Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 15:55:59 GMT
First of all, there are plenty of accounts of elephants killing lions/tigers. Second of all, even if there wasn't, we dont need them to understand that a 14.000 lb animal can kill all other animals.
Now, you claim that a 180 lb animal can kill a 1850 lb animal, even though no accounts. Sorry if i doubt it "a little".
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:01:24 GMT
You are talking about a predator living within the same environment of the bison. Bison are thoroughly studied by biologists; as are cougars. They know what predators hunt and kill bison. The cougar is not on that list. This is not an attack on the cougar. Cougar, puma, mountain lion; he is a beautiful cat worthy of praise and admiration. But, as with all animals, he has his limitations. Even the Yellowstone grizzly avoids the bull bison. Great! Still no account of an elephant killing an oryx, wildebeest, impala and topi! Just as I expected. Come talk to me when you can show me accounts. I only deal with accounts. Oh, I guess elephants are the ones that aren't thoroughly studied. Otherwise, biologists WOULD HAVE found accounts of elephants killing impala, topi, oryxes, and wildebeests ALL AT ONCE. They know what an elephant is capable of, what animals it can kill and which ones it cannot. Topi, impala, oryx, and wilderness are NOT on that list when they fight together. All 4 animals plus the elephant, if they are well studied by biologists, would have at least ONE interaction on record. "Elephants are not carnivores" is not an excuse. It is self-sabotaging. Wow! Guess the biologists aren't researching hard enough. I wish them (and by extension, YOU) good luck. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:04:07 GMT
First of all, there are plenty of accounts of elephants killing lions/tigers. Second of all, even if there wasn't, we dont need them to understand that a 14.000 lb animal can kill all other animals.
Now, you claim that a 180 lb animal can kill a 1850 lb animal, even though no accounts. Sorry if i doubt it "a little". Why all the babbling? Still haven't got any accounts? I guess this is going nowhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 16:06:19 GMT
I see we will get nowhere. Why do you compare an elephant to a puma though? That analogy is ridiculous. A fucking elephant stomps any animal in the world. An elephant is around 14.000 + lbs! With huge tusks! A puma is 180 lbs. For one animal, we dont need to have accounts, for the other, we obviously do. If you tell me a puma can kill a cheetah, even though no accounts, well yeah sure, i would believe you.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:06:36 GMT
Honestly, it's much fun when I come down to you guys' level and start arguing childishly and saying stupid things, by trolling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 16:09:47 GMT
Honestly, it's much fun when I come down to you guys' level and start arguing childishly and saying stupid things, by trolling.
We will get nowhere. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:12:14 GMT
I see we will get nowhere. Why do you compare an elephant to a puma though? That analogy is ridiculous. A fucking elephant stomps any animal in the world. An elephant is around 14.000 + lbs! A puma is 180 lbs. For one animal, we dont need to have accounts, for the other, we obviously do. If you tell me a puma can kill a cheetah, even though no accounts, well yeah sure, i would believe you. " A fucking elephant stomps ANY animal in the world"? " ANY"? Nah, I should think not. What happened to the American bison, the INVINCIBLE "HISTORIC ANIMAL"? I genuinely think he would be a good contender. No 🧢. I honestly think you're beginning to undermine his ability. One ram from the skull, and the elephant will wake up in another dimension! DAILY REMINDER: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE LARGEST AND STRONGEST BOVID IN THE WORLD!!! |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:15:27 GMT
Honestly, me acting like you guys by playing the fool seems really pleasurable and interesting.
I'm beginning to enjoy it more than the actual "Cougar vs Bison" topic. I'm actually considering calling it quits tbh. This sounds more fun.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 16:16:34 GMT
Shit, never thought of that, that is a possibility, hell yeah!
Just joking for the record. I know the bison's limitations.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 16:20:40 GMT
@bisonking
You are WRONG!
You kidding? Are you tripping? Let me know what you're drinking.
The HISTORIC ANIMAL has NO limitations! Don't you ever forget that!
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Aug 20, 2023 16:45:24 GMT
@bisonking You are WRONG! You kidding? Are you tripping? Let me know what you're drinking. The HISTORIC ANIMAL has NO limitations! Don't you ever forget that! Why do you act as if he's a hardcore bison fanboy ? 💀 stating that a puma cannot hunt bison ≠ stating that bison>elephant . He wouldn't even support bison over a rhino lol |
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Post by grampa on Aug 20, 2023 17:09:33 GMT
Quote; "...Then I tag all of you to each show me your own accounts of an elephant killing that EXACT quartet of animals..." Elephants are not carnivorous predators. By the way; "supercat" gives away your mindset.  |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Aug 20, 2023 17:12:02 GMT
On a serious note, everyone :
I have already called it quits with my debunking of Bison King’s posts. And while this doesn't mean I am throwing in the towel, or accepting defeat or being outreasoned by you guys, it does mean I know that my view or stance is not defined by what anybody thinks of it or whether anybody agrees with it.
I have said EVERYTHING I have to say on "Cougar vs Bison" in 3 different answers on Quora. So, I don’t owe anybody an explanation for why cougars are the ultimate bison-killing machine in the entirety of North America. The answers are there for you to read. It's your responsibility to read them and yours ALONE.
You cannot be asking me for an explanation on something that I have already given. I don’t answer to you, and I am NOT accountable to anyone on this forum. So, don’t think you can be making demands of me as if it is my sacred duty to find actual accounts of cougars legitimately killing bison before I can be accepted or believed.
Don't believe me. In fact, I beg you not to believe me. That's your business, not mine.
I have specified, and specified, and specified, and specified, and specified a thousand times over,
1) the circumstances under which I discuss "Cougar vs Bison",
2) What EXACTLY I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME I utter the words "Cougar can kill bison",
so much that if "specify" was a living thing, it would literally tell me "stop bro, that's enough."
I have given the most thorough explanations on:
1) Why I believe cougars can kill healthy adult bison
2) Why they do not prey on bison even though they both coexist (I even went so far as to use a REAL-LIFE case study of another big cat that NEVER preyed on another wild cattle species until the hindrance that forbade it from doing so was taken out of the way, and explained EXACTLY how that related to the situation with cougars and bison)
3) Why the "even grizzly bears and wolf packs don’t try it" proposition is null and void, again, using another REAL-LIFE case study involving another big cat and another bear, and another big cat and another canid species.
4) Why big cats are not proportionately stronger than cougars (save for possibly jaguars)
5) And how "Cougar vs Bison" is effectively a "bandwagon effect" in the path of EVERY OTHER big cat-wild cattle relationship that we see in other big cat-wild cattle ecosystems around the world.
And yet I'm being asked by some petty-minded dudes who DELIBERATELY and WILFULLY choose to take my words out of context and ignore all the specifications that I have laid down from the very beginning of my argument, "Show us, Show us, Show us!!!" like thirsty vampires begging for blood.
After barely over a year of being in the animal community, one lesson I have learnt painfully is that trying to forcefully convince anybody, trying to EXERT your will over theirs only leads to what is called "vexation of spirit", a state where you are dumbfounded and agonising within yourself, almost in a state of depression.
After all the experiences I have had, I know better than to continue this debate. Please everyone, you all have a will of your own, and you are free to believe whatever you will on "Cougar vs Bison", I am not going to put a noose around your neck for not aligning with my will. Please by all means possible, believe whatever you want.
I am NOT going to ever make mention of ANYTHING that pertains to any relationship between cougars and bison, or ANYTHING that talks about the 2 animals in the same sense, on this forum again (I will make one final post on Quora at the end of the year though, which will be my last on the "Cougar vs Bison" topic).
The path to finding true freedom in any debate (whether on animals or any sphere of influence) is abiding by the principle: "You can have your say, but you don't always have your way." And I know better than to stray from it.
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Post by grampa on Aug 20, 2023 17:18:12 GMT
Advise; stop saying "Cougar can kill bison" unless you specify bison calves. Yes, a cougar could in fact kill an unprotected bison calf.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 17:25:35 GMT
Awesome, am glad we are done then. In conclusion then:
#1) Your arguments are enough to convince you, but not anybody else, (that we know of at least).
#2) bison is superior to a puma in every way, shape, or form.
#3) no records of bison killed by pumas.
#4) the historic animal > puma.
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