Minimum animal required to beat a gamebred APBT MOTN

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 7:07:01 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 18, 2022 4:48:16 GMT Bolushi said:

Johnson, let's run a fine toothed comb over a lynx/clouded leopard beating an APBT of similar size. Or any bull breed for that matter.
The carnivore limb robusticity study reads:


carnivora.net/carnivore-limb-robusticity-study-t2687.html
7.54% is not a lot. Also what's even worse is the Eurasian Lynx scores 6.67%, but let's ignore that in your favor.
It has the clouded leopard at 9.01%, quite a stocky feline.
Unfortunately for the lynx, the Vindolanda boarhound is 28% more robust than the gray wolf which is already superior to any lynx in robusticity. The full study is in the Quora post archive thread.
That's not good, the lynx is not in good stead to grapple down a whippet let alone a gripping dog.
One bite from the pitbull would have the lynx's guts spilling out of its mouth. Even at a size disadvantage.
''Just as a point of interest, however, the little dog Jocko was at one time pitted against a bobcat that actually outweighed him. Jocko tipped the scales at 28 pounds. The bobcat was kept by a saloon keeper in Colorado. (This was in the early part of the last century.) I’m not clear how they managed to weight the bobcat, but he was reputed to weigh 35 pounds. Surprisingly, most of the men seemed to feel the bobcat might take Jocko, but then, none of the men were seasoned pit dog men. In any case, Jocko killed the bobcat very quickly by crushing his skull.''
game-dog.com/index.php?threads/jocko-and-the-bobcat.17842/
And from then on the practice was abandoned, there was no show to be put on. Just death. Don't be surprised if you see some pitbull guy with a bobcat in the back of his truck kicking and screaming in its cage to be used as live bait for their bulldogs. No different from raccoons, foxes, opossums etc. that all meet the same fate.
The clouded leopard is a half decent opponent, but the pitbull is more robust than it too. Cougars score 9.39%, more than the clouded leopard. They score 15% more proportionally robust than gray wolves. Again, boarhounds are 28% more robust than gray wolves.
Also the wolf scores the same in both, so yes they translate into each other perfectly.
Robusticity may not be everything, but it is indicative of who will be overpowering who. And if a clouded leopard ends up with a pitbull on top of it, that fight will last about a minute. Its body is too small to withstand the crushing bites of the pitbull, who is liable to end up crushing internal organs. Also, the mauling will overtime (over seconds) turn the clouded leopard's muscles to mush making it weaker every second.
''Instead these dogs will mutilate and cause hemorrhaging to the muscles with their bites. You can have a perfectly intact animal, whether it be raccoon, wild cat, wild dog, badger etc and find the animal to look just fine on face value. But a bit of physical prodding to the area/areas where the dog focused its bites would reveal a mushy depression that once held powerful muscles. These areas have been pulverized and crushed to the point where they are near useless in function. Skinning the animal will reveal extensive black bruising and a mess that the unbroken skin effectively concealed.'' - Lycaon
A hound is not a pitbull, but hounds can also kill lynxes. Granted, they can lose too, to Eurasian lynxes. I don't get what part of that impresses you? ''Worst canid fighter can lose to lynx, so best canid fighter might lose.'' It cannot happen, it is incapable of happening. The only pitbulls losing to lynxes are petbulls that aren't fighting back. And it reflects badly on lynxes that they can never do near fatal damage despite their target offering no resistance. They're essentially trying to work over a test dummy.
Don't pretend bulldog vs lynx is a contest. It's not.

I am not sure robustness is the only factor.

Grappling can also work.

For example, a Lynx can force a larger Wolf to the ground.





 

Now I am not disputing that this Wolf can kill a Lynx, but if the Lynx has the grappling advantage against a larger canid, then it can surely force a comparable sized pitbull to the ground and kill it.

A big/robust build can only work if the dog is attacking another dog or a child.

Pitbulls attack anything, so that was an impressive show from the smaller Bobcat. Especially when it was two pitbulls and a hunter against one Bobcat.


Also, is the Jocko story a tall tale? I searched for 'Jocko and the Bobcat' and found this story for children.





I guess the pitbull will win if it is 2-3 times the size of the Lynx.

Oh, so you didn't read the study. Because if you did you wouldn't use a lynx grappling down a sick wolf with mange as evidence and failing to kill it. I win then.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 7:07:01 GMT Johnson said:

Problem is the gamebred pitbull outclasses gray wolf by absolute light-years.

If I'm asked the result of lynx vs gray wolf at combat parity, I'd say yeah we can talk about a contest. But I wouldn't with working bulldog.

I absolutely imagine sometimes lynxs take slightly heavier wolves to the ground. Wolves are gangly marathon runners and far easier to ground than bulldog.

Wolves, unlike bulldogs, do not have the robusticity or build for control that a bulldog has. A bulldog of equal weight will be far more difficult to ground than a wolf, we're talking totally different worlds.

The wolf admittedly has a superior killing bite, but in the discussion of cat grounding canid the wolf is basically an ordinary carnivoran in its ability to deal with that threat, middle-of-the-road. The bulldog is anything but.

This brings to mind another common misconception, that wolves are superior fighters to domestic dogs, a conception that happens to be nothing short of complete nonsense. Folks popularly mythologize the wild, Wild > Domestic. But this is not always the case when talking about working dogs that have at least comparable combat experience to the wild counterpart.

The gamebred pitbull is a psycho, a freak of nature that has little survival instinct, willing to go all the way without pause or second thought. And the physical tools, experience and training to back it up.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 9:14:53 GMT @ajay said:

Dec 18, 2022 7:07:01 GMT Johnson said:

Problem is the gamebred pitbull outclasses gray wolf by absolute light-years.

If I'm asked the result of lynx vs gray wolf at combat parity, I'd say yeah we can talk about a contest. But I wouldn't with working bulldog.

I absolutely imagine sometimes lynxs take slightly heavier wolves to the ground. Wolves are gangly marathon runners and far easier to ground than bulldog.

Wolves, unlike bulldogs, do not have the robusticity or build for control that a bulldog has. A bulldog of equal weight will be far more difficult to ground than a wolf, we're talking totally different worlds.

The wolf admittedly has a superior killing bite, but in the discussion of cat grounding canid the wolf is basically an ordinary carnivoran in its ability to deal with that threat, middle-of-the-road. The bulldog is anything but.

This brings to mind another common misconception, that wolves are superior fighters to domestic dogs, a conception that happens to be nothing short of complete nonsense. Folks popularly mythologize the wild, Wild > Domestic. But this is not always the case when talking about working dogs that have at least comparable combat experience to the wild counterpart.

The gamebred pitbull is a psycho, a freak of nature that has little survival instinct, willing to go all the way without pause or second thought. And the physical tools, experience and training to back it up.

Coyotes clobber lynxes, it seems that even when dominating the grapple the lynx doesn't have the damage output to make it count. I've yet to hear of a healthy wolf or coyote being killed by a lynx.

[Johnson]

Dec 18, 2022 9:14:53 GMT @ajay said:

Dec 18, 2022 7:07:01 GMT Johnson said:

Problem is the gamebred pitbull outclasses gray wolf by absolute light-years.

If I'm asked the result of lynx vs gray wolf at combat parity, I'd say yeah we can talk about a contest. But I wouldn't with working bulldog.

I absolutely imagine sometimes lynxs take slightly heavier wolves to the ground. Wolves are gangly marathon runners and far easier to ground than bulldog.

Wolves, unlike bulldogs, do not have the robusticity or build for control that a bulldog has. A bulldog of equal weight will be far more difficult to ground than a wolf, we're talking totally different worlds.

The wolf admittedly has a superior killing bite, but in the discussion of cat grounding canid the wolf is basically an ordinary carnivoran in its ability to deal with that threat, middle-of-the-road. The bulldog is anything but.

This brings to mind another common misconception, that wolves are superior fighters to domestic dogs, a conception that happens to be nothing short of complete nonsense. Folks popularly mythologize the wild, Wild > Domestic. But this is not always the case when talking about working dogs that have at least comparable combat experience to the wild counterpart.

The gamebred pitbull is a psycho, a freak of nature that has little survival instinct, willing to go all the way without pause or second thought. And the physical tools, experience and training to back it up.

Isn't there a video of a Wolf defeating a pitbull?

[Hardcastle]

He said gamebred pitbull, which is a different animal. Literally a totally different animal. More different than an african leopard vs snow leopard or coyote vs grey wolf. Far more different. Animals are the result of what they do. The lifestyle and activity sculpts the animal, so if an animal does nothing and is a pet, that's what it is. If an animal is an elite professional fighter, that is what it is. You can see then how wild survivalist predators are actually more the same even when they are totally different species, than dogs which result from polar opposite lifestyles. Apples and oranges doesn't cut it, more like comparing apples with dishwashing liquid.

I think wolf vs gamebred pitbull is a lot closer than lynx vs gamebred pitbull, even if maybe at parity (maybe) a eurasian lynx might beat a wolf. In fact, that fat petbull that was beaten by the wolf would for sure smash a lynx. Styles make fights, and there's NOTHING a lynx can do to a pitbull. At least a grey wolf has a puncher's chance with it's snapping bite. Wolves play into the hands of cats with their stand-offish stand-back style. They give the cat time and space to think and formulate an attack, which they need to be effective. The wolf is then also proportionately gracile and weak, so the cat can breathe, think, calculate it's assault, initiate it's assault, and then it has a mere weak wolf to control and subdue and kill. A pitbull takes all of that away. The cat has no time to think, no time to calculate it's assassination, it is immediately put into defense mode as the dog pushes up into it's face and assaults it, the dog is way stronger than it and thus impossible to control and subdue with it's little forepaws anyway, but it will more just be hissing and swiping and then clawing in an attempt to defensively deter the attack, and it won't work because the dog won't care about scratches. The lynx will be on it's back getting mauled, for sure, being used like a mop on the ground. Here it's gracile bones will betray it as they can't withstand the punishment of crushing jaws. From what I have read from hunters strong dogs against lynxes (even jagd terriers against bobcats) actually tend to crush their ribcages, if they don't break their necks instead. They aren't built to endure punishment of this nature.

[Johnson]

Dec 18, 2022 7:29:55 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 18, 2022 7:07:01 GMT Johnson said:

I am not sure robustness is the only factor.

Grappling can also work.

For example, a Lynx can force a larger Wolf to the ground.





 

Now I am not disputing that this Wolf can kill a Lynx, but if the Lynx has the grappling advantage against a larger canid, then it can surely force a comparable sized pitbull to the ground and kill it.

A big/robust build can only work if the dog is attacking another dog or a child.

Pitbulls attack anything, so that was an impressive show from the smaller Bobcat. Especially when it was two pitbulls and a hunter against one Bobcat.


Also, is the Jocko story a tall tale? I searched for 'Jocko and the Bobcat' and found this story for children.





I guess the pitbull will win if it is 2-3 times the size of the Lynx.

Oh, so you didn't read the study. Because if you did you wouldn't use a lynx grappling down a sick wolf with mange as evidence and failing to kill it. I win then.

I pointed out that grappling beats robustness.

The Wolf must have been around 35-45 kg. The Lynx was probably in the lower 20s kg.

If a pitbull is 28% more robust than a wolf, then a wolf would be 29 kg compared to a 23 kg pitbull. So if a Lynx can physically wrestle a Wolf probably 1.5-2x its size, then they should be able to wrestle down a similar pitbull and possibly kill it. They have killed dogs including elkhounds, scenthounds and spitz breeds which are comparable sized.

I have searched up on carnivora.net and found that.

-A Lynx has killed many types of dogs

-A Lynx can hold its own against a significantly larger Wolf.

-There is a video of a Wolf beating a pitbull in a forest

-The smaller relative of a Lynx, the Bobcat, can injure a larger pitbull. The pitbull could have been a pet, but it also could have been a hunting dog since it was owned by a hunter in Texas(state is notorious for use of pitbulls a catchdogs for Wild Boar).

-Grappling seems to be effective in subduing canids. Lynx may be weaker than a Wolverine or Clouded Leopard, bit it will still have the edge over the dog family due to its better use of paws



That being said, a pitbull would be a closer match for a Lynx compared to all the other canids.

This would mean that a Lynx would win 51% of the times.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 22:10:55 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 18, 2022 9:14:53 GMT @ajay said:

Problem is the gamebred pitbull outclasses gray wolf by absolute light-years.

If I'm asked the result of lynx vs gray wolf at combat parity, I'd say yeah we can talk about a contest. But I wouldn't with working bulldog.

I absolutely imagine sometimes lynxs take slightly heavier wolves to the ground. Wolves are gangly marathon runners and far easier to ground than bulldog.

Wolves, unlike bulldogs, do not have the robusticity or build for control that a bulldog has. A bulldog of equal weight will be far more difficult to ground than a wolf, we're talking totally different worlds.

The wolf admittedly has a superior killing bite, but in the discussion of cat grounding canid the wolf is basically an ordinary carnivoran in its ability to deal with that threat, middle-of-the-road. The bulldog is anything but.

This brings to mind another common misconception, that wolves are superior fighters to domestic dogs, a conception that happens to be nothing short of complete nonsense. Folks popularly mythologize the wild, Wild > Domestic. But this is not always the case when talking about working dogs that have at least comparable combat experience to the wild counterpart.

The gamebred pitbull is a psycho, a freak of nature that has little survival instinct, willing to go all the way without pause or second thought. And the physical tools, experience and training to back it up.

Isn't there a video of a Wolf defeating a pitbull?

I'm not sure Johnson but I'd definitely be a given that lots of wolves will beat lots of pitbulls, even at combat parity, even with the wolf often having a weight disadvantage. But here we're exclusively referring to experienced, "working" pitbulls, dogs that actually have combat experience at least comparable to the wild counterpart. Never petbulls/non-working dogs. There's just no point, it's somewhat like using a hopelessly tame lion in matchups that's never been in the wild and has been tied up in an enclosure it's entire life, discouraged from fighting.

There is no bottom to how bad a good percentage of companion, non-working pitbulls (petbulls) can be, like as I said in a previous comment, you'll find pitbulls coping a hiding from bobcats.

I wouldn't even be surprised if most wolves beat most petbulls, I don't know. Not sure of the percentage of petbulls to working pits, but assuming there were far more petbulls than the working version, for all I know wolves win against the pitbull breed at large MOTN.

But the question here was specifically referring to "gamebred" pitbulls, so we're talking about combat veterans trained and highly specialized for combat and control, not clueless petbulls.

The spectrum of domestic dog combat experience runs from the complete-extreme to complete-extreme. A gamebred pitbull is an absolute master, while petbulls in like the 5th percentile band won't/can't fight to save themselves. The latter type realize about 0.1% of their morphology when faced with a fight, and even average petbulls are only realizing about 5% of their morphology when faced with a fight.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 22:26:27 GMT Hardcastle said:

He said gamebred pitbull, which is a different animal. Literally a totally different animal. More different than an african leopard vs snow leopard or coyote vs grey wolf. Far more different. Animals are the result of what they do. The lifestyle and activity sculpts the animal, so if an animal does nothing and is a pet, that's what it is. If an animal is an elite professional fighter, that is what it is. You can see then how wild survivalist predators are actually more the same even when they are totally different species, than dogs which result from polar opposite lifestyles. Apples and oranges doesn't cut it, more like comparing apples with dishwashing liquid.

I think wolf vs gamebred pitbull is a lot closer than lynx vs gamebred pitbull, even if maybe at parity (maybe) a eurasian lynx might beat a wolf. In fact, that fat petbull that was beaten by the wolf would for sure smash a lynx. Styles make fights, and there's NOTHING a lynx can do to a pitbull. At least a grey wolf has a puncher's chance with it's snapping bite. Wolves play into the hands of cats with their stand-offish stand-back style. They give the cat time and space to think and formulate an attack, which they need to be effective. The wolf is then also proportionately gracile and weak, so the cat can breathe, think, calculate it's assault, initiate it's assault, and then it has a mere weak wolf to control and subdue and kill. A pitbull takes all of that away. The cat has no time to think, no time to calculate it's assassination, it is immediately put into defense mode as the dog pushes up into it's face and assaults it, the dog is way stronger than it and thus impossible to control and subdue with it's little forepaws anyway, but it will more just be hissing and swiping and then clawing in an attempt to defensively deter the attack, and it won't work because the dog won't care about scratches. The lynx will be on it's back getting mauled, for sure, being used like a mop on the ground. Here it's gracile bones will betray it as they can't withstand the punishment of crushing jaws. From what I have read from hunters strong dogs against lynxes (even jagd terriers against bobcats) actually tend to crush their ribcages, if they don't break their necks instead. They aren't built to endure punishment of this nature.

That's why he's 100% ^^^

[Hardcastle]

Dec 18, 2022 22:31:41 GMT Johnson said:

I pointed out that grappling beats robustness.

The Wolf must have been around 35-45 kg. The Lynx was probably in the lower 20s kg.

If a pitbull is 28% more robust than a wolf, then a wolf would be 29 kg compared to a 23 kg pitbull. So if a Lynx can physically wrestle a Wolf probably 1.5-2x its size, then they should be able to wrestle down a similar pitbull and possibly kill it. They have killed dogs including elkhounds, scenthounds and spitz breeds which are comparable sized.

I have searched up on carnivora.net and found that.

-A Lynx has killed many types of dogs

-A Lynx can hold its own against a significantly larger Wolf.

-There is a video of a Wolf beating a pitbull in a forest

-The smaller relative of a Lynx, the Bobcat, can injure a larger pitbull. The pitbull could have been a pet, but it also could have been a hunting dog since it was owned by a hunter in Texas(state is notorious for use of pitbulls a catchdogs for Wild Boar).

-Grappling seems to be effective in subduing canids. Lynx may be weaker than a Wolverine or Clouded Leopard, bit it will still have the edge over the dog family due to its better use of paws



That being said, a pitbull would be a closer match for a Lynx compared to all the other canids.

This would mean that a Lynx would win 51% of the times.

Interesting logical extrapolations.

So lets use some similar ones for this case.
A lion fight in England

On Tuesday, the 26th of July, 1825, there was a "fight," if so it might be called, between a lion and dogs, which is thus reported in the public journals

A story was told of the lion "Nero" having already had a trial in the way of "give and take," with a bull bitch, who had attacked him, but, at the first onset, been bitten through the throat. The bitch was said to have been got off by throwing meat to the lion; and if the account were true, the result was only such as with a single dog, against such odds, might reasonably have been expected.

The average weight of those which fought was from about five and thirty to five and forty pounds each; one had been brought over that weighed more than sixty, but he was on some account or other excluded from the contest.

In two or three minutes more, the second dog, Tiger, being dreadfully maimed, crawled out of the gcae [cage]; and the brown dog, Turk, which was the lightest of the three, but of admirable courage, went on fighting by himself. A most extraordinary scene then ensued: the dog, left entirely alone with an animal of twenty times its weight, continued the battle with unabated fury, and, though bleeding all over from the effect of the lion's claws, seized and pinned him by the nose at least half a dozen times

So a 35 lbs dog bettered a 400-500 lbs lion by itself during this fight. I guess then, by your logical mathematical equations, it follows that a teacup chihuahua would beat 4 lynxes at once. There's no dog small enough to be analogous to this dog's size disadvantage with a lynx. Such a dog would weigh half a kilogram, but the teacup chihuahua weighs about 2, so we need 4 lynxes I guess to match a chihuahua. Using your logic.

[Johnson]

Dec 18, 2022 23:19:19 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 18, 2022 22:31:41 GMT Johnson said:

I pointed out that grappling beats robustness.

The Wolf must have been around 35-45 kg. The Lynx was probably in the lower 20s kg.

If a pitbull is 28% more robust than a wolf, then a wolf would be 29 kg compared to a 23 kg pitbull. So if a Lynx can physically wrestle a Wolf probably 1.5-2x its size, then they should be able to wrestle down a similar pitbull and possibly kill it. They have killed dogs including elkhounds, scenthounds and spitz breeds which are comparable sized.

I have searched up on carnivora.net and found that.

-A Lynx has killed many types of dogs

-A Lynx can hold its own against a significantly larger Wolf.

-There is a video of a Wolf beating a pitbull in a forest

-The smaller relative of a Lynx, the Bobcat, can injure a larger pitbull. The pitbull could have been a pet, but it also could have been a hunting dog since it was owned by a hunter in Texas(state is notorious for use of pitbulls a catchdogs for Wild Boar).

-Grappling seems to be effective in subduing canids. Lynx may be weaker than a Wolverine or Clouded Leopard, bit it will still have the edge over the dog family due to its better use of paws



That being said, a pitbull would be a closer match for a Lynx compared to all the other canids.

This would mean that a Lynx would win 51% of the times.

Interesting logical extrapolations.

So lets use some similar ones for this case.
A lion fight in England

On Tuesday, the 26th of July, 1825, there was a "fight," if so it might be called, between a lion and dogs, which is thus reported in the public journals

A story was told of the lion "Nero" having already had a trial in the way of "give and take," with a bull bitch, who had attacked him, but, at the first onset, been bitten through the throat. The bitch was said to have been got off by throwing meat to the lion; and if the account were true, the result was only such as with a single dog, against such odds, might reasonably have been expected.

The average weight of those which fought was from about five and thirty to five and forty pounds each; one had been brought over that weighed more than sixty, but he was on some account or other excluded from the contest.

In two or three minutes more, the second dog, Tiger, being dreadfully maimed, crawled out of the gcae [cage]; and the brown dog, Turk, which was the lightest of the three, but of admirable courage, went on fighting by himself. A most extraordinary scene then ensued: the dog, left entirely alone with an animal of twenty times its weight, continued the battle with unabated fury, and, though bleeding all over from the effect of the lion's claws, seized and pinned him by the nose at least half a dozen times

So a 35 lbs dog bettered a 400-500 lbs lion by itself during this fight. I guess then, by your logical mathematical equations, it follows that a teacup chihuahua would beat 4 lynxes at once. There's no dog small enough to be analogous to this dog's size disadvantage with a lynx. Such a dog would weigh half a kilogram, but the teacup chihuahua weighs about 2, so we need 4 lynxes I guess to match a chihuahua. Using your logic.

Your account looks old and exaggerated since it is from the 1820s.

At least all my accounts are modern and legitimate.

[Hardcastle]

It's a very sober matter of fact account from a newspaper. It doesn't seem exaggerated at all. It was a big case that changed laws in England and is very real.
The lion was a captive pampered wuss (like most pet dogs) and didn't understand how to fight or kill. Different dogs were matched against a different lion a couple of days later which decimated them.

"In the first round, Tinker and Ball were let loose, and both made a gallant attack; the lion having waited for them as if aware of the approach of his foes. He showed himself a forest lion, and fought like one. He clapped his paw upon poor Ball, took Tinker in his teeth, and deliberately walked round the stage with him as a cat would with a mouse. Ball, released from the paw, worked all he could, but Wallace treated his slight punishment by a kick now and then. He at length dropped Tinker, and that poor animal crawled off the stage as well as he could. The lion then seized Ball by the mouth, and played precisely the same game with him as if he had actually been trained to it. Ball would have been almost devoured, but his second got hold of him through the bars, and hauled him away. Turpin, a London, and Sweep, a Liverpool dog, made an excellent attack, but it was three or four minutes before the ingenuity of their seconds could get them on. Wallace squatted on his haunches, and placed himself erect at the slope where the dogs mounted the stage, as if he thought they dared not approach. The dogs, when on, fought gallantly; but both were vanquished in less than a minute after their attack. The London dog bolted as soon as he could extricate himself from the lion's grasp, but Sweep would have been killed on the spot, but he was released. Wedgbury untied Billy and Tiger, casting a most piteous look upon the wounded dogs around him. Both went to work. Wallace seized Billy by the loins, and when shaking him, Tiger having run away, Wedgbury cried out, 'There, you see how you've gammoned me to have the best dog in England killed.' Billy, however, escaped with his life; he was dragged through the railing, after having received a mark in the loins, which (if he recovers at all) will probably render him unfit for any future contest[.] The victory of course was declared in favour of the lion.—Several well-dressed women viewed the contest from the uppr apartment of the factory."—Women!

The point isn't that your cases are bullshit, it's that your logic is bullshit. You're concluding far too much, even about each individual case, let alone the reaches and stretches in logic you then go on to apply to totally different animals.

A wolf did maim a petbull, lynxes have scratched up petbulls. And a 35 lbs dog beat the shit out of a lion. These are all true, and all irrelevant. Nothing is more debilitating than being a pampered wuss pet, and all these cases simply demonstrate that fact, very clearly. They feature invalid contestants.

You can't conclude anything about a serious fighting gamebred pitbull from pampered soft petbulls, and you also seem to want to conclude things about serious fighting gamebred pitbulls from totally different dogs- wolves, elkhounds, etc. You can't do that. Your accuracy is predictably extraordinarily skewed off from reality when you do.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2022 22:31:41 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 18, 2022 7:29:55 GMT Bolushi said:

Oh, so you didn't read the study. Because if you did you wouldn't use a lynx grappling down a sick wolf with mange as evidence and failing to kill it. I win then.

I pointed out that grappling beats robustness.

The Wolf must have been around 35-45 kg. The Lynx was probably in the lower 20s kg.

If a pitbull is 28% more robust than a wolf, then a wolf would be 29 kg compared to a 23 kg pitbull. So if a Lynx can physically wrestle a Wolf probably 1.5-2x its size, then they should be able to wrestle down a similar pitbull and possibly kill it. They have killed dogs including elkhounds, scenthounds and spitz breeds which are comparable sized.

I have searched up on carnivora.net and found that.

-A Lynx has killed many types of dogs

-A Lynx can hold its own against a significantly larger Wolf.

-There is a video of a Wolf beating a pitbull in a forest

-The smaller relative of a Lynx, the Bobcat, can injure a larger pitbull. The pitbull could have been a pet, but it also could have been a hunting dog since it was owned by a hunter in Texas(state is notorious for use of pitbulls a catchdogs for Wild Boar).

-Grappling seems to be effective in subduing canids. Lynx may be weaker than a Wolverine or Clouded Leopard, bit it will still have the edge over the dog family due to its better use of paws



That being said, a pitbull would be a closer match for a Lynx compared to all the other canids.

This would mean that a Lynx would win 51% of the times.

-A Lynx has killed many types of dogs - Exactly how many of those were working dogs and what type?


-A Lynx can hold its own against a significantly larger Wolf. - You mean a 10lb larger sick wolf with mange that didn't even want to participate?


-There is a video of a Wolf beating a pitbull in a forest - That wasn't a wolf or pitbull, it was a wolfdog and a fat American Bully


-The smaller relative of a Lynx, the Bobcat, can injure a larger pitbull. The pitbull could have been a pet, but it also could have been a hunting dog since it was owned by a hunter in Texas(state is notorious for use of pitbulls a catchdogs for Wild Boar). - If the pitbull was being used as a catch dog it wouldn't've ended up on the news.


-Grappling seems to be effective in subduing canids. Lynx may be weaker than a Wolverine or Clouded Leopard, bit it will still have the edge over the dog family due to its better use of paws - Pitbulls were never grappled down, they just didn't fight back and got scratched and bitten up. If the lynx did grapple it down, it would have 2 holes in its neck. Not getting anywhere because the lynx's teeth aren't long enough but that's where the injuries would be.

[Deleted]

blue-ringed octopus
, in theory of course.

[s]

Whats the Pit's weight?

[s]

Also i think Pitbull's robusticity is exaggerated quite a bit here, if i had to guess it's similar to that of Red Wolf, the most robust extant Wolf, 8% ML that is, very good but not close to 12.5%. Pitbulls just like all domestic Dogs are Canis LUPUS Familiaris, so i disagree with them being insanely superior to Wolves in robusticity.