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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 2:38:56 GMT
You left out the other side of the argument that tell the opposite story. There are multiple other hunters that say otherwise, read the whole thread don't cherry pick my guy. Maybe if I got a "oh yeah one of my dogs got killed by a bobcat in a culvert" I wouldn't've linked the thread at all. Nope, these people seen how a dog kills a bobcat but yet nobody else has seen how a bobcat kills a dog. There is no "opposite story" but there is "oh yeah bobcats are tough! Claws are like razorblades! Uhh, yeah my hounds have never been hurt by them bu- anyways shut up bobcats are tough as hell!" Find evidence of hunters saying how a bobcat killed their dog. The only thing I've heard of is the ever rare large bobcat killing a terrier in culverts. A "large bobcat" for some of these people would be like 20lbs lol. Some dude was talking about how his dogs caught a killed a bobcat single handedly! Awesome right? Nope, it was a 15lb female sub adult. The reason coyotes are seen as more durable is because the bobcats these dudes are setting their dogs on are like half the size. Texas bobcats also aren't "25-30lbs" hell no, more like 15-20lbs. Not to mention the fact that they run the bobcat to exhaustion first if its caught out in the open, from which it will simply die from a heat stroke. Seriously, read through all of those responses there are actually more praising the bobcat than vise versa, stop cherry picking. |
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Post by Bolushi on Mar 9, 2023 2:41:43 GMT
Maybe if I got a "oh yeah one of my dogs got killed by a bobcat in a culvert" I wouldn't've linked the thread at all. Nope, these people seen how a dog kills a bobcat but yet nobody else has seen how a bobcat kills a dog. There is no "opposite story" but there is "oh yeah bobcats are tough! Claws are like razorblades! Uhh, yeah my hounds have never been hurt by them bu- anyways shut up bobcats are tough as hell!" Find evidence of hunters saying how a bobcat killed their dog. The only thing I've heard of is the ever rare large bobcat killing a terrier in culverts. A "large bobcat" for some of these people would be like 20lbs lol. Some dude was talking about how his dogs caught a killed a bobcat single handedly! Awesome right? Nope, it was a 15lb female sub adult. The reason coyotes are seen as more durable is because the bobcats these dudes are setting their dogs on are like half the size. Texas bobcats also aren't "25-30lbs" hell no, more like 15-20lbs. Not to mention the fact that they run the bobcat to exhaustion first if its caught out in the open, from which it will simply die from a heat stroke. Seriously, read through all of those responses there are actually more praising the bobcat than vise versa, stop cherry picking. Shut the fuck up if you don't know shit about the topic, this is the last thing I will say to you. These are the most cowardly dogs, who hunt things by scent, to tree for people with guns. Bobcats are so motherfucking shit that a hound, the most cowardly dogs that exist, doesn't respect it at all. Running dogs aren't "set on", and you can't hunt withoute90irwui98045ui34k43 You know what I'm not even going to bother, too dumb. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 3:07:37 GMT
A "large bobcat" for some of these people would be like 20lbs lol. Some dude was talking about how his dogs caught a killed a bobcat single handedly! Awesome right? Nope, it was a 15lb female sub adult. The reason coyotes are seen as more durable is because the bobcats these dudes are setting their dogs on are like half the size. Texas bobcats also aren't "25-30lbs" hell no, more like 15-20lbs. Not to mention the fact that they run the bobcat to exhaustion first if its caught out in the open, from which it will simply die from a heat stroke. Seriously, read through all of those responses there are actually more praising the bobcat than vise versa, stop cherry picking. Shut the fuck up if you don't know shit about the topic, this is the last thing I will say to you. These are the most cowardly dogs, who hunt things by scent, to tree for people with guns. Bobcats are so motherfucking shit that a hound, the most cowardly dogs that exist, doesn't respect it at all. Running dogs aren't "set on", and you can't hunt withoute90irwui98045ui34k43 You know what I'm not even going to bother, too dumb. Direct quotes: Bearcat "Over the years I have caught a number of coyotes on the ground (I even had my dogs kill and eat one once before I found them) and have never had them fail to kill one unless it was a lone dog and I got there fairly quickly. (yes I consider them trash but sometimes I have trashy dogs.) I have caught lots of bobcats on the ground on the coast, here 95% of them will tree, where I used to hunt on the coast in some areas you would catch 95% on the ground. I don't know that a bobcat is harder to kill than a coyote unless it is in a hole,culvert or beaver pond, but I garuantee that on average they will do a lot more damage to your dogs in the process. If the dogs have the wind puched out of the cat and catch out where they can get ahold of it a lot of times they don't have much fight left in them, but if they get in a creek, usually where they catch them, or a briar patch, or brush pile it can be a whole 'nuther story. And a couple of times I have got after big toms that didn't want to run. And I'll take a 75-80lb bear over a 30+ lb bobcat that is fresh and not tired from running any day. Yes a good aggressive pack of cat dogs will kill it a lot easier, but I'll have a lot more dogs to stitch up and be laid up from infections." "I'd rather take a 80lb bear over a 30lb well rested bobcat" bobcats do much more damage than coyotes. Bluetickstyle "I'm just a dang ole coon hunter, but have got two bobcats off my dogs. The first one they put in a hole and right as we were walkin out my blue dog came out with it on his head!!! There were two dogs my bluetick and my buddies walker, and that cat put a pretty good wooping on em both. One of em finally broke it down it was paralyzed i had to shoot it, it could only bite em couln'd use it's legs but was still latching on until I eased it's pain. We weighed it and it was only 12lbs8oz!!...... from what i hear thats small for a cat, but every one I've ever seen here in southeast Tennessee was about that size. The second one I got off my dogs was two years later was hunting my two blue's and every time I would get almost to the tree they would break. I thought it was a bear but never heard no limbs a cracking. I finally made it in there and looked up and seen that cat and new from the last fight that I wanted it dead when it hit the ground!! Never had a run in with any coyote's with my dogs but I'll say that a bobcat pound for pound is one mean lil fighter." Never mind, it appears the Bobcats these dudes are hunting are much smaller than what I even previously thought. A 12lb bobcat gave a whooping to 2 scent hounds and the guy describes bobcats as "lb for lb mean little fighters" "I dont know where most of you guy's are hunting your cat's but I'm guessing that the majority of you are talking about smaller cat's 10-25 lbs. A 35lb cat is a wrecking ball, at least here in michigan, we run cat's and coyotes and both mine and my buddies dog's catch and grab, whether its a coyote or a cat. A big cat 35-40+ will absolutely overwhelm a lone hound, the tougher the dog is just means he'll be beat up that much more at the end of the hunt. Maybe our cat's here in the U.P. are just plain mean." Funny how when Bobcats get as large as the average coyote suddenly the bobcat is the more dangerous one. The bobcats these dudes are hunting are in the 10-15lb range. |
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Post by Bolushi on Mar 9, 2023 3:24:50 GMT
Shut the fuck up if you don't know shit about the topic, this is the last thing I will say to you. These are the most cowardly dogs, who hunt things by scent, to tree for people with guns. Bobcats are so motherfucking shit that a hound, the most cowardly dogs that exist, doesn't respect it at all. Running dogs aren't "set on", and you can't hunt withoute90irwui98045ui34k43 You know what I'm not even going to bother, too dumb. Direct quotes: Bearcat "Over the years I have caught a number of coyotes on the ground (I even had my dogs kill and eat one once before I found them) and have never had them fail to kill one unless it was a lone dog and I got there fairly quickly. (yes I consider them trash but sometimes I have trashy dogs.) I have caught lots of bobcats on the ground on the coast, here 95% of them will tree, where I used to hunt on the coast in some areas you would catch 95% on the ground. I don't know that a bobcat is harder to kill than a coyote unless it is in a hole,culvert or beaver pond, but I garuantee that on average they will do a lot more damage to your dogs in the process. If the dogs have the wind puched out of the cat and catch out where they can get ahold of it a lot of times they don't have much fight left in them, but if they get in a creek, usually where they catch them, or a briar patch, or brush pile it can be a whole 'nuther story. And a couple of times I have got after big toms that didn't want to run. And I'll take a 75-80lb bear over a 30+ lb bobcat that is fresh and not tired from running any day. Yes a good aggressive pack of cat dogs will kill it a lot easier, but I'll have a lot more dogs to stitch up and be laid up from infections." "I'd rather take a 80lb bear over a 30lb well rested bobcat" bobcats do much more damage than coyotes. Bluetickstyle "I'm just a dang ole coon hunter, but have got two bobcats off my dogs. The first one they put in a hole and right as we were walkin out my blue dog came out with it on his head!!! There were two dogs my bluetick and my buddies walker, and that cat put a pretty good wooping on em both. One of em finally broke it down it was paralyzed i had to shoot it, it could only bite em couln'd use it's legs but was still latching on until I eased it's pain. We weighed it and it was only 12lbs8oz!!...... from what i hear thats small for a cat, but every one I've ever seen here in southeast Tennessee was about that size. The second one I got off my dogs was two years later was hunting my two blue's and every time I would get almost to the tree they would break. I thought it was a bear but never heard no limbs a cracking. I finally made it in there and looked up and seen that cat and new from the last fight that I wanted it dead when it hit the ground!! Never had a run in with any coyote's with my dogs but I'll say that a bobcat pound for pound is one mean lil fighter." Never mind, it appears the Bobcats these dudes are hunting are much smaller than what I even previously thought. A 12lb bobcat gave a whooping to 2 scent hounds and the guy describes bobcats as "lb for lb mean little fighters" "I dont know where most of you guy's are hunting your cat's but I'm guessing that the majority of you are talking about smaller cat's 10-25 lbs. A 35lb cat is a wrecking ball, at least here in michigan, we run cat's and coyotes and both mine and my buddies dog's catch and grab, whether its a coyote or a cat. A big cat 35-40+ will absolutely overwhelm a lone hound, the tougher the dog is just means he'll be beat up that much more at the end of the hunt. Maybe our cat's here in the U.P. are just plain mean." Funny how when Bobcats get as large as the average coyote suddenly the bobcat is the more dangerous one. The bobcats these dudes are hunting are in the 10-15lb range. Oh wow an actual half decent post. Okay, this might actually look a little bad should I not respond. "A large tom bobcat can give a dog some nasty infections." is what we can shorten that down to. They describe infections, and being beaten up, by exceptionally large bobcats mind you. Wow! The most cowardly dog in the animal kingdom against the best of the best bobcat could have issues? Oh goodness me, what a surprise. Also, a 12lb bobcat hanging onto a scenthound's head that isn't fighting back and instead trying to run is pretty cool, amazing how one bite left the cat paralyzed implying the other dog didn't bite the cat at all. Also the bobcat was in a hole, so it automatically got the first shot. They didn't compare the bobcat with coyote, so... but sure a large male bobcat can give a hound some hurt. You act like we're starting from a high point when we're starting from the lowest point we can possibly start from and there are still zero deaths. Where are the deaths? Or serious wounds? I'm not hearing about serious wounds. Just scratches. And all dog victories. Yeah of course he'd say that, he didn't say they were good. Just mean. He didn't say "bobcats are good p4p fighters, man, I wouldn't bet on much against a similar sized bobcat!" but even if he did it is overwhelmed by other testimonies. All of this stuff is. And that bobcat was assuredly a female. So 12lbs, sure. Bobcats are also very gracile on account of their fragility so again 12lbs is all well and good. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 3:49:07 GMT
Direct quotes: Bearcat "Over the years I have caught a number of coyotes on the ground (I even had my dogs kill and eat one once before I found them) and have never had them fail to kill one unless it was a lone dog and I got there fairly quickly. (yes I consider them trash but sometimes I have trashy dogs.) I have caught lots of bobcats on the ground on the coast, here 95% of them will tree, where I used to hunt on the coast in some areas you would catch 95% on the ground. I don't know that a bobcat is harder to kill than a coyote unless it is in a hole,culvert or beaver pond, but I garuantee that on average they will do a lot more damage to your dogs in the process. If the dogs have the wind puched out of the cat and catch out where they can get ahold of it a lot of times they don't have much fight left in them, but if they get in a creek, usually where they catch them, or a briar patch, or brush pile it can be a whole 'nuther story. And a couple of times I have got after big toms that didn't want to run. And I'll take a 75-80lb bear over a 30+ lb bobcat that is fresh and not tired from running any day. Yes a good aggressive pack of cat dogs will kill it a lot easier, but I'll have a lot more dogs to stitch up and be laid up from infections." "I'd rather take a 80lb bear over a 30lb well rested bobcat" bobcats do much more damage than coyotes. Bluetickstyle "I'm just a dang ole coon hunter, but have got two bobcats off my dogs. The first one they put in a hole and right as we were walkin out my blue dog came out with it on his head!!! There were two dogs my bluetick and my buddies walker, and that cat put a pretty good wooping on em both. One of em finally broke it down it was paralyzed i had to shoot it, it could only bite em couln'd use it's legs but was still latching on until I eased it's pain. We weighed it and it was only 12lbs8oz!!...... from what i hear thats small for a cat, but every one I've ever seen here in southeast Tennessee was about that size. The second one I got off my dogs was two years later was hunting my two blue's and every time I would get almost to the tree they would break. I thought it was a bear but never heard no limbs a cracking. I finally made it in there and looked up and seen that cat and new from the last fight that I wanted it dead when it hit the ground!! Never had a run in with any coyote's with my dogs but I'll say that a bobcat pound for pound is one mean lil fighter." Never mind, it appears the Bobcats these dudes are hunting are much smaller than what I even previously thought. A 12lb bobcat gave a whooping to 2 scent hounds and the guy describes bobcats as "lb for lb mean little fighters" "I dont know where most of you guy's are hunting your cat's but I'm guessing that the majority of you are talking about smaller cat's 10-25 lbs. A 35lb cat is a wrecking ball, at least here in michigan, we run cat's and coyotes and both mine and my buddies dog's catch and grab, whether its a coyote or a cat. A big cat 35-40+ will absolutely overwhelm a lone hound, the tougher the dog is just means he'll be beat up that much more at the end of the hunt. Maybe our cat's here in the U.P. are just plain mean." Funny how when Bobcats get as large as the average coyote suddenly the bobcat is the more dangerous one. The bobcats these dudes are hunting are in the 10-15lb range. Oh wow an actual half decent post. Okay, this might actually look a little bad should I not respond. "A large tom bobcat can give a dog some nasty infections." is what we can shorten that down to. They describe infections, and being beaten up, by exceptionally large bobcats mind you. Wow! The most cowardly dog in the animal kingdom against the best of the best bobcat could have issues? Oh goodness me, what a surprise. Also, a 12lb bobcat hanging onto a scenthound's head that isn't fighting back and instead trying to run is pretty cool, amazing how one bite left the cat paralyzed implying the other dog didn't bite the cat at all. Also the bobcat was in a hole, so it automatically got the first shot. They didn't compare the bobcat with coyote, so... but sure a large male bobcat can give a hound some hurt. You act like we're starting from a high point when we're starting from the lowest point we can possibly start from and there are still zero deaths. Where are the deaths? Or serious wounds? I'm not hearing about serious wounds. Just scratches. And all dog victories. Yeah of course he'd say that, he didn't say they were good. Just mean. He didn't say "bobcats are good p4p fighters, man, I wouldn't bet on much against a similar sized bobcat!" but even if he did it is overwhelmed by other testimonies. All of this stuff is. And that bobcat was assuredly a female. So 12lbs, sure. Bobcats are also very gracile on account of their fragility so again 12lbs is all well and good. How do you expect an animal, that has poor stamina that has been run to exhaustion beforehand to kill a dog when it is not only exhausted, but also outnumbered and at a severe weight disadvantage (65-70lb hound v 15lb bobcat) bobcats are badass and very aggressive for their size but they aren't super-man they can only do so much. Leave it 1 on 1 with a 20lb male bobcat and I'd give the male bobcat a good chance at killing the hound. Even if they are "cowardly" dogs or whatever it is irrelevant, purely benefiting from their weight advantage and numerical advantage they are going to win. Things change when a Puma is involved, get 1 130lb male Puma a suddenly the lone Puma will go on to kill numerous dogs. Things to keep in mind is that the average walker hound is 3-4x larger than a bobcat and a 130lb male Puma is only 1.75x the size of the hounds and a Puma that size could easily go on to kill 10 or more of these dogs. |
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Post by Bolushi on Mar 9, 2023 4:06:27 GMT
Oh wow an actual half decent post. Okay, this might actually look a little bad should I not respond. "A large tom bobcat can give a dog some nasty infections." is what we can shorten that down to. They describe infections, and being beaten up, by exceptionally large bobcats mind you. Wow! The most cowardly dog in the animal kingdom against the best of the best bobcat could have issues? Oh goodness me, what a surprise. Also, a 12lb bobcat hanging onto a scenthound's head that isn't fighting back and instead trying to run is pretty cool, amazing how one bite left the cat paralyzed implying the other dog didn't bite the cat at all. Also the bobcat was in a hole, so it automatically got the first shot. They didn't compare the bobcat with coyote, so... but sure a large male bobcat can give a hound some hurt. You act like we're starting from a high point when we're starting from the lowest point we can possibly start from and there are still zero deaths. Where are the deaths? Or serious wounds? I'm not hearing about serious wounds. Just scratches. And all dog victories. Yeah of course he'd say that, he didn't say they were good. Just mean. He didn't say "bobcats are good p4p fighters, man, I wouldn't bet on much against a similar sized bobcat!" but even if he did it is overwhelmed by other testimonies. All of this stuff is. And that bobcat was assuredly a female. So 12lbs, sure. Bobcats are also very gracile on account of their fragility so again 12lbs is all well and good. How do you expect an animal, that has poor stamina that has been run to exhaustion beforehand to kill a dog when it is not only exhausted, but also outnumbered and at a severe weight disadvantage (65-70lb hound v 15lb bobcat) bobcats are badass and very aggressive for their size but they aren't super-man they can only do so much. Leave it 1 on 1 with a 20lb male bobcat and I'd give the male bobcat a good chance at killing the hound. Even if they are "cowardly" dogs or whatever it is irrelevant, purely benefiting from their weight advantage and numerical advantage they are going to win. Things change when a Puma is involved, get 1 130lb male Puma a suddenly the lone Puma will go on to kill numerous dogs. Things to keep in mind is that the average walker hound is 3-4x larger than a bobcat and a 130lb male Puma is only 1.75x the size of the hounds and a Puma that size could easily go on to kill 10 or more of these dogs. Aaah but these dogs hunt cougars, even alone, if they're not actually attacking the cougar then they have nothing to worry about. They can even grab onto their tails sometimes. A 20lb male bobcat is getting murdered, lol, what? Maybe being run the exhaustion is the bobcat's fault. Once it takes defense in its little culvert or pipe it is fully capable of fighting. Bobcats are just horrible fighters and very weak, a hound can only lose if it doesn't fight back. In which case anything can win. Having seen bobcats in person, and having seen neighborhood cats after being attacked by bobcats, and seeing and interacting with numerous dogs I can tell you with 101% certainty your 20lb bobcat would get ragdolled once the hound snapped out of its horror. It's not a matter of whether the bobcat will lose or not, though occasionally single dogs end up killing them by catching them out in the open, but it's a matter of the fight they put up. Everything besides bobcats can put up a fight. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 4:31:58 GMT
How do you expect an animal, that has poor stamina that has been run to exhaustion beforehand to kill a dog when it is not only exhausted, but also outnumbered and at a severe weight disadvantage (65-70lb hound v 15lb bobcat) bobcats are badass and very aggressive for their size but they aren't super-man they can only do so much. Leave it 1 on 1 with a 20lb male bobcat and I'd give the male bobcat a good chance at killing the hound. Even if they are "cowardly" dogs or whatever it is irrelevant, purely benefiting from their weight advantage and numerical advantage they are going to win. Things change when a Puma is involved, get 1 130lb male Puma a suddenly the lone Puma will go on to kill numerous dogs. Things to keep in mind is that the average walker hound is 3-4x larger than a bobcat and a 130lb male Puma is only 1.75x the size of the hounds and a Puma that size could easily go on to kill 10 or more of these dogs. Aaah but these dogs hunt cougars, even alone, if they're not actually attacking the cougar then they have nothing to worry about. They can even grab onto their tails sometimes. A 20lb male bobcat is getting murdered, lol, what? Maybe being run the exhaustion is the bobcat's fault. Once it takes defense in its little culvert or pipe it is fully capable of fighting. Bobcats are just horrible fighters and very weak, a hound can only lose if it doesn't fight back. In which case anything can win. Having seen bobcats in person, and having seen neighborhood cats after being attacked by bobcats, and seeing and interacting with numerous dogs I can tell you with 101% certainty your 20lb bobcat would get ragdolled once the hound snapped out of its horror. It's not a matter of whether the bobcat will lose or not, though occasionally single dogs end up killing them by catching them out in the open, but it's a matter of the fight they put up. Everything besides bobcats can put up a fight. It's the bobcats fault for running from a 10 on 1 in some circumstances scenario? I wouldn't trust your judgement on anything. Yes, single hounds can hunt Pumas, this is due to the Pumas extreme fear of humans, which they associate with dogs. There are many numerous stories from hunters on that very same forum of Pumas sitting up in a tree, realizing it's only 1 hound and coming down and crushing its skull, killing it instantaneously. Pumas rarely go offensive when backed against a corner by hounds, but once they go off they can easily rack up a disgusting kill count if not intervened by the hunter very quickly. Pumas are not scaled up Bobcats- they are totally different, they can sustain shock very well due to their robust skeletons and take a beating while dishing out hell with their incredibly overwhelming explosive power and huge, lethal canines that can crush skull. Being fully capable of literally ragdolling a dog similar in size to itself because of the incredible amount of muscle that they pack onto their shoulders and forearms, which are meant to subjugate a struggling 200lb mule deer with the strength of their arms alone. That is a lot of power. People that trap or snare Pumas talk about them ripping cables that can sustain 550+lbs of force by just the force of them pulling on it with 1 arm. They have also been documented dragging 500-700lb elk carcasses and even horse carcasses. Something of that nature would take multiple men to move. Walker hounds are also allowed to chew on a Pumas carcass after it dies for many minutes, I spoke to many of these hunters and they all said the same thing: "The hounds chew and rip on the Lion, but believe it or not they don't do any damage to the hide at all!" "Really? Lion hide must be pretty tough." "Yup, they are something!" Meaning if a puma is alive and these dogs are attacking it they will literally be doing 0, count it ZERO damage to the Puma with their weak ineffective bites. I'm convinced a Puma can kill an infinite amount of Walker's until it dropped dead from exhaustion. |
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Post by Bolushi on Mar 9, 2023 5:08:58 GMT
Until you give dogs total credit for their hunting expeditions and roles, we can never be cool. Also I've seen a border collie kill a 200lb deer. It's not a feat, it's easy.
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Post by Hardcastle on Mar 9, 2023 9:47:27 GMT
I'm convinced a Puma can kill an infinite amount of Walker's until it dropped dead from exhaustion. So maybe 2 walkers then? Sounds about right. We are talking about the worst cardio vascular system and worst nouse for conserving stamina when under duress in the entire animal kingdom. The stuff about breaking skin, there is some truth to dogs in general having relatively blunt teeth. Terriers a possible exception and some sighthounds (maybe also some LGDs). Even dingoes are said to have fairly blunt teeth, BUT they still kill eachother. Dingoes murdered by other dingoes with no broken skin are often found. Autopsies reveal deep tissue damage under the skin. There was a whole study on this. I'm not following the argument that well but coonhounds definitely are among the worst possible fighters in the entire world of dogs. A puma can make a large pack look fairly silly but mostly through bluffing displays and without actually killing any dogs. They very rarely kill a hound. Wolves on the other hand are quite deadly to scenthounds. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 15:43:47 GMT
I'm convinced a Puma can kill an infinite amount of Walker's until it dropped dead from exhaustion. So maybe 2 walkers then? Sounds about right. We are talking about the worst cardio vascular system and worst nouse for conserving stamina when under duress in the entire animal kingdom. The stuff about breaking skin, there is some truth to dogs in general having relatively blunt teeth. Terriers a possible exception and some sighthounds (maybe also some LGDs). Even dingoes are said to have fairly blunt teeth, BUT they still kill eachother. Dingoes murdered by other dingoes with no broken skin are often found. Autopsies reveal deep tissue damage under the skin. There was a whole study on this. I'm not following the argument that well but coonhounds definitely are among the worst possible fighters in the entire world of dogs. A puma can make a large pack look fairly silly but mostly through bluffing displays and without actually killing any dogs. They very rarely kill a hound. Wolves on the other hand are quite deadly to scenthounds. Nope, I'm talking 10+. Lol, Puma's have poor stamina due to all of that incredible fast twitch muscle, but they can certaintly stay and fight for many minutes, in those minutes 5 seconds is all it takes to crush a walker hound's skull. Have you seen the comparison between a walker hounds head/neck area and a male Puma? The Puma could snap their neck like a twig. Don't overrate these dogs now, you should be aware that a Puma can kill many, numerous of these dogs. There is no documentation of a "staghound" or whatever being used to hunt a Puma aside from that one video of 4 greyhounds killing a cub that was out by itself- of which I hope you understand isn't how an adult Puma would go down, I HOPE you are aware of that. The guy himself responded to comment asking him this question: "Do you think it would've been more trouble if it was an adult?" And his response was: "Oh yeah" Another comment said: "How much did it weigh" He said: "No more than 50lbs" Which means it weighed significantly less than 50lbs. That would put that Puma at around the same size as the cub that jogger killed barehanded. Which was about 4-6 months old btw He also replied this to another comment: "We would've been in trouble if it was a tom" 4 greyhounds vs 1 male Puma and the idea of it alone makes him nervous. I don't blame him, a 130lb male Puma would be ragdolling those dogs and sending them heaving with one bite to the dome or neck. He'd kill all 4. If a greyhound tried grabbing a male Pumas neck and pinning? Lol the crazy motherfucker would have a deathwish, I'd be surprised if it even makes it that far so as to make an attempt before it's laying on the ground stone dead from a severed spinal cord or a crushed skull. Wolves are dangerous to staghounds? Well, Pumas are dangerous to wolves and kill them in 1 on 1 scenarios all the time. So whatever it takes to take a wolf your gonna need more of it. Plus Pumas are more durable because they are significantly more robust and have a very thick hide. Funnily enough wolves only fancy their chances against a small female Puma when numbering in the double digits (14). 1 on 1, 2 on 1? The wolves know better. But their weak bites aren't going to be doing any significant damage no matter how you spin it. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 15:48:58 GMT
Until you give dogs total credit for their hunting expeditions and roles, we can never be cool. Also I've seen a border collie kill a 200lb deer. It's not a feat, it's easy. When did i say killing a deer was a feat? O said RESTRAINING a 200lb buck with your arms alone is a feat. Deer may be easy to kill but to restrain their entire body- which is very powerful and explosive with just your forearms and shoulders takes a shitton of strength. That's the point. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Mar 9, 2023 17:54:14 GMT
So maybe 2 walkers then? Sounds about right. We are talking about the worst cardio vascular system and worst nouse for conserving stamina when under duress in the entire animal kingdom. The stuff about breaking skin, there is some truth to dogs in general having relatively blunt teeth. Terriers a possible exception and some sighthounds (maybe also some LGDs). Even dingoes are said to have fairly blunt teeth, BUT they still kill eachother. Dingoes murdered by other dingoes with no broken skin are often found. Autopsies reveal deep tissue damage under the skin. There was a whole study on this. I'm not following the argument that well but coonhounds definitely are among the worst possible fighters in the entire world of dogs. A puma can make a large pack look fairly silly but mostly through bluffing displays and without actually killing any dogs. They very rarely kill a hound. Wolves on the other hand are quite deadly to scenthounds. Nope, I'm talking 10+. Lol, Puma's have poor stamina due to all of that incredible fast twitch muscle, but they can certaintly stay and fight for many minutes, in those minutes 5 seconds is all it takes to crush a walker hound's skull. Have you seen the comparison between a walker hounds head/neck area and a male Puma? The Puma could snap their neck like a twig. Don't overrate these dogs now, you should be aware that a Puma can kill many, numerous of these dogs. There is no documentation of a "staghound" or whatever being used to hunt a Puma aside from that one video of 4 greyhounds killing a cub that was out by itself- of which I hope you understand isn't how an adult Puma would go down, I HOPE you are aware of that. The guy himself responded to comment asking him this question: "Do you think it would've been more trouble if it was an adult?" And his response was: "Oh yeah" Another comment said: "How much did it weigh" He said: "No more than 50lbs" Which means it weighed significantly less than 50lbs. That would put that Puma at around the same size as the cub that jogger killed barehanded. Which was about 4-6 months old btw He also replied this to another comment: "We would've been in trouble if it was a tom" 4 greyhounds vs 1 male Puma and the idea of it alone makes him nervous. I don't blame him, a 130lb male Puma would be ragdolling those dogs and sending them heaving with one bite to the dome or neck. He'd kill all 4. If a greyhound tried grabbing a male Pumas neck and pinning? Lol the crazy motherfucker would have a deathwish, I'd be surprised if it even makes it that far so as to make an attempt before it's laying on the ground stone dead from a severed spinal cord or a crushed skull. Wolves are dangerous to staghounds? Well, Pumas are dangerous to wolves and kill them in 1 on 1 scenarios all the time. So whatever it takes to take a wolf your gonna need more of it. Plus Pumas are more durable because they are significantly more robust and have a very thick hide. Funnily enough wolves only fancy their chances against a small female Puma when numbering in the double digits (14). 1 on 1, 2 on 1? The wolves know better. But their weak bites aren't going to be doing any significant damage no matter how you spin it. You're a little bit all over the place, mixing up your staghounds and your coonhounds which is like comparing a puma to a photocopying machine, totally different things. Also your "fight math" is a known logical fallacy. I'm referring to; pumas kill wolves, wolves kill coonhounds, therefore pumas are more dangerous to coonhounds than wolves. Nope. They aren't. Wolves are more dangerous to coonhounds and it's an established fact. But you are correct that pumas beat and kill wolves. All of the above can be correct. Staghounds? Staghounds hunt and kill wolves quite safely. Different things. A bull x staghound is considered to be worth 3 staghounds. And that's when we're starting to talk about dogs which people assert can actually beat a puma. Again I didn't read the thread properly but did someone say a coonhound beats a puma? That's absurd. BUT a pack of coonhounds are good at evading a puma while simultaneously harassing it. They rarely die (sometimes, but rarely). Staghound vs small puma is actually pretty interesting. I'd favour the puma generally but a really good individual staghound might be able to pull it off. With the right technique. Some staghounds become very professional and skilled at rushing in for a throat hold and finishing fast. They can't put up with too much resistance, however. Bull x staghound I would favour the dog. Then you need a bigger puma. Bigger than the dog. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Mar 9, 2023 18:32:04 GMT
Staghounds? Staghounds hunt and kill wolves quite safely. Different things. A bull x staghound is considered to be worth 3 staghounds. And that's when we're starting to talk about dogs which people assert can actually beat a puma. Note- Alaunt gentils, described here, were essentially bull x stag. Greyhounds of this time (1400s) were actually staghounds by todays standard. No dog racing back then, and "greyhound" actually referred specifically to those that could hunt big game as well as small, not the hare and fox specialists which they called "gasehound" or "Agaseus". Greyhounds or "grehounds" were staghounds- Of Englishe DoggesSame book describing "gasehound" Anyone today familiar with "staghounds" and "greyhounds" can recognise the former is describing staghounds, the latter greyhounds. Despite the terminology mix up. Then the "bandogge" or alaunt (aka catch dogs, boarhounds, bulldogs etc) as described in "Of English Dogges" These assessments from the 1400s ring true still today, if you can get through the weird old english. For Alaunts (bulldogs and boarhounds), the grehound (aka staghound) and the Gasehound (greyhound). Despite these differences, these 3 have much more in common with one another than a coonhound, or "running hounds" as they were in medieval europe. Designed to track and run prey for extended periods, and harrass them with their voice while avoiding combat. There's really no comparison, they aren't just "lesser fighters", as a greyhound is to a boarhound, they are anti-fighters. Non-fighters. |
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Post by colein on Mar 9, 2023 20:09:37 GMT
Nope, I'm talking 10+. Lol, Puma's have poor stamina due to all of that incredible fast twitch muscle, but they can certaintly stay and fight for many minutes, in those minutes 5 seconds is all it takes to crush a walker hound's skull. Have you seen the comparison between a walker hounds head/neck area and a male Puma? The Puma could snap their neck like a twig. Don't overrate these dogs now, you should be aware that a Puma can kill many, numerous of these dogs. There is no documentation of a "staghound" or whatever being used to hunt a Puma aside from that one video of 4 greyhounds killing a cub that was out by itself- of which I hope you understand isn't how an adult Puma would go down, I HOPE you are aware of that. The guy himself responded to comment asking him this question: "Do you think it would've been more trouble if it was an adult?" And his response was: "Oh yeah" Another comment said: "How much did it weigh" He said: "No more than 50lbs" Which means it weighed significantly less than 50lbs. That would put that Puma at around the same size as the cub that jogger killed barehanded. Which was about 4-6 months old btw He also replied this to another comment: "We would've been in trouble if it was a tom" 4 greyhounds vs 1 male Puma and the idea of it alone makes him nervous. I don't blame him, a 130lb male Puma would be ragdolling those dogs and sending them heaving with one bite to the dome or neck. He'd kill all 4. If a greyhound tried grabbing a male Pumas neck and pinning? Lol the crazy motherfucker would have a deathwish, I'd be surprised if it even makes it that far so as to make an attempt before it's laying on the ground stone dead from a severed spinal cord or a crushed skull. Wolves are dangerous to staghounds? Well, Pumas are dangerous to wolves and kill them in 1 on 1 scenarios all the time. So whatever it takes to take a wolf your gonna need more of it. Plus Pumas are more durable because they are significantly more robust and have a very thick hide. Funnily enough wolves only fancy their chances against a small female Puma when numbering in the double digits (14). 1 on 1, 2 on 1? The wolves know better. But their weak bites aren't going to be doing any significant damage no matter how you spin it. You're a little bit all over the place, mixing up your staghounds and your coonhounds which is like comparing a puma to a photocopying machine, totally different things. Also your "fight math" is a known logical fallacy. I'm referring to; pumas kill wolves, wolves kill coonhounds, therefore pumas are more dangerous to coonhounds than wolves. Nope. They aren't. Wolves are more dangerous to coonhounds and it's an established fact. But you are correct that pumas beat and kill wolves. All of the above can be correct. Staghounds? Staghounds hunt and kill wolves quite safely. Different things. A bull x staghound is considered to be worth 3 staghounds. And that's when we're starting to talk about dogs which people assert can actually beat a puma. Again I didn't read the thread properly but did someone say a coonhound beats a puma? That's absurd. BUT a pack of coonhounds are good at evading a puma while simultaneously harassing it. They rarely die (sometimes, but rarely). Staghound vs small puma is actually pretty interesting. I'd favour the puma generally but a really good individual staghound might be able to pull it off. With the right technique. Some staghounds become very professional and skilled at rushing in for a throat hold and finishing fast. They can't put up with too much resistance, however. Bull x staghound I would favour the dog. Then you need a bigger puma. Bigger than the dog. Apologies, I didn't mix up walker hounds and staghounds. I know what both dogs are but I guess I talked over myself. Yes wolve(S)- plural are more dangerous to Walker's because of their pack behavior. In a lone wolf scenario though they will simply be bayed like a Puma. A puma is more dangerous because not only is it much stronger and more durable but it can also kill much faster. Walker hounds have been half-hazardly bitten on the skull by a Puma and than would be knocked out due to the impact of the bite with their skull and be out of it for a few minutes- that's as good as dead. A wolf has devastating biting power as well but a Pumas is more concentrated and it causes more trauma so them killing or incapacitating a walker hound with a single bite is a very real possibility. Wolves are more dangerous to Walker's but Pumas are the more dangerous opponent for the dogs of the 2 because of its power and size. Once again- good. Because if it takes 3 to take a wolf you're going to need more for a Puma. Who is saying a stag x bull hound can kill a Puma alone? The one advantage that full blooded grippers have is their strong constitution and ability to resist grappling due to their robust structure. That is a good 80% of the reason they can put up a good fight 1 on 1 with a Leopard or Puma. Strip 50% of that bulkiness away and you're left with a hound that can be easily wrapped up and subdued by a Puma or a Leopard. Even if their killing ability is superior to a gripper they'd never get in such a position when a Puma has their head in a vice grip and is biting at their neck nape, or on their skull. I don't think a bullxstag vs a Puma is of very good medicine. A full blooded gripper is a good opponent for a male Puma, but even than a Puma would win that one as well. Speaking parity, of course. A group of them? Sure, they can take a Puma. But one on one the Puma is going to dominate, unlike the bobcat it actually has the robustity to back itself up, it has the large shoulder musculature and powerful stabilizer muscles to hold a dog down and deliver a killing bite. Pumas are also incredibly lethal and can bite just about anywhere on the upper body to be effective, Pumas also employ a "bite and shake" technique- similar to most dogs to deepen their bite and make it more effective. So they can maul very, very well also. A male and female Puma are almost 2 different animals, Females actually have very little sagittal crest development and- obviously lack the dimensions of their male counter parts. The jump from a female Puma to a male Puma is astronomical in terms of combat capabilities. Any hunter will tell you a male Puma is a whole different ball game when it comes to power, some males Pumas are comparable to female Jaguar's in areas where they are sympatric: http://instagram.com/p/CbOS9KFr2jQ And that's a male jagaur at the end yet you can see how similar they are in body robustity. Male Pumas are very formidable animals. Here is a modest 120lb male, I honestly thought he was heavier due to his build: http://instagram.com/p/CmSJsUpS7hi I don't see any dog being capable of beating a male Puma 1 on 1 in any weight class at parity, zero. Some will put up a better fight than others but a male Puma, that is a fully grown adult individual that is used to fighting and killing other males for competition is likely going to be too much for any dog. This doesn't take away from the dogs any, they are good opponents. But the Puma is stronger, deadlier and faster. And they are durable, they can take a beating and still keep fighting. |
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Post by Bolushi on Mar 9, 2023 22:21:18 GMT
Until you give dogs total credit for their hunting expeditions and roles, we can never be cool. Also I've seen a border collie kill a 200lb deer. It's not a feat, it's easy. When did i say killing a deer was a feat? O said RESTRAINING a 200lb buck with your arms alone is a feat. Deer may be easy to kill but to restrain their entire body- which is very powerful and explosive with just your forearms and shoulders takes a shitton of strength. That's the point. Hunters regularly hold down 300lb bucks with their hands. It's no big whoop. |
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