Dog and Wild Predator power scaling

[Deleted]

Can't include everyone, will add as requested.
0-20lbs

Jagdterrier (100)

Patterdale Terrier (100)

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (100)

Ocelot (50)

Clouded Leopard (60)

Bobcat/Lynx (5)

Arabian Wolf (25)

Ethiopian Wolf (20)

Red Fox (10)

Coyote (60)

Winner: Staffordshire Bull Terrier



20-40lbs

American Pitbull Terrier (100)

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (95)

American Staffordshire Terrier (95)

English Bull Terrier (98)

Gull Terrier (98)

Border Collie (45)

Kelpie (50)

Blue Heeler (60)

Clouded Leopard (75)

Arabian leopardess (55)

Cape leopardess (55)

Ocelot (65)

Bobcat (10)

Canadian Lynx (8)

Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian wolf (45)

Coyote (50)
Winner: American Pitbull Terrier



40-60lbs

American Pitbull Terrier (100)

English Bull Terrier (98)

American Staffordshire Terrier (92)

Bull Arab (85)

American Bulldog (Scott) (85)

Kelpie (50)

Collie (45)

Blue Heeler (55)

Cougar (30)

Arabian/Cape leopard (40)

Clouded Leopard (75)

Bobcat (20)

Eurasian Lynx (40)

African Wild Dog (75)

Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian Wolf (60)

Coyote (55)
Winner: American Pitbull Terrier



Bull Terriers are disqualified, they confuse things in ways that don't interest me.



60-100lbs

Bull Arab (95)

Burr Lee Bullstag (95)

NQ Bullhound (92)

Dogo Argentino (96)

Boerboel (98)

Presa Canario (98)

Neapolitan Mastiff (99)
Alano Espanol (100)

Staghound (50)

Greyhound (40)

Whippet (25)

Galgo Patagonico (75)

Maritsane (78)
Kelpie (25)

Blue Heeler (25)

Collie (25)

Cougar (70)

Leopard (72)

Eurasian Lynx (20)

Clouded Leopard (65)

Jaguar (98)

Mackenzie Valley Wolf (85)

Eurasian Wolf (82)

Steppe Wolf (75)

Arctic Wolf (85)

Sun Bear (100)

Winner: Alano Espanol/Sun Bear (really close)

100-120lbs
Bull Arab (95)

Burr Lee Bullstag (95)

NQ Bullhound (92)

Dogo Argentino (96)

Bullmastiff (96)

Boerboel (98)

Presa Canario (98)

Neapolitan Mastiff (99)

Alano Espanol (100)

Staghound (50)

Greyhound (40)
Galgo Patagonico (75)

Maritsane (78)
Cougar (75)

Leopard (80)

Eurasian Lynx (20)
Jaguar (98)

Mackenzie Valley Wolf (85)

Eurasian Wolf (82)

Steppe Wolf (75)

Arctic Wolf (85)

Sun Bear (100)
Winner: Alano Espanol/Jaguar/Sun Bear

120-140lbs
Bull Arab (95)

Burr Lee Bullstag (95)

NQ Bullhound (92)

Dogo Argentino (93)

Boerboel (85)

Presa Canario (98)

Neapolitan Mastiff (99)

Alano Espanol (100)

Staghound (70)

Greyhound (65)

Galgo Patagonico (75)

Maritsane (78)
Central Asian Shepherd (88)
Irish Wolfhound (75)
Bully Kutta (94)
Bullwolfhound (96)
O'Halloran Hound (98)
Kangal (85)
Cougar (85)

Leopard (85)
Jaguar (100)

Mackenzie Valley Wolf (85)

Eurasian Wolf (82)

Steppe Wolf (75)

Arctic Wolf (85)

Sun Bear (100)
Winner: Jaguar/Sun Bear

140-160lbs
Bull Arab (95)

Burr Lee Bullstag (95)

NQ Bullhound (92)

Dogo Argentino (93)

Boerboel (85)

Presa Canario (98)

Neapolitan Mastiff (99)

Alano Espanol (100)

Staghound (70)

Greyhound (65)

Galgo Patagonico (75)

Maritsane (78)

Central Asian Shepherd (88)

Irish Wolfhound (75)

Bully Kutta (94)

Bullwolfhound (96)

O'Halloran Hound (98)

Kangal (85)

Cougar (85)

Leopard (85)

Jaguar (100)

Mackenzie Valley Wolf (85)
Sun Bear (100)
Black Bear (85)
Winner: Jaguar/Sun Bear

160-200lbs
Central Asian Shepherd (80)
Kangal (75)
Bullwolfhound (85)
O'Halloran Hound (85)
Jaguar (100)
Cougar (80)
Leopard (80)
Sloth Bear (100)
Sun Bear (100)
Black Bear (75)
Winner: Sloth Bear

[Hardcastle]

I love the concept and largely agree with the scores, but then don't on some. I'll just do mine and then see where we differ.

0-20lbs
Staffordshire Bull Terrier (100) (c)
Jagdterrier (95)
Patterdale Terrier (95)
Honey Badger (88)
European Badger (85)
American Badger (80)
Coyote (80)
Ocelot (80)
Bobcat (78)
Side Striped Jackal (75)
Caracal (75)
Black backed Jackal (73)
Canadian Lynx (65)
Red Fox (64)

20-40lbs
American Pitbull Terrier (100) (c)
Gull Terrier (96)
English Bull Terrier (93)
American Staffordshire Terrier (93)
Staffordshire Bull Terrier (93)
Wolverine (90)
Clouded Leopard (88)
Cape/arabian leopardess (80)
Ocelot (78)
Blue heeler (78)
Kelpie (73)
Coyote (73)
Bobcat (70)
Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian wolf (70)
Border Collie (68)
Canadian Lynx (60)


40-60lbs
American Pitbull Terrier (100) (C)
American Bulldog (Scott) (95)
English Bull Terrier (94)
American Staffordshire Terrier (93)
Bull Arab (90)
Staffordshire bull terrier (90)
Wolverine (90)
Clouded leopard (88)
Arabian/Cape Leopard (83)
Cougar (81)
Eurasian Lynx (79)
Blue Heeler (78)
African wild dog (75)
Kelpie (70)
Coyote (70)
Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian wolf (65)
Collie (60)

60-100lbs
Presa Canario (99)
Alano Espanol (99)
Scott ambull (99)
Boerboel (98)
Neo (98)
Dogo Argentino (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Bullwolfhound (96)
Bull Arab (96)
Sun Bear (96)
NQ Bullhound (95)
Burr Lee Bullstag (95)
Galgo Patagonico (91)
Maritsane (91)
Leopard (90)
Cougar (89)
Mackenzie Valley Wolf (88)
Eurasian Wolf (86)
Arctic Wolf (86)
Snow Leopard (85)
Staghound (82)
Steppe Wolf (80)
Greyhound (77)
Eurasian Lynx (72)

100-120lbs
Jaguar (98)
Presa Canario (98)
Alano espanol (97)
Sun Bear (97)
Boerboel (97)
Neo (97)
Dogo Argentino (97)
Bullwolfhound (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Bull Arab (96)
Burr Lee Bullstag (95)
NQ Bullhound (93)
Leopard (93)
Galgo Patagonico (91)
Maritsane (91)
Cougar (90)
Mackenzie Valley Wolf (88)
Snow leopard (87)
Arctic Wolf (86)
Eurasian Wolf (86)
Staghound (80)
Steppe Wolf (80)

120-140lbs
Jaguar (100)
Sun Bear (98)
Bull wolfhound (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Leopard (96)
Cougar (95)
Galgo Patagonico (94)
Maritsane (94)
Presa Canario (88)
Dogo argentino (85)
Boerboel (85)
Neapolitan (85)

160-200lbs
Sloth bear (100)
Spectacled Bear (98)
Jaguar (97)
Leopard (93)
Cougar (92)
Central Asian Shepherd (88)
Kangal (88)
Bullwolfhound (87)
O'Halloran Hound (87)

Not even sure I agree with myself, but I have to cut it short. Feel free to ask questions so I can think about it more...

[Deleted]

What the hell?

This makes zero sense to me. Why is the Presa higher than the Alano? You mean the 0.0001% of them that may or may not be catching some unruly cattle on an island? The Alano Espanol is the one that is doing the big boy work, the iberian cattle wrangling... huh?
Why would the Presa carry any more weight than the Alano at those weights, when they're a carbon copy of the same animal, if that's your reasoning?

[Hardcastle]

I don't think Alanos get that big. If they did they'd be fat. Presas shouldn't get that big, but they do without being fat. Instead muscular and stupidly wide which isn't ideal for bull catching but should give them an advantage in a fight, I guess. If this was about predatory ability to handle bulls and boars I have everything all wrong.

[Hardcastle]

I kind of followed your lead on this and gave a lot of respect for breeds which I don't really respect. I'm compelled to do it again with "working terrier" "working bulldog" "working boarhound" rather than these breeds which frankly are total shit (even the presa canario, dare I say).

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2022 14:11:41 GMT Hardcastle said:

I kind of followed your lead on this and gave a lot of respect for breeds which I don't really respect. I'm compelled to do it again with "working terrier" "working bulldog" "working boarhound" rather than these breeds which frankly are total shit (even the presa canario, dare I say).

I was going to do that but I just figured it'd be too confusing. Like, an O'Halloran Hound would scale higher than a Galgo Patagonico, and then the middle would be a bullstag or Dogo, and then someone could reasonably say ''But the O'Halloran Hound would be at level X while a Dogo would be lower!''

[s]

Oct 25, 2022 20:19:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

I love the concept and largely agree with the scores, but then don't on some. I'll just do mine and then see where we differ.

0-20lbs
Staffordshire Bull Terrier (100) (c)
Jagdterrier (95)
Patterdale Terrier (95)
Honey Badger (88)
European Badger (85)
American Badger (80)
Coyote (80)
Ocelot (80)
Bobcat (78)
Side Striped Jackal (75)
Caracal (75)
Black backed Jackal (73)
Canadian Lynx (65)
Red Fox (64)

20-40lbs
American Pitbull Terrier (100) (c)
Gull Terrier (96)
English Bull Terrier (93)
American Staffordshire Terrier (93)
Staffordshire Bull Terrier (93)
Wolverine (90)
Clouded Leopard (88)
Cape/arabian leopardess (80)
Ocelot (78)
Blue heeler (78)
Kelpie (73)
Coyote (73)
Bobcat (70)
Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian wolf (70)
Border Collie (68)
Canadian Lynx (60)


40-60lbs
American Pitbull Terrier (100) (C)
American Bulldog (Scott) (95)
English Bull Terrier (94)
American Staffordshire Terrier (93)
Bull Arab (90)
Staffordshire bull terrier (90)
Wolverine (90)
Clouded leopard (88)
Arabian/Cape Leopard (83)
Cougar (81)
Eurasian Lynx (79)
Blue Heeler (78)
African wild dog (75)
Kelpie (70)
Coyote (70)
Indian/Arabian/Ethiopian wolf (65)
Collie (60)

60-100lbs
Presa Canario (99)
Alano Espanol (99)
Scott ambull (99)
Boerboel (98)
Neo (98)
Dogo Argentino (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Bullwolfhound (96)
Bull Arab (96)
Sun Bear (96)
NQ Bullhound (95)
Burr Lee Bullstag (95)
Galgo Patagonico (91)
Maritsane (91)
Leopard (90)
Cougar (89)
Mackenzie Valley Wolf (88)
Eurasian Wolf (86)
Arctic Wolf (86)
Snow Leopard (85)
Staghound (82)
Steppe Wolf (80)
Greyhound (77)
Eurasian Lynx (72)

100-120lbs
Jaguar (98)
Presa Canario (98)
Alano espanol (97)
Sun Bear (97)
Boerboel (97)
Neo (97)
Dogo Argentino (97)
Bullwolfhound (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Bull Arab (96)
Burr Lee Bullstag (95)
NQ Bullhound (93)
Leopard (93)
Galgo Patagonico (91)
Maritsane (91)
Cougar (90)
Mackenzie Valley Wolf (88)
Snow leopard (87)
Arctic Wolf (86)
Eurasian Wolf (86)
Staghound (80)
Steppe Wolf (80)

120-140lbs
Jaguar (100)
Sun Bear (98)
Bull wolfhound (97)
O'Halloran (97)
Leopard (96)
Cougar (95)
Galgo Patagonico (94)
Maritsane (94)
Presa Canario (88)
Dogo argentino (85)
Boerboel (85)
Neapolitan (85)

160-200lbs
Sloth bear (100)
Spectacled Bear (98)
Jaguar (97)
Leopard (93)
Cougar (92)
Central Asian Shepherd (88)
Kangal (88)
Bullwolfhound (87)
O'Halloran Hound (87)

Not even sure I agree with myself, but I have to cut it short. Feel free to ask questions so I can think about it more...

Presa at 99? Bud, it's not a Pitbull/Dogo but bigger, modern Presas (not talking about the formidable 1800s Presas) are closer to a Rottweiler but with a stronger bite force and have quite bad stamina

Of course, the presa (Dogo Canario) is very intimidating but very molossous and heavy like any guard dog. A very large chunk of it's weight (like 30%) is body fat and not actual muscle.

In the 19th Century there were very fierce Presa Canario lineages due to crossing with English fighting breeds. But by the modern day the actual Presa Canarios are nearly gone and instead almost all "Presa Canarios" are simply extremely molosser Canarian Dogos. They are not like Pitbulls but bigger, they are like Rottweilers but with a stronger bite force. They have very poor stamina and tire out very fast

Today they are dogs that have been found a type of molosser, crossing and manufacturing a breed that looks like a bulldog, a case very similar to what happened with the alano

And I know this is irrelevant but i commonly see posts putting the presa as an all powerful dog when there are very few already and almost all of what they show here in the photos are canarian bulldogs. They aren't very powerful for animal standards. Or even for guard dogs standard. As i said "Rottweiler but with a stronger bite force" is a very accurate comparison

There are 3 types of "Presa" dogs


1st type, and most powerful, is an actual Presa Canario descendants of the formidable 19th Century types, nearly extinct by the modern day, they were indeed very robust and muscular compared to modern Presas, goes to show their decline, they are not breeds. But typologies.  

In between both when it comes to power is the bardino, which is the cross with the perro de presa that gives it the warrior character, although it looks like a normal mongrel, it has a combative character and is a very tough dog accustomed to the arid and harsh climate of the eastern Canary Islands.

3rd type, and least powerful type is a Canarian dogo that is what is frequently called presa and is consider it to be the canine beast but it was created in the 70s as a show dog and to recover the old rural presa canario dog

[s]

Oct 25, 2022 20:19:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

160-200lbs
Sloth bear (100)
Spectacled Bear (98)
Jaguar (97)
Leopard (93)
Cougar (92)
Central Asian Shepherd (88)
Kangal (88)
Bullwolfhound (87)
O'Halloran Hound (87)

Not even sure I agree with myself, but I have to cut it short. Feel free to ask questions so I can think about it more...

What score would you give Hulk the 180lbs Pitbull?

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2023 18:12:23 GMT s said:

Oct 25, 2022 20:19:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

160-200lbs
Sloth bear (100)
Spectacled Bear (98)
Jaguar (97)
Leopard (93)
Cougar (92)
Central Asian Shepherd (88)
Kangal (88)
Bullwolfhound (87)
O'Halloran Hound (87)

Not even sure I agree with myself, but I have to cut it short. Feel free to ask questions so I can think about it more...

What score would you give Hulk the 180lbs Pitbull?

1

[Bolushi]

Aug 31, 2023 21:20:30 GMT @ling said:

Aug 31, 2023 18:12:23 GMT s said:

What score would you give Hulk the 180lbs Pitbull?

1

I'd be surprised if Hulk managed to make it across a 4x4 pit before collapsing of exhaustion and dying.

[s]

Aug 31, 2023 22:33:15 GMT Bolushi said:

Aug 31, 2023 21:20:30 GMT @ling said:

1

I'd be surprised if Hulk managed to make it across a 4x4 pit before collapsing of exhaustion and dying.

Who do you think would win more often than not in a fight between a 25lbs Gamebred Staffordshire bull terrier and Hulk?

[Bolushi]

Sept 1, 2023 7:37:34 GMT s said:

Aug 31, 2023 22:33:15 GMT Bolushi said:

I'd be surprised if Hulk managed to make it across a 4x4 pit before collapsing of exhaustion and dying.

Who do you think would win more often than not in a fight between a 25lbs Gamebred Staffordshire bull terrier and Hulk?

SBT every time, no contest.

[s]

Sept 1, 2023 11:20:19 GMT Bolushi said:

Sept 1, 2023 7:37:34 GMT s said:

Who do you think would win more often than not in a fight between a 25lbs Gamebred Staffordshire bull terrier and Hulk?

SBT every time, no contest.

I have a question, why do you think there is that much of a performance drop between an XL and an XXL Pitbull? Aside from lower stamina and being less agile i don't think it's much of a downgrade

[Bolushi]

Sept 1, 2023 11:34:37 GMT s said:

Sept 1, 2023 11:20:19 GMT Bolushi said:

SBT every time, no contest.

I have a question, why do you think there is that much of a performance drop between an XL and an XXL Pitbull? Aside from lower stamina and being less agile i don't think it's much of a downgrade

Well both suck, the bigger it is the more overweight it will be and the quicker it will tire. I am sure they enjoy a great power advantage over lots of animals but all are pets with bad footwork and skill, plus they are overweight.

[s]

Sept 1, 2023 13:18:00 GMT Bolushi said:

Sept 1, 2023 11:34:37 GMT s said:

I have a question, why do you think there is that much of a performance drop between an XL and an XXL Pitbull? Aside from lower stamina and being less agile i don't think it's much of a downgrade

Well both suck, the bigger it is the more overweight it will be and the quicker it will tire. I am sure they enjoy a great power advantage over lots of animals but all are pets with bad footwork and skill, plus they are overweight.

But doesn't Bully Kuta and other huge gripping dog breeds share the same problems? Aside from the being overweight part