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Post by s on Sept 16, 2023 13:26:04 GMT
How would these points about the average modern guy being an incel apply to working boarhounds? Average loser guys playing video games are not analogous to working boarhounds, maybe if you said "average mma fighter", and then yes they would all beat guys from 200 years ago (or a thousand years ago or 20 000 years ago) who were living hard lives. You yourself are saying that the wolf's lifestyle has pushed it to develop an anatomy and hunting sense that the domestic version lacks, as a product of human selection. That's like saying that the average person from the Paleolithic would have beated up the average person today badly without much difficulty. The fact of living the day to the limit, without having your survival guaranteed, shapes your body, your instinct and your mentality in an unparalleled way. Of course there will be cases in which a dog with a lot of physical advantage has killed a wolf. Some cases are seen, for example, with Turkish kangales when they kill the mini-wolves there, when they hook a juvenile or a sick wolf roaming around a farm. YouTube and the Internet are full of those videos. But it's still like the "a pitbull can beat a jaguar or a puma" thing, a joke from dog owners who want to see a kind of superhero in their companion, and which end up bordering on childishness. Obviously, the wolf, like any social or pack predator, is going to be extremely cautious, and will prefer to attack in groups to avoid any risk and make the process more efficient. There are many dog breeds that lack this feeling, and if they were free, their packs would soon die. There are videos of pit bulls going out to attack bison, so that in two seconds they can be blown into the air with almost no effort. This lack of sense of self-preservation is a direct path to extinction. Keep in mind that although an animal can kill its prey, a poorly healed wound or injury can leave it unable to hunt for a long time and pose a risk of death for the animal. You see it even with big cats like lions and tigers, which on certain occasions, when faced with a herbivore of formidable proportions, can think twice. |
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Post by s on Sept 17, 2023 9:12:33 GMT
Anyways, for the question itself:
Carnivorans:
Clouded Leopard (if the APBT is under 20kg)
Cape Leopard (if it's 20-25)
Other:
Decently-sized Eagle species (loses in a cage fight but wins in an open fight)
All venenous snake species close to the Pit's weight
Hypertoxical amphibians
Constrictor snakes close to the Pit's weight
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Post by Hardcastle on Sept 17, 2023 10:50:59 GMT
How would these points about the average modern guy being an incel apply to working boarhounds? Average loser guys playing video games are not analogous to working boarhounds, maybe if you said "average mma fighter", and then yes they would all beat guys from 200 years ago (or a thousand years ago or 20 000 years ago) who were living hard lives. You yourself are saying that the wolf's lifestyle has pushed it to develop an anatomy and hunting sense that the domestic version lacks, as a product of human selection. That's like saying that an equivalent of us from the European Paleolithic would have beated us up without much difficulty. The fact of living the day to the limit, without having your survival guaranteed, shapes your body, your instinct and your mentality in an unparalleled way. Of course there will be cases in which a dog with a lot of physical advantage has killed a wolf. Some cases are seen, for example, with Turkish kangales when they kill the mini-wolves there, when they hook a juvenile or a sick wolf roaming around a farm. YouTube and the Internet are full of those videos. But it's still like the "a pitbull can beat a jaguar or a puma" thing, a joke from dog owners who want to see a kind of superhero in their companion, and which end up bordering on childishness. Obviously, the wolf, like any social or pack predator, is going to be extremely cautious, and will prefer to attack in groups to avoid any risk and make the process more efficient. There are many dog breeds that lack this feeling, and if they were free, their packs would soon die. There are videos of pit bulls going out to attack bison, so that in two seconds they can be blown into the air with almost no effort. This lack of sense of self-preservation is a direct path to extinction. Keep in mind that although an animal can kill its prey, a poorly healed wound or injury can leave it unable to hunt for a long time and pose a risk of death for the animal. You see it even with big cats like lions and tigers, which on certain occasions, when faced with a herbivore of formidable proportions, can think twice. Right. An average person from the paleolithic would beat up an average person from today, and an average wolf would beat up an average dog from today. Combat specialist dogs are not average dogs from today, just as MMA fighters or wrestlers or elite rugby or american football players are not average people from today. Paleolithic people would be obliterated in a fight with an elite combat-sports athlete from today, badly and easily. But yes, they would also beat the average human from today. Many many many dogs are diminished wusses compared to wild wolves, there is no doubt about that, but those with high level combat focussed roles are not in that category. |
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 17:41:12 GMT
The fanboys saying that "60lbs Gamebred Pitbull is at combat parity with 120lbs Leopard/Puma/Wolf" need to stop taking meth.
"Gamebred" Pitbulls have experience fighting and brawling against other Dogs. Which is not the same as fighting or brawling Predators. Being good at fighting an Alabai does not necessarily translate into being good at fighting a Leopard. If you brought Napoleon into the modern day with a time machine and expected him to be as good of a Commander in the modern day as in the 19th century you would be wrong. "What's an airplane?" He would ask. Because just like Napoleonic Warfare was fought very differently from Modern Warfare, so is fighting other Dogs different from fighting Predators. A guy that is good at soccer and gets into basketball is not going to get all his soccer skills translated into Basketball.
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 17:43:11 GMT
A "Gamebred" Pitbull is probably going to perform better against predators than a normal Pitbull, but the performance difference is much smaller than the performance difference between a normal Pitbull and a "Gamebred" one at fighting other Dogs.
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 17:55:49 GMT
I made this post because on de Beastiary Hardcastle posted an extremely ignorant reply to me "if Pitbulls have beaten up Alabais, why do you think a Clouded Leopard has any chance of winning?"
Ireelevant. Completely different worlds, fighting other Dogs is not the same as fighting Predators. Being good at having experience at one thing does not translate into instantly being good at a very different thing you have no experience on
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 17:59:44 GMT
"yeah im very good at playing soccer, that clearly must mean that despite never having played basketball before, the second i do it all my soccer skills will be instantly translated and i will be as good at playing basketball as i am at playing soccer at my first basketball match"
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Post by Bolushi on Sept 24, 2023 18:11:52 GMT
The fanboys saying that "60lbs Gamebred Pitbull is at combat parity with 120lbs Leopard/Puma/Wolf" need to stop taking meth. "Gamebred" Pitbulls have experience fighting and brawling against other Dogs. Which is not the same as fighting or brawling Predators. Being good at fighting an Alabai does not necessarily translate into being good at fighting a Leopard. If you brought Napoleon into the modern day with a time machine and expected him to be as good of a Commander in the modern day as in the 19th century you would be wrong. "What's an airplane?" He would ask. Because just like Napoleonic Warfare was fought very differently from Modern Warfare, so is fighting other Dogs different from fighting Predators. A guy that is good at soccer and gets into basketball is not going to get all his soccer skills translated into Basketball. Sometimes hyperbolic statements like that need to be made. Would a 60lb gamebred APBT kill a 120lb puma/leopard? Nope. But it would be a fight. I would favor a puma/leopard once it has a 30lbs size advantage over the pitbull, perhaps. But dogs are a carnivoran predator... |
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 18:17:25 GMT
The fanboys saying that "60lbs Gamebred Pitbull is at combat parity with 120lbs Leopard/Puma/Wolf" need to stop taking meth. "Gamebred" Pitbulls have experience fighting and brawling against other Dogs. Which is not the same as fighting or brawling Predators. Being good at fighting an Alabai does not necessarily translate into being good at fighting a Leopard. If you brought Napoleon into the modern day with a time machine and expected him to be as good of a Commander in the modern day as in the 19th century you would be wrong. "What's an airplane?" He would ask. Because just like Napoleonic Warfare was fought very differently from Modern Warfare, so is fighting other Dogs different from fighting Predators. A guy that is good at soccer and gets into basketball is not going to get all his soccer skills translated into Basketball. Sometimes hyperbolic statements like that need to be made. Would a 60lb gamebred APBT kill a 120lb puma/leopard? Nope. But it would be a fight. I would favor a puma/leopard once it has a 30lbs size advantage over the pitbull, perhaps. But dogs are a carnivoran predator... Im aware they are. My point was that a Gamebred Pitbull has a lot of experience fighting other Dogs, but that experience and skill doesn't translate into being as good at fighting wild Predators that he has no experience fighting as he is at fighting other Dogs. Since they are very different activities. |
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Post by s on Sept 24, 2023 18:21:25 GMT
Make no mistake, because of having more general fighting skills a Gamebred Pitbull is going to be better at fighting a Wild Predator, despite never having actually fought one than a normal Pitbull. But the difference is far smaller than the performance gap between the Gamebred Pitbull and the normal Pitbull at fighting other dogs
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Post by Hardcastle on Sept 24, 2023 22:53:32 GMT
Make no mistake, because of having more general fighting skills a Gamebred Pitbull is going to be better at fighting a Wild Predator, despite never having actually fought one than a normal Pitbull. But the difference is far smaller than the performance gap between the Gamebred Pitbull and the normal Pitbull at fighting other dogs No it isn't. They're fundamentally Bulldogs (used on all manner of dangerous beasts - bovines wild and domestic, boars, bears, wolves, stags, badgers, big cats, humans, etc) and those skills transferred to dog fighting. So you have it backwards. They sure as hell still translate readily to the wild animals they were primarily adapted for. |
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Post by s on Sept 25, 2023 7:45:26 GMT
Make no mistake, because of having more general fighting skills a Gamebred Pitbull is going to be better at fighting a Wild Predator, despite never having actually fought one than a normal Pitbull. But the difference is far smaller than the performance gap between the Gamebred Pitbull and the normal Pitbull at fighting other dogs No it isn't. They're fundamentally Bulldogs (used on all manner of dangerous beasts - bovines wild and domestic, boars, bears, wolves, stags, badgers, big cats, humans, etc) and those skills transferred to dog fighting. So you have it backwards. They sure as hell still translate readily to the wild animals they were primarily adapted for. Pitbulls separated from those hunting Dogs, how long ago? 150 years ago? They deviated so long ago, and foe many generations since then they were selectively bred to fight other dogs, not to be used in hunting. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Sept 25, 2023 11:25:17 GMT
They are still regularly used in hunting, and that application is what actually shaped their morphology at a fundamental level. They are since USED as fighting dogs, by some, but fundamentally remain bulldogs.
Doing nothing can admittedly make dogs fall into unrecognisably bad shape quickly, but equally they can be repaired back into their former glory very quickly as well. Fighting dogs is also not "doing nothing", and it keeps them in good bulldog shape. Some may lose some instinctual inclinations, I have heard of "bad habits" for big game subjugation sneaking into "hot" (fighting) lines of apbt, but overall they mostly remain excellent big-game subjugation dogs.
I'll put it this way - fighting apbts are better big game subjugation dogs then show or pet alano espanols. Which is what most alano espanols are. Pitbulls remain basically the most popular and widely used catch dog in the world. They aren't my favourite by any means, bull arabs and bullstags are my favourites, and I could list off about 11 others I'd place above apbts as my personal preference (including alanos), but the fact is they are probably the most globally proven and widely used catch dog.
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Post by s on Oct 1, 2023 13:21:19 GMT
Yeah don't put () lol. What part's gonna rattle cages? This in particular: ''maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.'' Of course, that assumes there's anyone here who'd dare argue the contrary. But the people who would don't post. What is your source? Meth? A 60lbs "Gamebred APBT" has experience wrestling and fighting other Dogs, which is completely different from tackling a Puma. Very different worlds. It's like saying being good at soccer instantly makes you good at basketball. |
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Post by s on Oct 1, 2023 13:23:35 GMT
They are still regularly used in hunting, and that application is what actually shaped their morphology at a fundamental level. They are since USED as fighting dogs, by some, but fundamentally remain bulldogs. Doing nothing can admittedly make dogs fall into unrecognisably bad shape quickly, but equally they can be repaired back into their former glory very quickly as well. Fighting dogs is also not "doing nothing", and it keeps them in good bulldog shape. Some may lose some instinctual inclinations, I have heard of "bad habits" for big game subjugation sneaking into "hot" (fighting) lines of apbt, but overall they mostly remain excellent big-game subjugation dogs. I'll put it this way - fighting apbts are better big game subjugation dogs then show or pet alano espanols. Which is what most alano espanols are. Pitbulls remain basically the most popular and widely used catch dog in the world. They aren't my favourite by any means, bull arabs and bullstags are my favourites, and I could list off about 11 others I'd place above apbts as my personal preference (including alanos), but the fact is they are probably the most globally proven and widely used catch dog. Pitbulls are too slow to catch a good deal of Game. And not intelligent enough to operate well in packs. A single guy in Texas using them against Wild Pigs is far from being "the most widely used catch dog in the world" |
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