Bull Arab (pack of 4) Vs (Wild) Banteng

[s]

Round 1: "realistic" fight, to win the Banteng has to make the Bull Arabs think "yeah, not worth it" and withdraw, for the Bull Arabs to win they need to make the Banteng kind of give up and also think "yeah, not worth the effort", no killing necessary by either side
Round 2: fight to the death. Neither side is backing off at any time and they are both impossible to lug.

[s]

I personally think the 2rd option is the most likely

[Hardcastle]

I think 1 good bull arab will clear. I don't feel compelled to even entertain the 4 concept.
Banteng are lesser small bovines. 4 bad bull arabs could lose I guess, but a "hold anything" bull arab, which ideally they all SHOULD be (but may not be the reality), will sap a banteng down to nothing and kill it if it has to.
Bull arabs have single handledly subjugated asiatic water buffalo

There's actually a pretty big gap between banteng and buffalo.

The killing aspect will make it drawn out and messy, but the bull arab is well equipped to endure a drawn out gritty task with its exceptional stamina and toughness.

[s]

Oct 1, 2023 15:10:58 GMT Hardcastle said:

I think 1 good bull arab will clear. I don't feel compelled to even entertain the 4 concept.
Banteng are lesser small bovines. 4 bad bull arabs could lose I guess, but a "hold anything" bull arab, which ideally they all SHOULD be (but may not be the reality), will sap a banteng down to nothing and kill it if it has to.
Bull arabs have single handledly subjugated asiatic water buffalo

There's actually a pretty big gap between banteng and buffalo.

The killing aspect will make it drawn out and messy, but the bull arab is well equipped to endure a drawn out gritty task with its exceptional stamina and toughness.

Are you sure that Buffalo wasn't shot by the Hunter? It's pretty common for them to make a photo in front of their trophy with people/dogs/whatever involved, even if it didn't play a major role.

[Hardcastle]

The photo came with a hunting story, they were hunting boars but the dog surprised them and lugged a buffalo, which made the hunter shit his pants but then regather himself and kill it. This is not a one off either, bull arabs have a long history of lugging buffalos, scrub bulls and brumbies and etc, as well as boars. In the last 30 years it has been mostly boars, but before that they targetted more diverse big game.

[s]

Oct 1, 2023 15:52:53 GMT Hardcastle said:

The photo came with a hunting story, they were hunting boars but the dog surprised them and lugged a buffalo, which made the hunter shit his pants but then regather himself and kill it. This is not a one off either, bull arabs have a long history of lugging buffalos, scrub bulls and brumbies and etc, as well as boars. In the last 30 years it has been mostly boars, but before that they targetted more diverse big game.

There are no Boars in Australia, Wild Hogs are quite different, they are mixed with domestic Pigs and are a tier below actual Boars in strenght.

[s]

I think you use the word "subjugate" far too oftenly, simply engaging is not subjugating. What i think happened is the Bull Arab distracted the Buffalo a bit, ran around it's legs, latched to it's lower body, ect so the Hunter could get a good shot.

[Bolushi]

Oct 1, 2023 15:57:14 GMT s said:

Oct 1, 2023 15:52:53 GMT Hardcastle said:

The photo came with a hunting story, they were hunting boars but the dog surprised them and lugged a buffalo, which made the hunter shit his pants but then regather himself and kill it. This is not a one off either, bull arabs have a long history of lugging buffalos, scrub bulls and brumbies and etc, as well as boars. In the last 30 years it has been mostly boars, but before that they targetted more diverse big game.

There are no Boars in Australia, Wild Hogs are quite different, they are mixed with domestic Pigs and are a tier below actual Boars in strenght.

[Hardcastle]

People who have hunted both don't agree with you. I'm gonna go with them, thanks though.

International hunters I have spoken to personally say feral pigs in Australia are like Indian boars and african bushpigs and meaner and more dangerous than wild boars in europe on average.

[Hardcastle]

Oct 1, 2023 16:02:06 GMT s said:

I think you use the word "subjugate" far too oftenly, simply engaging is not subjugating. What i think happened is the Bull Arab distracted the Buffalo a bit, ran around it's legs, latched to it's lower body, ect so the Hunter could get a good shot.

Not shot. Stabbed. Subjugated means safe for a human to approach and handle the quarry. If the dog hasn't subjugated the quarry it is still free to attack and kill any human who comes too close. So a boar or buffalo "bayed" by a catahoula or plotthound or whatever is not subjugated, a human can't just walk up to the animal, they will be killed. Such dogs are used with a rifle. Bull arabs are used with a knife.
Bull arabs simply don't behave in the way you describe, they go straight for the head and hang. For better or worse.

[Hardcastle]

Oct 1, 2023 15:57:14 GMT s said:

Oct 1, 2023 15:52:53 GMT Hardcastle said:

The photo came with a hunting story, they were hunting boars but the dog surprised them and lugged a buffalo, which made the hunter shit his pants but then regather himself and kill it. This is not a one off either, bull arabs have a long history of lugging buffalos, scrub bulls and brumbies and etc, as well as boars. In the last 30 years it has been mostly boars, but before that they targetted more diverse big game.

There are no Boars in Australia, Wild Hogs are quite different, they are mixed with domestic Pigs and are a tier below actual Boars in strenght.

Some aussie pigs which are supposedly lesser (just a quick glimpse at my pics)-








Now if you wanted to say ussuri boars and manchurian boars and carpathian boars and central/eastern european are bigger, yes, that is true.
Aussie pigs are in the category of boars that max out around 150 kgs and usually mature males are closer to 100 kgs. That is similar to many wild boar populations. Smaller than a few, bigger than many, similar to most. That is just on size. They are also reportedly nastier than most.

Some are much larger, many are much smaller- Malaysian, Indonesian, Sumatran, Taiwanese, Northern Mongolian, Japanese, Mediterranean, Italian, Anatolian, Pakistan, North african ... all smaller than Australian pigs on Average. Central/eastern european, Ussuri, Manchurian, Carpathian, Central asian are bigger, but not necessarily nastier. Australian boars have a similar size to Indian boars, Indian boars are considered one of the absolute nastiest boars, among international hunters aussie pigs have a similar reputation.

Adult size and weight is largely determined by environmental factors; boars living in arid areas with little productivity tend to attain smaller sizes than their counterparts inhabiting areas with abundant food and water. In most of Europe, males average 75–100 kg (165–220 lb) in weight, 75–80 cm (30–31 in) in shoulder height and 150 cm (59 in) in body length, whereas females average 60–80 kg (130–180 lb) in weight, 70 cm (28 in) in shoulder height and 140 cm (55 in) in body length. In Europe's Mediterranean regions, males may reach average weights as low as 50 kg (110 lb) and females 45 kg (99 lb), with shoulder heights of 63–65 cm (25–26 in). In the more productive areas of Eastern Europe, males average 110–130 kg (240–290 lb) in weight, 95 cm (37 in) in shoulder height and 160 cm (63 in) in body length, while females weigh 95 kg (209 lb), reach 85–90 cm (33–35 in) in shoulder height, and reach 145 cm (57 in) in body length. In Western and Central Europe, the largest males weigh 200 kg (440 lb) and females 120 kg (260 lb). In Northeastern Asia, large males can reach brown bear-like sizes, weighing 270 kg (600 lb) and measuring 110–118 cm (43–46 in) in shoulder height. Some adult males in Ussuriland and Manchuria have been recorded to weigh 300–350 kg (660–770 lb) and measure 125 cm (49 in) in shoulder height. Adults of this size are generally immune from wolf predation.[56] Such giants are rare in modern times, due to past overhunting preventing animals from attaining their full growth.[4]

Overall, aussie pigs are mediocre in size, but bigger than the smaller populations. In reputation for nastiness they are quite high.

Maybe too high.
I can tell you that Aussie pigs in general may be slightly overrated due to the fact that Top end boars and mountain boars are very nasty but crop country boars can frankly be pretty mediocre and easy. Most tourist hunters will deal with top end boars, that is boars that live in the far north with sw crocs and buffaloes and etc and they are extremely nasty like Indian boars-


Frankly where I am from, they aren't that dangerous. It varies around the continent, just as it varies around eurasia. Many "pure wild boars" in europe and asia aren't shit, totally easy money. But some are nasty as hell.

I think the best of the best, the most formidable, are Ussuri Boars, Carpathian boars, Indian Boars, Top end Australian Boars, Eastern European boars. That is the general consensus and testimony of international hunters.

The idea that feral boars are easy and genuine wild boars are deadly is false, it is well known that feral populations quickly mutate back into wild boars for all intents and purposes, and also some genuine wild boars are nothing.

[ophio]

Oct 1, 2023 16:41:31 GMT Hardcastle said:

Oct 1, 2023 15:57:14 GMT s said:

There are no Boars in Australia, Wild Hogs are quite different, they are mixed with domestic Pigs and are a tier below actual Boars in strenght.

Some aussie pigs which are supposedly lesser (just a quick glimpse at my pics)-








Now if you wanted to say ussuri boars and manchurian boars and carpathian boars and central/eastern european are bigger, yes, that is true.
Aussie pigs are in the category of boars that max out around 150 kgs and usually mature males are closer to 100 kgs. That is similar to many wild boar populations. Smaller than a few, bigger than many, similar to most. That is just on size. They are also reportedly nastier than most.

Some are much larger, many are much smaller- Malaysian, Indonesian, Sumatran, Taiwanese, Northern Mongolian, Japanese, Mediterranean, Italian, Anatolian, Pakistan, North african ... all smaller than Australian pigs on Average. Central/eastern european, Ussuri, Manchurian, Carpathian, Central asian are bigger, but not necessarily nastier. Australian boars have a similar size to Indian boars, Indian boars are considered one of the absolute nastiest boars, among international hunters aussie pigs have a similar reputation.

Adult size and weight is largely determined by environmental factors; boars living in arid areas with little productivity tend to attain smaller sizes than their counterparts inhabiting areas with abundant food and water. In most of Europe, males average 75–100 kg (165–220 lb) in weight, 75–80 cm (30–31 in) in shoulder height and 150 cm (59 in) in body length, whereas females average 60–80 kg (130–180 lb) in weight, 70 cm (28 in) in shoulder height and 140 cm (55 in) in body length. In Europe's Mediterranean regions, males may reach average weights as low as 50 kg (110 lb) and females 45 kg (99 lb), with shoulder heights of 63–65 cm (25–26 in). In the more productive areas of Eastern Europe, males average 110–130 kg (240–290 lb) in weight, 95 cm (37 in) in shoulder height and 160 cm (63 in) in body length, while females weigh 95 kg (209 lb), reach 85–90 cm (33–35 in) in shoulder height, and reach 145 cm (57 in) in body length. In Western and Central Europe, the largest males weigh 200 kg (440 lb) and females 120 kg (260 lb). In Northeastern Asia, large males can reach brown bear-like sizes, weighing 270 kg (600 lb) and measuring 110–118 cm (43–46 in) in shoulder height. Some adult males in Ussuriland and Manchuria have been recorded to weigh 300–350 kg (660–770 lb) and measure 125 cm (49 in) in shoulder height. Adults of this size are generally immune from wolf predation.[56] Such giants are rare in modern times, due to past overhunting preventing animals from attaining their full growth.[4]

Overall, aussie pigs are mediocre in size, but bigger than the smaller populations. In reputation for nastiness they are quite high.

Maybe too high.
I can tell you that Aussie pigs in general may be slightly overrated due to the fact that Top end boars and mountain boars are very nasty but crop country boars can frankly be pretty mediocre and easy. Most tourist hunters will deal with top end boars, that is boars that live in the far north with sw crocs and buffaloes and etc and they are extremely nasty like Indian boars-


Frankly where I am from, they aren't that dangerous. It varies around the continent, just as it varies around eurasia. Many "pure wild boars" in europe and asia aren't shit, totally easy money. But some are nasty as hell.

I think the best of the best, the most formidable, are Ussuri Boars, Carpathian boars, Indian Boars, Top end Australian Boars, Eastern European boars. That is the general consensus and testimony of international hunters.

The idea that feral boars are easy and genuine wild boars are deadly is false, it is well known that feral populations quickly mutate back into wild boars for all intents and purposes, and also some genuine wild boars are nothing.

I'd argue boars in California and the southeastern us are just as formidable because a lot of their ancestors are Russian stock

[Bolushi]

Oct 1, 2023 16:46:27 GMT ophio said:

Oct 1, 2023 16:41:31 GMT Hardcastle said:

Some aussie pigs which are supposedly lesser (just a quick glimpse at my pics)-








Now if you wanted to say ussuri boars and manchurian boars and carpathian boars and central/eastern european are bigger, yes, that is true.
Aussie pigs are in the category of boars that max out around 150 kgs and usually mature males are closer to 100 kgs. That is similar to many wild boar populations. Smaller than a few, bigger than many, similar to most. That is just on size. They are also reportedly nastier than most.

Some are much larger, many are much smaller- Malaysian, Indonesian, Sumatran, Taiwanese, Northern Mongolian, Japanese, Mediterranean, Italian, Anatolian, Pakistan, North african ... all smaller than Australian pigs on Average. Central/eastern european, Ussuri, Manchurian, Carpathian, Central asian are bigger, but not necessarily nastier. Australian boars have a similar size to Indian boars, Indian boars are considered one of the absolute nastiest boars, among international hunters aussie pigs have a similar reputation.

Overall, aussie pigs are mediocre in size, but bigger than the smaller populations. In reputation for nastiness they are quite high.

Maybe too high.
I can tell you that Aussie pigs in general may be slightly overrated due to the fact that Top end boars and mountain boars are very nasty but crop country boars can frankly be pretty mediocre and easy. Most tourist hunters will deal with top end boars, that is boars that live in the far north with sw crocs and buffaloes and etc and they are extremely nasty like Indian boars-


Frankly where I am from, they aren't that dangerous. It varies around the continent, just as it varies around eurasia. Many "pure wild boars" in europe and asia aren't shit, totally easy money. But some are nasty as hell.

I think the best of the best, the most formidable, are Ussuri Boars, Carpathian boars, Indian Boars, Top end Australian Boars, Eastern European boars. That is the general consensus and testimony of international hunters.

The idea that feral boars are easy and genuine wild boars are deadly is false, it is well known that feral populations quickly mutate back into wild boars for all intents and purposes, and also some genuine wild boars are nothing.

I'd argue boars in California and the southeastern us are just as formidable because a lot of their ancestors are Russian stock

I agree with the claim, but not the reasoning behind it. Boars here are pretty rugged -

[s]

Oct 1, 2023 16:07:10 GMT Hardcastle said:

Oct 1, 2023 16:02:06 GMT s said:

I think you use the word "subjugate" far too oftenly, simply engaging is not subjugating. What i think happened is the Bull Arab distracted the Buffalo a bit, ran around it's legs, latched to it's lower body, ect so the Hunter could get a good shot.

Not shot. Stabbed. Subjugated means safe for a human to approach and handle the quarry. If the dog hasn't subjugated the quarry it is still free to attack and kill any human who comes too close. So a boar or buffalo "bayed" by a catahoula or plotthound or whatever is not subjugated, a human can't just walk up to the animal, they will be killed. Such dogs are used with a rifle. Bull arabs are used with a knife.
Bull arabs simply don't behave in the way you describe, they go straight for the head and hang. For better or worse.

That Buffalo didn't seem to have any sort of bite injury on the head.

[s]

Oct 1, 2023 16:41:31 GMT Hardcastle said:

Oct 1, 2023 15:57:14 GMT s said:

There are no Boars in Australia, Wild Hogs are quite different, they are mixed with domestic Pigs and are a tier below actual Boars in strenght.

Some aussie pigs which are supposedly lesser (just a quick glimpse at my pics)-








Now if you wanted to say ussuri boars and manchurian boars and carpathian boars and central/eastern european are bigger, yes, that is true.
Aussie pigs are in the category of boars that max out around 150 kgs and usually mature males are closer to 100 kgs. That is similar to many wild boar populations. Smaller than a few, bigger than many, similar to most. That is just on size. They are also reportedly nastier than most.

Some are much larger, many are much smaller- Malaysian, Indonesian, Sumatran, Taiwanese, Northern Mongolian, Japanese, Mediterranean, Italian, Anatolian, Pakistan, North african ... all smaller than Australian pigs on Average. Central/eastern european, Ussuri, Manchurian, Carpathian, Central asian are bigger, but not necessarily nastier. Australian boars have a similar size to Indian boars, Indian boars are considered one of the absolute nastiest boars, among international hunters aussie pigs have a similar reputation.

Adult size and weight is largely determined by environmental factors; boars living in arid areas with little productivity tend to attain smaller sizes than their counterparts inhabiting areas with abundant food and water. In most of Europe, males average 75–100 kg (165–220 lb) in weight, 75–80 cm (30–31 in) in shoulder height and 150 cm (59 in) in body length, whereas females average 60–80 kg (130–180 lb) in weight, 70 cm (28 in) in shoulder height and 140 cm (55 in) in body length. In Europe's Mediterranean regions, males may reach average weights as low as 50 kg (110 lb) and females 45 kg (99 lb), with shoulder heights of 63–65 cm (25–26 in). In the more productive areas of Eastern Europe, males average 110–130 kg (240–290 lb) in weight, 95 cm (37 in) in shoulder height and 160 cm (63 in) in body length, while females weigh 95 kg (209 lb), reach 85–90 cm (33–35 in) in shoulder height, and reach 145 cm (57 in) in body length. In Western and Central Europe, the largest males weigh 200 kg (440 lb) and females 120 kg (260 lb). In Northeastern Asia, large males can reach brown bear-like sizes, weighing 270 kg (600 lb) and measuring 110–118 cm (43–46 in) in shoulder height. Some adult males in Ussuriland and Manchuria have been recorded to weigh 300–350 kg (660–770 lb) and measure 125 cm (49 in) in shoulder height. Adults of this size are generally immune from wolf predation.[56] Such giants are rare in modern times, due to past overhunting preventing animals from attaining their full growth.[4]

Overall, aussie pigs are mediocre in size, but bigger than the smaller populations. In reputation for nastiness they are quite high.

Maybe too high.
I can tell you that Aussie pigs in general may be slightly overrated due to the fact that Top end boars and mountain boars are very nasty but crop country boars can frankly be pretty mediocre and easy. Most tourist hunters will deal with top end boars, that is boars that live in the far north with sw crocs and buffaloes and etc and they are extremely nasty like Indian boars-


Frankly where I am from, they aren't that dangerous. It varies around the continent, just as it varies around eurasia. Many "pure wild boars" in europe and asia aren't shit, totally easy money. But some are nasty as hell.

I think the best of the best, the most formidable, are Ussuri Boars, Carpathian boars, Indian Boars, Top end Australian Boars, Eastern European boars. That is the general consensus and testimony of international hunters.

The idea that feral boars are easy and genuine wild boars are deadly is false, it is well known that feral populations quickly mutate back into wild boars for all intents and purposes, and also some genuine wild boars are nothing.

Exceptional individuals aside, feral Pigs (i refuse to call them true Boars) are mutts, and average Vs average significantly inferior to true Boars. Less muscular, and less impressive overall. They do get better after a bit after breeding with actual Boars., but the first and second generations are meh.