|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Feb 27, 2023 15:07:03 GMT
Don't smile. That is very sad. Understandable and forgivable, but sad IMO.
I'm starting to think I need to go on a nice guy tour to get more people to come. People really dislike me, I am discovering. Lol. I mean they ARE wrong, but I feel like I need to start entertaining the idea that I could possibly improve the situation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 18:06:29 GMT
This is an excellent thread. Wyatt : "They [feral dogs] have amazing endurance and can run marathons and can vary, but most end up looking like wolves" I might be having a brain fart here but why then does something like dingo, a long-time wild dog, not appear to be very wolf-like appearance? Though granted you did say "most" feral dogs end up looking like wolves, implying exceptions. I agree with you, but maybe he means when considering the great diversity of dog breeds, then sure dingoes are basically somewhat wolf-like I guess. But yeah I wouldn't say so. The "lupine" aesthetic to me is wolves, coyotes, jackals, continental herders and spitz breeds. That's about it. And out of the continental herders the malinois is "transitioning" to a "dog" aesthetic, which is how I'd describe the appearance of feral dogs and dingoes and etc. And by dog aesthetic I'm even harking back to primitive "dogs" like dholes and awds. The lupine aesthetic to me could also be considered a "jackal" aesthetic. Canids could possibly be divided at a fundamental level to foxes, jackals, and dogs. Wolves, as I have said elsewhere, are actually kind of a giant social-leaning jackal. That's their history and to me their appearance. The "dogs" would be the extremely social pack units like dholes and AWDs and bushdogs and quite a few extinct species. Then you have foxes which are stealthy and sneaky elusive lower trophic level carnivores. Domestic dogs, despite being wolves and thus genetically from a jackal-like background, start looking at least superficially doggy in many instances. They don't have the pack cohesion or the lack of sexual dimorphism or the weird communicative vocalisations or anything, but some start getting a doggy look. Dingoes included (which do yodel, but was thinking more of the strange chirping and etc the "true dogs" do among themselves in their massive tight knit social units. To me (and no one else says this btw, it's just a me thing) wolves are an extension of the jackal strain and by extension of that extension domestic dogs are too, BUT they are incidentally doggish in appearance in many cases. The lupine domestic dogs are a minority. And for the record I have a strong instinctual aversion to lupine looking dogs. Don't know what it is, don't like them. Seems to be in my blood. I believe it's actually a commonality that may have been shared with stone-age humans. Who absolutely had zero tolerance for wolves and jackals, BUT let their guard down for dingoes who started looking dog-esque as opposed to lupine. I have that same instinct and feel like I understand. I just can't bring myself to like german shepherds for example, or huskies. I just viscerally shirk at them. This is true. But you’re looking at it from the Dingo perspective of evolution in Australia. Dingoes in hot Australian heat have short coats, and a doggy appearance. But if you look at Dingoes in colder climates you would find they look a lot more like wolves:   This also applies to feral dogs:      Even if they don’t look exactly like wolves, they certainly have lupine features. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 21:58:37 GMT
Don't smile. That is very sad. Understandable and forgivable, but sad IMO. I'm starting to think I need to go on a nice guy tour to get more people to come. People really dislike me, I am discovering. Lol. I mean they ARE wrong, but I feel like I need to start entertaining the idea that I could possibly improve the situation. Just remember God loves you and you'll be smiling all day 🤗 Kidding of course, please don't do "God". I think you're as liked and unliked as the rest of us, apart from OGG who is univerally enjoyed. I'd like it so when someone does a google search on say "cheetah", a cheetah Food Chain thread comes up in the search list. And same with like "leopard", "lion", "bears", "wolves", all the really popular animal search titles. I'll see if my dad wants to help me during his visit, he's way more computer literate than I am, not like your father but he's still got a masters in IT and unlike me actually likes teching around on computers. He might not want to bother with it but I'll ask. Oh I almost forgot, take care 😁👌 (now it's getting weird) lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 22:27:56 GMT
I agree with you, but maybe he means when considering the great diversity of dog breeds, then sure dingoes are basically somewhat wolf-like I guess. But yeah I wouldn't say so. The "lupine" aesthetic to me is wolves, coyotes, jackals, continental herders and spitz breeds. That's about it. And out of the continental herders the malinois is "transitioning" to a "dog" aesthetic, which is how I'd describe the appearance of feral dogs and dingoes and etc. And by dog aesthetic I'm even harking back to primitive "dogs" like dholes and awds. The lupine aesthetic to me could also be considered a "jackal" aesthetic. Canids could possibly be divided at a fundamental level to foxes, jackals, and dogs. Wolves, as I have said elsewhere, are actually kind of a giant social-leaning jackal. That's their history and to me their appearance. The "dogs" would be the extremely social pack units like dholes and AWDs and bushdogs and quite a few extinct species. Then you have foxes which are stealthy and sneaky elusive lower trophic level carnivores. Domestic dogs, despite being wolves and thus genetically from a jackal-like background, start looking at least superficially doggy in many instances. They don't have the pack cohesion or the lack of sexual dimorphism or the weird communicative vocalisations or anything, but some start getting a doggy look. Dingoes included (which do yodel, but was thinking more of the strange chirping and etc the "true dogs" do among themselves in their massive tight knit social units. To me (and no one else says this btw, it's just a me thing) wolves are an extension of the jackal strain and by extension of that extension domestic dogs are too, BUT they are incidentally doggish in appearance in many cases. The lupine domestic dogs are a minority. And for the record I have a strong instinctual aversion to lupine looking dogs. Don't know what it is, don't like them. Seems to be in my blood. I believe it's actually a commonality that may have been shared with stone-age humans. Who absolutely had zero tolerance for wolves and jackals, BUT let their guard down for dingoes who started looking dog-esque as opposed to lupine. I have that same instinct and feel like I understand. I just can't bring myself to like german shepherds for example, or huskies. I just viscerally shirk at them. This is true. But you’re looking at it from the Dingo perspective of evolution in Australia. Dingoes in hot Australian heat have short coats, and a doggy appearance. But if you look at Dingoes in colder climates you would find they look a lot more like wolves: View AttachmentView AttachmentThis also applies to feral dogs: View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentEven if they don’t look exactly like wolves, they certainly have lupine features. Judging by this thread you've got way more animal smarts than we were led to believe based off that Ranking Members By Intelligence thread, I was basically reading these posts with jaw dropped wide open. Legit you have much to teach and share on this subject and I'll be tuning in more. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 20:32:57 GMT
This is an excellent thread. Wyatt : "They [feral dogs] have amazing endurance and can run marathons and can vary, but most end up looking like wolves" I might be having a brain fart here but why then does something like dingo, a long-time wild dog, not appear to be very wolf-like appearance? Though granted you did say "most" feral dogs end up looking like wolves, implying exceptions. I agree with you, but maybe he means when considering the great diversity of dog breeds, then sure dingoes are basically somewhat wolf-like I guess. But yeah I wouldn't say so. The "lupine" aesthetic to me is wolves, coyotes, jackals, continental herders and spitz breeds. That's about it. And out of the continental herders the malinois is "transitioning" to a "dog" aesthetic, which is how I'd describe the appearance of feral dogs and dingoes and etc. And by dog aesthetic I'm even harking back to primitive "dogs" like dholes and awds. The lupine aesthetic to me could also be considered a "jackal" aesthetic. Canids could possibly be divided at a fundamental level to foxes, jackals, and dogs. Wolves, as I have said elsewhere, are actually kind of a giant social-leaning jackal. That's their history and to me their appearance. The "dogs" would be the extremely social pack units like dholes and AWDs and bushdogs and quite a few extinct species. Then you have foxes which are stealthy and sneaky elusive lower trophic level carnivores. Domestic dogs, despite being wolves and thus genetically from a jackal-like background, start looking at least superficially doggy in many instances. They don't have the pack cohesion or the lack of sexual dimorphism or the weird communicative vocalisations or anything, but some start getting a doggy look. Dingoes included (which do yodel, but was thinking more of the strange chirping and etc the "true dogs" do among themselves in their massive tight knit social units. To me (and no one else says this btw, it's just a me thing) wolves are an extension of the jackal strain and by extension of that extension domestic dogs are too, BUT they are incidentally doggish in appearance in many cases. The lupine domestic dogs are a minority. And for the record I have a strong instinctual aversion to lupine looking dogs. Don't know what it is, don't like them. Seems to be in my blood. I believe it's actually a commonality that may have been shared with stone-age humans. Who absolutely had zero tolerance for wolves and jackals, BUT let their guard down for dingoes who started looking dog-esque as opposed to lupine. I have that same instinct and feel like I understand. I just can't bring myself to like german shepherds for example, or huskies. I just viscerally shirk at them. Do all "wild" canid (whether jackal, fox, wolf, coyote, dingo, awd, bushdog...) all differ from domestic dog in the head-width being wider than the shoulder-width? I'm sure you've seen it but a lady running a dingo sanctuary said in a doco that unlike domestic dog, a dingo's head is wider than its shoulders. I was wondering whether at large that was a "wild" canid trait of which dingo is simply included. She also said the dingo's head can swivel right around and actually demonstrated it on one of her dingos. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Feb 28, 2023 20:40:39 GMT
I think they just have very narrow bodies, and yes it might be a "wild dog wide" feature.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 10:05:23 GMT
This is an excellent thread. Wyatt : "They [feral dogs] have amazing endurance and can run marathons and can vary, but most end up looking like wolves" I might be having a brain fart here but why then does something like dingo, a long-time wild dog, not appear to be very wolf-like appearance? Though granted you did say "most" feral dogs end up looking like wolves, implying exceptions. I agree with you, but maybe he means when considering the great diversity of dog breeds, then sure dingoes are basically somewhat wolf-like I guess. But yeah I wouldn't say so. The "lupine" aesthetic to me is wolves, coyotes, jackals, continental herders and spitz breeds. That's about it. And out of the continental herders the malinois is "transitioning" to a "dog" aesthetic, which is how I'd describe the appearance of feral dogs and dingoes and etc. And by dog aesthetic I'm even harking back to primitive "dogs" like dholes and awds. The lupine aesthetic to me could also be considered a "jackal" aesthetic. Canids could possibly be divided at a fundamental level to foxes, jackals, and dogs. Wolves, as I have said elsewhere, are actually kind of a giant social-leaning jackal. That's their history and to me their appearance. The "dogs" would be the extremely social pack units like dholes and AWDs and bushdogs and quite a few extinct species. Then you have foxes which are stealthy and sneaky elusive lower trophic level carnivores. Domestic dogs, despite being wolves and thus genetically from a jackal-like background, start looking at least superficially doggy in many instances. They don't have the pack cohesion or the lack of sexual dimorphism or the weird communicative vocalisations or anything, but some start getting a doggy look. Dingoes included (which do yodel, but was thinking more of the strange chirping and etc the "true dogs" do among themselves in their massive tight knit social units. To me (and no one else says this btw, it's just a me thing) wolves are an extension of the jackal strain and by extension of that extension domestic dogs are too, BUT they are incidentally doggish in appearance in many cases. The lupine domestic dogs are a minority. And for the record I have a strong instinctual aversion to lupine looking dogs. Don't know what it is, don't like them. Seems to be in my blood. I believe it's actually a commonality that may have been shared with stone-age humans. Who absolutely had zero tolerance for wolves and jackals, BUT let their guard down for dingoes who started looking dog-esque as opposed to lupine. I have that same instinct and feel like I understand. I just can't bring myself to like german shepherds for example, or huskies. I just viscerally shirk at them. Extremely late but a response I never did to these. Lupine domestic dogs I wouldn’t say are a minority, more they just aren’t common. And why stone age humans had that opinion for the lupine appearance is not because they hated wolves, its more that they needed to separate domestic wolves from wild wolves. It would be way harder and a brain fuck for them to try to tell the difference between a domesticated wolf and a wild wolf. Personally, i’ll go more in depth on the other board, but personally me in my opinion I like lupine dogs. Its just what fits me. I want a dog that can go through a forest and people think “wolf.” Where as on the other hand, for example if I got a doggy-looking dog, like a Golden Retriever or Pitbull, everyone would be like “aww poor puppy, hope it doesn’t get eaten by coyotes!” |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Apr 13, 2023 11:53:23 GMT
I agree with you, but maybe he means when considering the great diversity of dog breeds, then sure dingoes are basically somewhat wolf-like I guess. But yeah I wouldn't say so. The "lupine" aesthetic to me is wolves, coyotes, jackals, continental herders and spitz breeds. That's about it. And out of the continental herders the malinois is "transitioning" to a "dog" aesthetic, which is how I'd describe the appearance of feral dogs and dingoes and etc. And by dog aesthetic I'm even harking back to primitive "dogs" like dholes and awds. The lupine aesthetic to me could also be considered a "jackal" aesthetic. Canids could possibly be divided at a fundamental level to foxes, jackals, and dogs. Wolves, as I have said elsewhere, are actually kind of a giant social-leaning jackal. That's their history and to me their appearance. The "dogs" would be the extremely social pack units like dholes and AWDs and bushdogs and quite a few extinct species. Then you have foxes which are stealthy and sneaky elusive lower trophic level carnivores. Domestic dogs, despite being wolves and thus genetically from a jackal-like background, start looking at least superficially doggy in many instances. They don't have the pack cohesion or the lack of sexual dimorphism or the weird communicative vocalisations or anything, but some start getting a doggy look. Dingoes included (which do yodel, but was thinking more of the strange chirping and etc the "true dogs" do among themselves in their massive tight knit social units. To me (and no one else says this btw, it's just a me thing) wolves are an extension of the jackal strain and by extension of that extension domestic dogs are too, BUT they are incidentally doggish in appearance in many cases. The lupine domestic dogs are a minority. And for the record I have a strong instinctual aversion to lupine looking dogs. Don't know what it is, don't like them. Seems to be in my blood. I believe it's actually a commonality that may have been shared with stone-age humans. Who absolutely had zero tolerance for wolves and jackals, BUT let their guard down for dingoes who started looking dog-esque as opposed to lupine. I have that same instinct and feel like I understand. I just can't bring myself to like german shepherds for example, or huskies. I just viscerally shirk at them. Extremely late but a response I never did to these. Lupine domestic dogs I wouldn’t say are a minority, more they just aren’t common. And why stone age humans had that opinion for the lupine appearance is not because they hated wolves, its more that they needed to separate domestic wolves from wild wolves. It would be way harder and a brain fuck for them to try to tell the difference between a domesticated wolf and a wild wolf. Personally, i’ll go more in depth on the other board, but personally me in my opinion I like lupine dogs. Its just what fits me. I want a dog that can go through a forest and people think “wolf.” Where as on the other hand, for example if I got a doggy-looking dog, like a Golden Retriever or Pitbull, everyone would be like “aww poor puppy, hope it doesn’t get eaten by coyotes!” I'm a "dog guy", and I don't like lupine dogs. I like awds, dholes, dingoes, dislike wolves, jackals and coyotes. Then with domestic dogs I don't like continental herders and spitz breeds due to their lupine features. Just my taste. Of course, doesn't mean I like all doggy dogs. I simultaneously dislike "silly goofy pet" looking dogs and heavy sloppy oaf looking dogs. I like rugged rough and tumble functional mongrel dogs, if people see dogs like these and thinks "poor puppies, hope they don't get eaten!", well I guess they'll be in for a surprise when they massacre the wildlife-  I just want to correct one thing - I referred to awds and dholes as "primitive", this is extremely inaccurate, they're actually the least primitive canines alive, and aenocyon (dire wolf) and xenocyon, canis armbrusteri and canis Chihliensis are the other most modern and advanced and least primitive dogs. Wolves and coyotes and jackals are actually more primitive. |
|
|
|
Feral dog
Apr 13, 2023 18:00:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bolushi on Apr 13, 2023 18:00:33 GMT
When I get to my computer today I will show you, but many feral dogs look like wolves. You all seem confused.
|
|
|
|
Feral dog
Apr 14, 2023 0:09:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hardcastle on Apr 14, 2023 0:09:50 GMT
Some do, some don't. I can see how most are almost like "transitionary" between lupine and dog-like. They're more likely to look wolfish in colder countries of course.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Apr 14, 2023 1:03:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Apr 14, 2023 9:13:37 GMT
It was definitely a wolf... That "extinct ancestor" thing is way overblown and way too frequently misunderstood. Most wolf-subspecies went extinct, it's not that huge of a deal, and it wasn't a mysterious extinct animal where we don't know what it was. There are currently 20 or so subspecies of wolf (some say 32 but I believe that's a bit of poetic license), there used to be hundreds. So yeah the specific subspecies that dogs descend from is extinct the same way most wolf subspecies are extinct. But... it was still just a wolf. May have been kind of small and jackal-ish with it's behaviour, would make sense. But it was still just a wolf, nothing too weird or different. Infographic-  It wouldn't have "stood out" in the top 4 rows. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2023 11:00:48 GMT
It was definitely a wolf... That "extinct ancestor" thing is way overblown and way too frequently misunderstood. Most wolf-subspecies went extinct, it's not that huge of a deal, and it wasn't a mysterious extinct animal where we don't know what it was. There are currently 20 or so subspecies of wolf (some say 32 but I believe that's a bit of poetic license), there used to be hundreds. So yeah the specific subspecies that dogs descend from is extinct the same way most wolf subspecies are extinct. But... it was still just a wolf. May have been kind of small and jackal-ish with it's behaviour, would make sense. But it was still just a wolf, nothing too weird or different. Infographic- It wouldn't have "stood out" in the top 4 rows. Woah. Hardcastle, I 100% agree. Many people (and sadly, Bolushi, still appreciate bringing it up) take the “extinct wolf” idea from scientists way too far and twist it. They try to make it seem like the extinct wolf was far from the wolves we see today. And no its not, definitely. Yes, scientists said the population of wolves dogs descended from may be extinct but its still something to highlight on. I’d argue the wolf population that dogs descended from aren’t Jackal-like because the Taymir wolf seems very close to the Northeastern wolf, in appearance and behavior. |
|
|
|
Feral dog
Apr 14, 2023 17:33:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bolushi on Apr 14, 2023 17:33:28 GMT
Missing the point...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2023 17:55:03 GMT
Which wolf are you talking about though thats not fair to compare? |
|
