jackal, or putting its "best foot forward" and being a wolf when the niche becomes available. The original emergence of the "wolf wolf" seems to correlate with the disappearance of xenocyon and aenocyon, but even when the wolf takes their place it doesn't become a true pack hunting dog, and retains jackal characteristics. The original evolution of the domestic dog was just another case of the wolf stepping back and reverting to a jackal, one with it's focus geared towards humans, and then it took extra evolutionary steps to specialise on the quirks of humans, to navigate their hostility and exploit them. The way other jackals in the past had exploited hyenas and lions, etc. After humans fully let their guard down and let dogs in (which took thousands and thousands of years of reluctance), dogs would then go on to share their "wolf values" - scenting prey, coursing prey, guarding territories, herding livestock, guarding livestock, etc etc. Dogs became many different animals adapted to these different aspects of the wolf, and elevated above the wolf in their specialised fields. A pack of foxhounds (for example) goes further than the wolf in replicating the "true hunting dogs" (aenocyon, xenocyon, cuon, lycaon, etc) that the wolf aspired to be like. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 3:39:32 GMT
Theres a lot of versatility in wolf subspecies. Like on one end you have the Mackenzie or Northwestern wolf which can tackle elk and ranch bison. Then you have the Indian wolf which hasn’t advanced from the Jackal at all. I think this is true, the wolf seems to be flexible with either stepping back and being a jackal, or putting its "best foot forward" and being a wolf when the niche becomes available. The original emergence of the "wolf wolf" seems to correlate with the disappearance of xenocyon and aenocyon, but even when the wolf takes their place it doesn't become a true pack hunting dog, and retains jackal characteristics. The original evolution of the domestic dog was just another case of the wolf stepping back and reverting to a jackal, one with it's focus geared towards humans, and then it took extra evolutionary steps to specialise on the quirks of humans, to navigate their hostility and exploit them. The way other jackals in the past had exploited hyenas and lions, etc. After humans fully let their guard down and let dogs in (which took thousands and thousands of years of reluctance), dogs would then go on to share their "wolf values" - scenting prey, coursing prey, guarding territories, herding livestock, guarding livestock, etc etc. Dogs became many different animals adapted to these different aspects of the wolf, and elevated above the wolf in their specialised fields. A pack of foxhounds (for example) goes further than the wolf in replicating the "true hunting dogs" (aenocyon, xenocyon, cuon, lycaon, etc) that the wolf aspired to be like. Very good post! |
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Post by Bolushi on Apr 15, 2023 6:02:23 GMT
I think I must be, what is the point? The point is a lot of feral dogs look like wolves, they don't look as much as the modern ones as they do their slightly more doggy ancestor. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 16:43:47 GMT
Theres a lot of versatility in wolf subspecies. Like on one end you have the Mackenzie or Northwestern wolf which can tackle elk and ranch bison. Then you have the Indian wolf which hasn’t advanced from the Jackal at all. I think this is true, the wolf seems to be flexible with either stepping back and being a jackal, or putting its "best foot forward" and being a wolf when the niche becomes available. The original emergence of the "wolf wolf" seems to correlate with the disappearance of xenocyon and aenocyon, but even when the wolf takes their place it doesn't become a true pack hunting dog, and retains jackal characteristics. The original evolution of the domestic dog was just another case of the wolf stepping back and reverting to a jackal, one with it's focus geared towards humans, and then it took extra evolutionary steps to specialise on the quirks of humans, to navigate their hostility and exploit them. The way other jackals in the past had exploited hyenas and lions, etc. After humans fully let their guard down and let dogs in (which took thousands and thousands of years of reluctance), dogs would then go on to share their "wolf values" - scenting prey, coursing prey, guarding territories, herding livestock, guarding livestock, etc etc. Dogs became many different animals adapted to these different aspects of the wolf, and elevated above the wolf in their specialised fields. A pack of foxhounds (for example) goes further than the wolf in replicating the "true hunting dogs" (aenocyon, xenocyon, cuon, lycaon, etc) that the wolf aspired to be like. Thats agreeable. The Mackenzie/Northeastern wolf has the luxury of having lots of various game species they can hunt, like sick, weak, aged or young moose, bison, elk, muskoxen, mule deer, white-tailed deer, wild boar, foxes, beavers, otters, raccoons, possums, rabbits and hares, rodents and moles. Theres a wide range of game for them to hunt. The Indian wolf does not have this luxury, and not much game to hunt, and if not comparable, therefore it has reverted to the Jackal stage. The one thing i’d disagree with is only the Foxhounds. Yes, Foxhounds have unusually large packs. But thats the only thing that their packs share in common with the pack hunting dogs. All Foxhounds are their own individual, they have extreme sexual dimorphism, and they fight a lot over stupid shit. Loose and sloppy applies to their packs as well, but i’d probably give them a break. Their packs can appear tight-knit since they are always together, but if you look deeper its as loose and sloppy as the rest of the wolves. |
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Feral dog
Apr 15, 2023 21:21:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bolushi on Apr 15, 2023 21:21:50 GMT
I think this is true, the wolf seems to be flexible with either stepping back and being a jackal, or putting its "best foot forward" and being a wolf when the niche becomes available. The original emergence of the "wolf wolf" seems to correlate with the disappearance of xenocyon and aenocyon, but even when the wolf takes their place it doesn't become a true pack hunting dog, and retains jackal characteristics. The original evolution of the domestic dog was just another case of the wolf stepping back and reverting to a jackal, one with it's focus geared towards humans, and then it took extra evolutionary steps to specialise on the quirks of humans, to navigate their hostility and exploit them. The way other jackals in the past had exploited hyenas and lions, etc. After humans fully let their guard down and let dogs in (which took thousands and thousands of years of reluctance), dogs would then go on to share their "wolf values" - scenting prey, coursing prey, guarding territories, herding livestock, guarding livestock, etc etc. Dogs became many different animals adapted to these different aspects of the wolf, and elevated above the wolf in their specialised fields. A pack of foxhounds (for example) goes further than the wolf in replicating the "true hunting dogs" (aenocyon, xenocyon, cuon, lycaon, etc) that the wolf aspired to be like. Thats agreeable. The Mackenzie/Northeastern wolf has the luxury of having lots of various game species they can hunt, like sick, weak, aged or young moose, bison, elk, muskoxen, mule deer, white-tailed deer, wild boar, foxes, beavers, otters, raccoons, possums, rabbits and hares, rodents and moles. Theres a wide range of game for them to hunt. The Indian wolf does not have this luxury, and not much game to hunt, and if not comparable, therefore it has reverted to the Jackal stage. The one thing i’d disagree with is only the Foxhounds. Yes, Foxhounds have unusually large packs. But thats the only thing that their packs share in common with the pack hunting dogs. All Foxhounds are their own individual, they have extreme sexual dimorphism, and they fight a lot over stupid shit. Loose and sloppy applies to their packs as well, but i’d probably give them a break. Their packs can appear tight-knit since they are always together, but if you look deeper its as loose and sloppy as the rest of the wolves. ExTeemeee sexual dimorrphismmsmm??!?!?!! |
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