Centipede vs Scorpion vs Tarantula

[ophio]

What are your thoughts on combat between the giant centipede (Scolopendra Gigantea/Galapagoensis), Giant Birdeater Tarantula (Theraphosa Blondi, Apophysis, Stirmi and Lasiodora Parahybana) and the giant scorpions  (Pandinus Imperator/Dictator and Heterometrus Swammerdami)? 
I'll post my thoughts below 

[Deleted]

I thini centipedes are leagues above.

[Bolushi]

I've never been too fond of tarantulas in these kind of fights, when they kill they do it with great precision and accuracy but if they have to fight they disappoint. Kind of like a cat.

Centipedes are a very weird thing. They just win... a lot. Even if they want to escape, they keep poking and prodding and even if their target has armor they can find a way. They shouldn't win as much as they do but I might take them out of the 3.

Scorpions are really, really dumb and put zero thought into anything they do like a jellyfish. They have poor eyesight and overall aren't great fighters but have a deadly combination of attributes that make them absurdly strong when you get to the giant armored ones. And even the small not durable scorpions, they can hold off larger tarantulas with their claws and then hit the tarantula with their tail and poison the big spider. Tarantulas are not durable and seem very susceptible to venom.

So the toughest to pick from would be big armored scorpions and giant centipedes, I'd say 50/50? I need to watch them fight I guess. I used to all the time but should catch up.

[ophio]

Imo, when we take the three strongest individuals Heterometrus Swammerdami, Scolopendra cf Gigantea, and Theraphosa Stirmi, I'd say that the scorpion loses due to size alone. The max for a heterometrus swammerdami is probably a bit over 15 cm from mouth to tail while a the centipede is 30 cm for the entire body. As you can see the the scorpion is severely outsized and outgunned if we take the largest specimens of all three species.  
Now lets consider a parity fight. 
My next posts will cover Centipede vs Scorpion
Centipede Vs Tarantula
and finally Tarantula vs Scorpion

[ophio]

Centipede vs Scorpion

Frankly I view the scorpion as the best out of the three at parity. The better species at fighting including Hadrurus, Heterometrus, Androctonus, and Parabuthus have solid pinchers to control the opposition and an instant kill mechanism after they get control.
Centipedes can sometimes win via counter attack or ambush but they usually need a size advantage. The larger scorpions like Heterometrus and Pandinus can sometimes instantly kill centipedes just by pinching the head which is what happens in a face to face battle as the larger centipedes get, the slower they get. However, centipedes do have an initial burst of speed which they can use to get a good grip on the scorpion, if that fails though, the scorpion has a good chance of controlling the head.
Here is a good example of a centipede winning. It did have a decent size advantage.
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1A94y1t75w/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.1
Good case of a scorpion controlling the centipede's head
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1M8411778m/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1da411P7PD/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.-1
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qW4y1J7jM/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

Mutual kill, centipede did have a size advantage and bit the claw but the scorpion was able to get a sting in
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1nX4y1M7aM/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.5

Centipede does win here
tieba.baidu.com/p/7992853766?pid=145276679380&cid=145277086737#145277086737

At equal sizes I think that most likely the centipede would be dead but the centipede does have a good chance to make it a mutual kill.
60 scorpion win 20 centipede win 20 mutual kill imo

[ophio]

Centipede vs Tarantula

The thing about tarantulas in caged up fights is that they don't do really well away from their home turf, almost like they don't want to fight. Especially since a lot of these fights also use males instead of females. Hence a lot of tarantulas lack of feats in the japanese bug fights such as the king baboon have made the tarantula look bad but the large south american tarantulas are actually pretty good fighters if they are comfortable.
One of the most impressive tarantulas are the Acanthoscurria genus but Theraphosa and Lasiodora are not far behind.

In the open, the tarantula basically stands little chance, even the acanthoscurrias
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1LT4y1r7b9/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

However, the tarantula does have very good awareness so it is aware of the centipede before the centipede is aware of it giving it a good chance to win
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1yB4y1m7oz/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1eZ4y1T7SG/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1cM411t7cP/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.-1


Probably how giant centipede vs Giant tarantula would go in the tarantula's home turf
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1A94y1r7DW/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1jt4y1A7Q4/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.6
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Th411j7Fk/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

Here a lasiodora stalemates a much larger scolopendra gigantea
tieba.baidu.com/p/6999094597?pn=1
Scolopendra gigantea seem to be much slower than the asian pedes
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1iQ4y1z7xS/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

I think if comfortable, the tarantula would take out the centipede nearly 10/10
however, in open ground, the centipede would win nearly 10/10

[ophio]

Scorpion vs Tarantula

As with centipede vs tarantula, the scorpion matches up very well face to face but the tarantula has better awareness so if it can strike first, it will win.

Even at max size, out in the open, the scorpion should have an advantage as the tarantula will try to avoid a confrontation
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1JB4y1F72d/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

However, if cornered, the tarantula can use its legs to dodge the stinger if it is large enough
tieba.baidu.com/p/6838586392?pid=133665842800&cid=0#133665842800


I don't think tarantula can win at the same size even in an ambush

[ophio]

The three poisonous arthropods vs stag beetles

Some people say that the strongest "bugs" aren't the centipedes, scorpions, or tarantulas but rather the stag beetles of genus Dorcus and the rhinocerous beetles of genus Dynastes. I would agree. That being said, tarantulas and scorpions at max size do pretty well against these beetles. Centipedes do not have the attack needed to break the armor.

Honestly in a natural environment, I would not be surprised at all if a giant female theraphosa or lasiodora can take down a beetle through ambush. The beetles are too slow to actually hurt the tarantulas and the tarantulas are aware of the beetle before the beetle sees what happens.
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1oU4y1A7fL/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

In a face to face fight though, the tarantula would try to avoid the confrontation. Here a theraphosa avoids a huge male dorcus stag
www.bilibili.com/video/BV16B4y1S7D9/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.-1

Against rhinoceros beetles, the tarantula has a better chance as the rhino beetle has thinner armor and weapons that are more for controlling other beetles than a fast tarantula with giant fangs.
Here a lasiodora beats a large rhinoceros beetle face to face.
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1tv411P7Dc/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.0

Overall in face to face a tarantula will not face a stag beetle, but can probably beat a rhinocerous beetle more than half the times but in ambush I wouldn't be surprised if the tarantula takes out either.

[ophio]

Scorpions do pretty well against stag beetles.
I still maintain that in a face to face the scorpion would also wisely retreat but stag beetles are rather immobile so it is possible that a crushing scorpion can crush the weak parts of the elytra if it approches from behind the stag beetle.
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1gu411j7GH/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

This is what would happen in the wild if there was a determined scorpion but in small captive enclosures there are cases of stag beetles cornering scorpions and crushing them.

The centipede even with a huge size advantage cannot do anything to a stag beetle

www.bilibili.com/video/BV1m4411G7j9/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.0

[ophio]

In summary

speed
Tarantula > Centipede > Scorpion

awareness
Tarantula > Centipede = Scorpion

armor
scorpion > centipede > tarantula

armor breaking
tarantula > scorpion > centipede

control
scorpion > centipede > tarantula

[Bolushi]

Ophio, not so on topic but would you take any of these 3 over a warrior beetle (Pasimachus sp.) close-ish to them in size?

[ophio]

Sept 10, 2023 19:00:44 GMT Bolushi said:

Ophio, not so on topic but would you take any of these 3 over a warrior beetle (Pasimachus sp.) close-ish to them in size?

At parity probably not, the warrior beetle is very well armored so the scorpion will have difficulty getting the sting in before getting torn up, the centipede cannot break the armor, and the tarantula would probably run away. 
However, some of the larger fanged tarantulas could win via ambush or in their home turf as the pasimachus is pretty slow. I'd need to dig it up, but there were some old clips on youtube of an acanthoscurria spiderling taking down a slightly smaller pasimachus in its home turf. 
But yea I'd say that the scaritiinae carabids like pasimachus, scarites etc are definetely the best fighters in their size class although they probably have some bad matchups that can take advantage of their slowness

[ophio]

Sept 10, 2023 19:00:44 GMT Bolushi said:

Ophio, not so on topic but would you take any of these 3 over a warrior beetle (Pasimachus sp.) close-ish to them in size?

The only animal I can see beating a pasimachus at the same size more often than not aside from a junevile tarantula is the platymeris assassin bug 

www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ch411i7sp/?spm_id_from=333.788.recommend_more_video.0

still this is a fight that can go both ways but a larger enclosure would benefit the faster assassin bug. 

[Hardcastle]

I won't claim to be an expert, and I'm sensing you've put more thought into this than me, but I have always placed centipedes above both scorpions and tarantulas.

I feel like you're presenting a pretty good case for scorpion superiority, but I'm really struggling with moving on tarantula. I think tarantulas are extremely fragile, slow and practically worthless. I think a centipede steamrolls a tarantula, might not even matter if it is smaller.

[ophio]

Sept 11, 2023 9:29:11 GMT Hardcastle said:

I won't claim to be an expert, and I'm sensing you've put more thought into this than me, but I have always placed centipedes above both scorpions and tarantulas.

I feel like you're presenting a pretty good case for scorpion superiority, but I'm really struggling with moving on tarantula. I think tarantulas are extremely fragile, slow and practically worthless. I think a centipede steamrolls a tarantula, might not even matter if it is smaller.

That might be becaus you are primarily acquainted with the old world tarantulas which aren't very good fighters compared to the new world tarantulas.

That being said tarantulas are fragile but they can be faster than the larger centipedes. In addition if they are in a place where they are comfortable they will have better awareness so they'd hit the centipede before the centipede can even prepare for what is coming. The new world tarantulas can kinda control the centipedes head with their legs.