Minimum animal required to beat a gamebred APBT MOTN

[Deleted]

I'd say a male snow leopard.

[Deleted]

@ajay what do you think?

[Deleted]

Two quickquestions first if I may. What's "MOTN" mean in APBT MOTN? And how do you tag someone like you just did with me?

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2022 22:39:08 GMT @ajay said:

Two quickquestions first if I may. What's "MOTN" mean in APBT MOTN? And how do you tag someone like you just did with me?

@(name)
MOTN = More Often Than Not
I think you can ping everyone but Hardcastle. Nobody else can ping him.

[Deleted]

Thanks @(bolushi).

I'll go on "minimum weight out of land carnivorans" for "minimum animal".

A cat probably isn't a bad choice of carnivoran, because if the cat isn't strong enough in forelimbs to subdue the dog that way, it's got nothing, nothing whatsoever, more-or-less no fight at all. And the cat needs to be quite a lot heavier to subdue an APBT with forelimbs.

Nah I won't go with snow leopard, I'd go with cougar before snow leopard. Well we do know from limb long bone studies that cougars have impressive forelimbs for a cat. But still, they aren't the fighters that pantherines are, and against an APBT this isn't a hunt, this is a fight.

But instead of cougar I'll go with cheetah. I'll choose a big arse cheetah, the biggest on record, I don't know, lets say a 180 lb cheetah. I'll put my money on the 60 lb tested APBT to beat the 180 lb record cheetah, the dog being a third the cat's weight.

And with the cheetah not only having weaker forelimbs, but also relatively non-flexible limbs, this makes the cheetah's prospects even far worse. For this reason if I was looking at cats to lose to APBT, then besides forelimb robusticity and strength, I think you want to go with cats that are stiffer and less flexible, as I feel that flexibility combines with forelimb strength to subdue a dog, like for the cat to use it's forelimb strength to best effect, it needs flexibility, and the more flexible it is, the better.

So I would probably choose the African leopard last, given its high flexibility/grappling ability I think it would be able to use it's forelimb strength more effectively to subdue the dog than other cats.

Cougar is less flexible than African leopard and probably snow leopard too, so cougar would be my second choice in cats after cheetah, maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2022 23:04:09 GMT @ajay said:

Thanks @(bolushi).

I'll go on "minimum weight out of land carnivorans" for "minimum animal".

A cat probably isn't a bad choice of carnivoran, because if the cat isn't strong enough in forelimbs to subdue the dog that way, it's got nothing, nothing whatsoever, more-or-less no fight at all. And the cat needs to be quite a lot heavier to subdue an APBT with forelimbs.

Nah I won't go with snow leopard, I'd go with cougar before snow leopard. Well we do know from limb long bone studies that cougars have impressive forelimbs for a cat. But still, they aren't the fighters that pantherines are, and against an APBT this isn't a hunt, this is a fight.

But instead of cougar I'll go with cheetah. I'll choose a big arse cheetah, the biggest on record, I don't know, lets say a 180 lb cheetah. I'll put my money on the 60 lb tested APBT to beat the 180 lb record cheetah, the dog being a third the cat's weight.

And with the cheetah not only having weaker forelimbs, but also relatively non-flexible limbs, this makes the cheetah's prospects even far worse. For this reason if I was looking at cats to lose to APBT, then besides forelimb robusticity and strength, I think you want to go with cats that are stiffer and less flexible, as I feel that flexibility combines with forelimb strength to subdue a dog, like for the cat to use it's forelimb strength to best effect, it needs flexibility, and the more flexible it is, the better.

So I would probably choose the African leopard last, given its high flexibility/grappling ability I think it would be able to use it's forelimb strength more effectively to subdue the dog than other cats.

Cougar is less flexible than African leopard and probably snow leopard too, so cougar would be my second choice in cats after cheetah, maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.

Don't put the () lol

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2022 23:04:09 GMT @ajay said:

Thanks @(bolushi).

I'll go on "minimum weight out of land carnivorans" for "minimum animal".

A cat probably isn't a bad choice of carnivoran, because if the cat isn't strong enough in forelimbs to subdue the dog that way, it's got nothing, nothing whatsoever, more-or-less no fight at all. And the cat needs to be quite a lot heavier to subdue an APBT with forelimbs.

Nah I won't go with snow leopard, I'd go with cougar before snow leopard. Well we do know from limb long bone studies that cougars have impressive forelimbs for a cat. But still, they aren't the fighters that pantherines are, and against an APBT this isn't a hunt, this is a fight.

But instead of cougar I'll go with cheetah. I'll choose a big arse cheetah, the biggest on record, I don't know, lets say a 180 lb cheetah. I'll put my money on the 60 lb tested APBT to beat the 180 lb record cheetah, the dog being a third the cat's weight.

And with the cheetah not only having weaker forelimbs, but also relatively non-flexible limbs, this makes the cheetah's prospects even far worse. For this reason if I was looking at cats to lose to APBT, then besides forelimb robusticity and strength, I think you want to go with cats that are stiffer and less flexible, as I feel that flexibility combines with forelimb strength to subdue a dog, like for the cat to use it's forelimb strength to best effect, it needs flexibility, and the more flexible it is, the better.

So I would probably choose the African leopard last, given its high flexibility/grappling ability I think it would be able to use it's forelimb strength more effectively to subdue the dog than other cats.

Cougar is less flexible than African leopard and probably snow leopard too, so cougar would be my second choice in cats after cheetah, maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.

That will rattle a few cages, not mine though lol.

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2022 23:05:58 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 15, 2022 23:04:09 GMT @ajay said:

Thanks @(bolushi).

I'll go on "minimum weight out of land carnivorans" for "minimum animal".

A cat probably isn't a bad choice of carnivoran, because if the cat isn't strong enough in forelimbs to subdue the dog that way, it's got nothing, nothing whatsoever, more-or-less no fight at all. And the cat needs to be quite a lot heavier to subdue an APBT with forelimbs.

Nah I won't go with snow leopard, I'd go with cougar before snow leopard. Well we do know from limb long bone studies that cougars have impressive forelimbs for a cat. But still, they aren't the fighters that pantherines are, and against an APBT this isn't a hunt, this is a fight.

But instead of cougar I'll go with cheetah. I'll choose a big arse cheetah, the biggest on record, I don't know, lets say a 180 lb cheetah. I'll put my money on the 60 lb tested APBT to beat the 180 lb record cheetah, the dog being a third the cat's weight.

And with the cheetah not only having weaker forelimbs, but also relatively non-flexible limbs, this makes the cheetah's prospects even far worse. For this reason if I was looking at cats to lose to APBT, then besides forelimb robusticity and strength, I think you want to go with cats that are stiffer and less flexible, as I feel that flexibility combines with forelimb strength to subdue a dog, like for the cat to use it's forelimb strength to best effect, it needs flexibility, and the more flexible it is, the better.

So I would probably choose the African leopard last, given its high flexibility/grappling ability I think it would be able to use it's forelimb strength more effectively to subdue the dog than other cats.

Cougar is less flexible than African leopard and probably snow leopard too, so cougar would be my second choice in cats after cheetah, maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.

Don't put the () lol

Yeah don't put () lol.

What part's gonna rattle cages?

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2022 23:15:17 GMT @ajay said:

Dec 15, 2022 23:05:58 GMT Bolushi said:

Don't put the () lol

Yeah don't put () lol.

What part's gonna rattle cages?

This in particular: ''maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.''
Of course, that assumes there's anyone here who'd dare argue the contrary. But the people who would don't post.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2022 0:34:35 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 15, 2022 23:15:17 GMT @ajay said:

Yeah don't put () lol.

What part's gonna rattle cages?

This in particular: ''maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.''
Of course, that assumes there's anyone here who'd dare argue the contrary. But the people who would don't post.

Yeah that was a lazy question, it pretty much speaks for itself. After all we're talking about the lb-for-lb cream of the crop for fighting when it comes to dogs, the lb-for-lb gap between a fighting APBT and other wild animal is significant. The APBT is not a natural animal, it's a freak of nature not only physiologically, but in psychology what with not worry about a survival instinct. That's a dangerous mindset.

Might give a slightly lower weight for African leopard to beat tested APBT, like 10 or 20 lbs below the cougar's weight. I'd consider the African leopard to have both a psychological as well as morphological advantage compared to the cougar for fighting APBT. Like a 120 lb African leopard might subdue the 60 lb APBT.

But for a very physically large and especially talented specimen like Mayday say fighting him at 80 lbs I'm thinking you want nothing less than a large leopard tom to handle that.

I think it's just very easy for those that aren't familiar with what goes into the development of fighting pits to not realize how good they actually are at fighting, lb-for-lb they literally are super-duper freakish specimens compared to natural-made wild counterparts.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2022 19:16:57 GMT @ajay said:

Dec 16, 2022 0:34:35 GMT Bolushi said:

This in particular: ''maybe like a 150 lb cougar will subdue a 60 lb tested APBT, while a 120 lb cougar will not.''
Of course, that assumes there's anyone here who'd dare argue the contrary. But the people who would don't post.

Yeah that was a lazy question, it pretty much speaks for itself. After all we're talking about the lb-for-lb cream of the crop for fighting when it comes to dogs, the lb-for-lb gap between a fighting APBT and other wild animal is significant. The APBT is not a natural animal, it's a freak of nature not only physiologically, but in psychology what with not worry about a survival instinct. That's a dangerous mindset.

Might give a slightly lower weight for African leopard to beat tested APBT, like 10 or 20 lbs below the cougar's weight. I'd consider the African leopard to have both a psychological as well as morphological advantage compared to the cougar for fighting APBT. Like a 120 lb African leopard might subdue the 60 lb APBT.

But for a very physically large and especially talented specimen like Mayday say fighting him at 80 lbs I'm thinking you want nothing less than a large leopard tom to handle that.

I think it's just very easy for those that aren't familiar with what goes into the development of fighting pits to not realize how good they actually are at fighting, lb-for-lb they literally are super-duper freakish specimens compared to natural-made wild counterparts.

Mayday was 59lbs I think, 69lbs chainweight. Unless you mean 80lb leopard? I think that'd be a massacre, the leopard would find itself getting dragged instantly.

[Johnson]

Probably an Eurasian Lynx.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2022 4:14:21 GMT Johnson said:

Probably an Eurasian Lynx.

How big?
A Eurasian lynx doesn't have the muscle density, power to weight ratio and damage output necessary to damage a pitbull vaguely close to it in size. A clouded leopard does, but it's too small and every bite would be catastrophic. The Eurasian lynx would need a very large size advantage if it wants to control the pitbull.

[Johnson]

Dec 17, 2022 4:17:41 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 17, 2022 4:14:21 GMT Johnson said:

Probably an Eurasian Lynx.

How big?
A Eurasian lynx doesn't have the muscle density, power to weight ratio and damage output necessary to damage a pitbull vaguely close to it in size. A clouded leopard does, but it's too small and every bite would be catastrophic. The Eurasian lynx would need a very large size advantage if it wants to control the pitbull.

Since the Sunda Clouded Leopards and Russian Eurasian Lynx are similar sized to the APBT, they both might be able to kill the dog.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2022 7:00:00 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 17, 2022 4:17:41 GMT Bolushi said:

How big?
A Eurasian lynx doesn't have the muscle density, power to weight ratio and damage output necessary to damage a pitbull vaguely close to it in size. A clouded leopard does, but it's too small and every bite would be catastrophic. The Eurasian lynx would need a very large size advantage if it wants to control the pitbull.

Since the Sunda Clouded Leopards and Russian Eurasian Lynx are similar sized to the APBT, they both might be able to kill the dog.

And how would the lynx go about doing that? Giving it puncture wounds in its muscles? Give it rabies?