Alano Español vs American Black Bear

[Deleted]

vs

[Deleted]

I think it'd be close. Bear could end up on its back getting ravaged. The Alano would definitely have control of the contest.

[Johnson]

The Black Bear would eat that dog.




www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/bear-attacks-dog-in-wisconsin-city-just-across-the-minnesota-border





www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9021647/amp/California-man-punches-350lb-bear-face-save-rescue-dog-Buddy.html

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2022 23:57:31 GMT Johnson said:

The Black Bear would eat that dog.




www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/bear-attacks-dog-in-wisconsin-city-just-across-the-minnesota-border





www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9021647/amp/California-man-punches-350lb-bear-face-save-rescue-dog-Buddy.html

What does that prove besides a pet pitbull can endure a mauling by a bear? That's actually pro dog evidence.

[Johnson]

Dec 21, 2022 0:05:05 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 20, 2022 23:57:31 GMT Johnson said:

The Black Bear would eat that dog.




www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/bear-attacks-dog-in-wisconsin-city-just-across-the-minnesota-border





www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9021647/amp/California-man-punches-350lb-bear-face-save-rescue-dog-Buddy.html

What does that prove besides a pet pitbull can endure a mauling by a bear? That's actually pro dog evidence.

The owners has to save their shitbulls, so the Bear would take its time punching on these mutts without interference.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2022 0:14:28 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 21, 2022 0:05:05 GMT Bolushi said:

What does that prove besides a pet pitbull can endure a mauling by a bear? That's actually pro dog evidence.

The owners has to save their shitbulls, so the Bear would take its time punching on these mutts without interference.

Well considering the bear would get shaken out of its skin with a dog latched onto its ear I'd suggest it'd take many hours for the bear to do decent damage. Remember, this is the same dog type that had a competitive fight with a jaguar in San Francisco where it eventually succumbed to raking injuries from the losing jaguar which was slightly bigger than it. Likely around 110-120lbs going up against a 100lb bulldog. These dogs can subdue boars and bulls, a black bear isn't immune to getting thrashed around by a bulldog.

''The breed was imported into England in the 1890s by two Bulldog fanciers, Woodiwiss and Brooke. Woodiwiss purchased a fighting dog, scarred from combat with bears as well as dogs. Not to be outdone, Brooke imported from Bordeaux itself a fawn dog, with immediate ancestors that had tackled wolf, bear and hyena, one being killed in San Francisco whilst taking on a jaguar. Brooke tried his dog at a large Russian bear which stood six feet high when up on its hind legs. The account of this contest stated that: "The dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass three times."''
www.davidhancockondogs.com/archives/archive_900_present/1022.html
The fights these 80-100lb dogs participated in were 1 on 1 contests with various wild animals like hyenas, wolves, donkeys, bulls, jaguars, bears and likely cougars as well. Both animals had an owner cheering for their animal and these wild animals were the ''fighting'' variants of their kind. Their wild counterparts were not as war ready as these fighting animals were. These bulldogs beat the shit out of all of the above. Their damage output is poor but their opponent couldn't kill them because the dog was thrashing them around. Some of these animals were less durable than others and frankly only the bears were durable enough to avoid death. Jaguars were durable enough to survive being mauled and eventually get their victory after an hour or so.
In a fight to the death you may want to place your money on the bear, but you'd be thinking it was doomed because it'd spend the entire time getting its ass beat and in an organized contest it'd be a dog victory.

[Johnson]

Dec 21, 2022 0:25:28 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 21, 2022 0:14:28 GMT Johnson said:

The owners has to save their shitbulls, so the Bear would take its time punching on these mutts without interference.

Well considering the bear would get shaken out of its skin with a dog latched onto its ear I'd suggest it'd take many hours for the bear to do decent damage. Remember, this is the same dog type that had a competitive fight with a jaguar in San Francisco where it eventually succumbed to raking injuries from the losing jaguar which was slightly bigger than it. Likely around 110-120lbs going up against a 100lb bulldog. These dogs can subdue boars and bulls, a black bear isn't immune to getting thrashed around by a bulldog.

''The breed was imported into England in the 1890s by two Bulldog fanciers, Woodiwiss and Brooke. Woodiwiss purchased a fighting dog, scarred from combat with bears as well as dogs. Not to be outdone, Brooke imported from Bordeaux itself a fawn dog, with immediate ancestors that had tackled wolf, bear and hyena, one being killed in San Francisco whilst taking on a jaguar. Brooke tried his dog at a large Russian bear which stood six feet high when up on its hind legs. The account of this contest stated that: "The dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass three times."''
www.davidhancockondogs.com/archives/archive_900_present/1022.html
The fights these 80-100lb dogs participated in were 1 on 1 contests with various wild animals like hyenas, wolves, donkeys, bulls, jaguars, bears and likely cougars as well. Both animals had an owner cheering for their animal and these wild animals were the ''fighting'' variants of their kind. Their wild counterparts were not as war ready as these fighting animals were. These bulldogs beat the shit out of all of the above. Their damage output is poor but their opponent couldn't kill them because the dog was thrashing them around. Some of these animals were less durable than others and frankly only the bears were durable enough to avoid death. Jaguars were durable enough to survive being mauled and eventually get their victory after an hour or so.
In a fight to the death you may want to place your money on the bear, but you'd be thinking it was doomed because it'd spend the entire time getting its ass beat and in an organized contest it'd be a dog victory.

I guess you could argue that a Dog could briefly hold onto the Bear so the hunter could catch up to shoot the Ursine.

However, the Bear would win in a fight to the death of the dog has no help.

Found this on Carnivora.net.

"larger English dogs, such as the bloodhound, mastiff and bull-mastiff... besides which they will go to close quarters with tigers, leopard and bears, and are so killed or maimed for life"

Spirit of the Times and the New York Sportsman, Volumes 9-11

Bears are pretty good at using their arms to outwrestle other carnivores.

Bear Cub playfully wrestles down bigger dog.



I posted this staged video earlier, but here is a Black Bear Cub successfully grappling with a Cougar.



Bears are good grapplers, and can kill animals though they are less efficient than Big Cats and Wolves.

[Hardcastle]

Dec 21, 2022 5:29:07 GMT Johnson said:

Found this on Carnivora.net.

"larger English dogs, such as the bloodhound, mastiff and bull-mastiff... besides which they will go to close quarters with tigers, leopard and bears, and are so killed or maimed for life"

Spirit of the Times and the New York Sportsman, Volumes 9-11

Alternatively-

These dogs were for a great many years, from the English occupation of Bordeaux onwards, bred for encounters in the arena, being pitted against each other or against the bull, the bear, or the ass, and even as late as 1906 these encounters occasionally took place. Matador du Midi, a young fawn dog which Mr. H.C. Brooke imported in 1895, was of the old fighting strain, and amongst his ancestors were; Caporal (for seven years champion of the Pyrenees), Megre (a Bitch which had been pitted against bear, wolf, and Hyena) and Hercules (which was finally killed by a jaguar in a terrific battle in San Francisco). When it was 18 months old Mr. Brooke gave Matador du Midi a "jump" against a big Russian bear, and the dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass several times.

THE EVOLUTION OF THE BULLDOG - A HISTORICAL SURVEY By R. H. Voss - Dec. 15, 1933

and-

Many people speak of cruelty and pain in the abstract, without reference to the circumstances of the cases to which they apply the terms. Some would think nothing of keeping a bull-dog chained up for months, but would decry exposing it to the chance of being knocked about by a wild animal. Any one who understands the nature of such dogs knows that in excitement they do not feel pain, whilst depriving them of liberty and exercise is a real infliction to them. Their natural instincts find the greatest pleasure in fighting and bloodshed. Can any one doubt which of the two the dogs themselves would choose, to be loosed at a beast, or be tied up in a kennel? If so, he knows nothing about the disposition of bull-dogs.
It is remarkable how little injury the dogs sustain in this rough style of hunting. The simultaneousness of their attack overpowers a bear or panther, and prevents its paying attention to any dog in particular. The bull-dog's habit of fixing on to the nose or cheek of a foe renders the animal it seizes unable to do much injury by biting when once it has been seized. Then, though bears and panthers can inflict a severe blow when the object struck is at arm's-length, when it is very close their paws and claws are comparatively powerless. A bear's claws are so blunt that when a dog is holding him he cannot tear his skin, or make any wound, though at arm's- length he might cuff him soundly ; and a panther, though his claws are so sharp, can do little more harm. A bear never hugs the dogs ; his nose makes a splendid hold ; and from what I have seen, I consider two really good bull-dogs a complete match for any bear, if they get a fair chance of flying at him together. Once seized by the snout a bear is a helpless crea- ture, and does little but roll over and howl.

Thirteen years among the wild beasts of India

Note earlier in the book George P Sanderson mentions having NO bulldog over about 45 lbs.

[Deleted]

The ones from Noth Carolina would maul any dog breed.
Smaller ones may lose though.

[Deleted]

This is a mismatch imo.

Black bears have held their own against grizzlies.

[Hardcastle]

Well ... so has the alano though-

Dec 21, 2022 15:25:34 GMT Hardcastle said:

These dogs were for a great many years, from the English occupation of Bordeaux onwards, bred for encounters in the arena, being pitted against each other or against the bull, the bear, or the ass, and even as late as 1906 these encounters occasionally took place. Matador du Midi, a young fawn dog which Mr. H.C. Brooke imported in 1895, was of the old fighting strain, and amongst his ancestors were; Caporal (for seven years champion of the Pyrenees), Megre (a Bitch which had been pitted against bear, wolf, and Hyena) and Hercules (which was finally killed by a jaguar in a terrific battle in San Francisco). When it was 18 months old Mr. Brooke gave Matador du Midi a "jump" against a big Russian bear, and the dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass several times.

THE EVOLUTION OF THE BULLDOG - A HISTORICAL SURVEY By R. H. Voss - Dec. 15, 1933

That's a russian brown bear they're talking about.

The dog was basically an alano, it's attributed as a dogue de bordeaux only because they descend from it, but it lived in spain and realistically was closer to the modern alano (which also descend from the same dogs) rather than modern dogue de bordeauxs. All these dogs ultimately trace back to the same thing, and as far as breeds go the alano is the most faithful representation of the ancestral farm/hunting bulldog.

Look- the brass tacks are that the dog will never kill the black bear, BUT it will probably beat it up and make it look silly. The dogs do shockingly well against bears. It's a weird match up for bears that they seem to struggle with. Counter intuitively, I admit.

[oldgreengrolar]

I think the black bear will win as it has better grappling skills. The dog might be more aggressive and bites and shakes just as the bear does.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2022 18:52:23 GMT Hardcastle said:

Well ... so has the alano though-

Dec 21, 2022 15:25:34 GMT Hardcastle said:

THE EVOLUTION OF THE BULLDOG - A HISTORICAL SURVEY By R. H. Voss - Dec. 15, 1933

That's a russian brown bear they're talking about.

The dog was basically an alano, it's attributed as a dogue de bordeaux only because they descend from it, but it lived in spain and realistically was closer to the modern alano (which also descend from the same dogs) rather than modern dogue de bordeauxs. All these dogs ultimately trace back to the same thing, and as far as breeds go the alano is the most faithful representation of the ancestral farm/hunting bulldog.

Look- the brass tacks are that the dog will never kill the black bear, BUT it will probably beat it up and make it look silly. The dogs do shockingly well against bears. It's a weird match up for bears that they seem to struggle with. Counter intuitively, I admit.

Maybe it can hurt the bear a bit, but it’s still a complete mismatch.

Sow is interesting.

[Deleted]

I don’t favour any dog over a bear the size of an Asiatic Black bear or Sloth bear.

[Hardcastle]

Yeah it can't really do much damage (even though there was a case where a chained up pitbull tore off the lower jaw of a juvenile black bear that came over and messed with it- I'd say that was a pretty freakish incident).
My only argument is the dog could surprise you with it's ability to handle and control a bear in a close quarter struggle without dying. Just because the dog can't kill the bear, doesn't automatically mean the bear kills the dog immediately by default. It doesn't, gripping dogs can handle bears (within reason) fairly safely by grabbing their face and then pulling the bear off balance and manuevering their own body out of harm's way strategically. They have an extensive history of dealing with bears and it turns out they are good at it. I agree however they can't kill a bear.