Ranking dog breeds based on dogfighting

[pulpfiction]

I agree with pretty much everything you said and I also agree & would never say that the gb apbt can’t lose as I know they do.
Especially against the giant breeds we’re talking about.
I just believe they’ll win more often than not.

Totally agree on weight class that’s not even a discussion lb for lb I know there’s nothing touching a good bulldog.
But that’s never going to be the case in open breed open weight.
Because they have to bring a breed that’s 3-4 times the bulldogs size to have a chance.
Exactly because of the lb for lb dominance of the gb apbt.
I’d rather just use the name bulldog for gb apbt tbh but I don’t want any confusion.

Okay I don’t want seem like I’m bothering you over & over with basically the same question pitbull vs ….. lol.

But I got to know what your saying about the tosa dominating the grappling with the apbt?
You say the tosa will dominate that aspect of the fight & therefore win?
Or do you mean the tosa will dominate that one aspect of the fighting till he tires & the bulldog takes over the fight?

Just simplify it for me 10 apbt’s 10 tosa’s all the best in the land.
How many of the matches do the gb apbt’s win?

We can also talk about cajan rules if you like?

My opinion is that those rules specifically the scratch in turn aspect of cajan rules.
Create a much gamer combat dog then the joke that volkadav’s
& Alibai & the like fight under this also includes tosa’s I don’t really like those rules either.
To me there’s not enough put on the dogs. But the worst part is it’s not a scratch in turn contest.
Scratch in turn contests show very easily which dog does not want to fight any longer. They need to scratch those dogs every single match if they ever want game dogs.

I guarantee after an hour 99% of those big breeds wouldn’t scratch back but the bulldog.
But the gb apbt is going to about 80% of the time.

Sorry so long.
I tried that other site I might give it a shot but I don’t see much about bulldogs on there.
Hope all is well.
Thanks

[pulpfiction]

Another thing I don’t believe those Kangals being used in fighting ate pure bred kangals.
Kangals have a very distinct look & the ones being fought are not it.
I think maybe Boz shepherd or some sort of mix of the Turkish breeds.
What do you think?

Theirs a guy Phillip Brown goes by shogun imperial. He imports all that shit Volkodav Alibai Malakli tosa from Korean he also has bulldogs all though not tested.

Just thought you might find it interesting. Basically he’ll import
Most gladiator types.
I know of a few others as well.

Hope all is well.

[Hardcastle]

Yeah I think you can see the western mastiff/bull breeds in the fighting LGDs too, and notably the LGDs actually working as LGDs never look like the fighting ones.

What I meant by tosas dominating apbts I just mean in the grapple you can probably expect a tosa to take early control and have an apbt on its back for a while. Not always I'm sure, but I think you would be smart to bet on that being how things are likely to play out early in a fight. The combination of the Tosa's size, gummy loose durable skin (practically impervious to both damage and pain) and also the Tosa's loose flexible joints and heightened dexterity in the limbs, all combine to make it pretty likely to gain a top position. However deep stamina isn't a strong consideration in them (it is but only to a moderate limit) and neither really is damage output or finishing ability (which isn't to say it's terrible, but there's no special push for it to be outstanding as it isn't really a factor).
As such, there's a chance a tosa would finish an apbt in that initial dominant mauling, but you'd be much smarter to bet on the apbt probably surviving it and then grinding out a win through attrition. At the end of the day that is always the more likely outcome in any mixed breed canine vs canine fight where one of them is a gamebred apbt.

[pulpfiction]

So have you actually seen these professional open breed open weight matches?
If so how do they usually go?
How do they decide which dog goes against which?
What rules do they follow?
What percentage do the pitbulls win?
I’m very interested to hear about it as all the large fighting breed and gladiator type breed people I talk with say the apbt simply cannot win.

[Hardcastle]

Sorry for late response.

I've stumbled onto some of these fights, but don't really seek them out.


There are mixed results, and "professional" can only be used very loosely for this stuff. By definition any seriously "professional" fighting league is always going to revolve around weight classes, with small discrepancies agreed upon by both parties occasionally, which is what catch weight is for, but it is kind of well understood that matching weight is the first step towards organising a sporting dog fight.


When that is clearly completely thrown out the window, like 50 lbs apbt vs 200 lbs lgd, you know its not that legit, BUT on the other hand the dogs might be legit and the fight may have even been arranged specifically on the back of an argument where both are sure their dog will win anyway.

Generally you just have two parties who agree to fight their dogs with a certain amount of money on the line. That is what makes a dog fight.

I have no real idea beyond that what arrangement goes into these open-weight mixed breed fights that find their way onto sketchy russian websites, but I do know pitbulls still win a lot with huge weight disadvantages. Sometimes they lose, but seems to me they win more than they lose. The fight often starts with the larger dog winning at first. Not always, but I think once you start talking about somewhat serious large fighting LGDs as opposed to just random bullcrap, the big dog is gonna showcase the advantage of size for a while. Even in amateur bullcrap there are levels of amateurishness, and some take it kind of seriously and have carefully bred and culled and selected for big LGDs that actually do fight seriously (and likely can't even work as LGDs anymore). Those dogs start strong usually, but failing to capitalise on that early dominance is very common. When I first started seeing them I was ONLY recieving matches hand-picked by turkish guys who were arguing with me about LGD vs gripping dog, so they just showed cases where LGDs won and I was kind of worried at first, but once I had more exposure to these sites and videos I noticed that pitbulls definitely still mostly win. And even other gripping dogs often win against bigger LGDs as well. Dogos, presas, ambulls, etc. That said I have seen LGDs that actually follow through with their initial dominance and maintain it long enough to finish the gripping dog and win. It does happen. The results are all over the place but I think the more you see the more you notice a trend of gripping dog success. All the more so if you just exclude the SUPER amateurish crap where there's like german shepherd and pet labs and stuff, where it is really just complete nonsense. When you see conditioned fit looking "pro" looking" dogs you see all the more apbt wins.

[pulpfiction]

Thank you very much for your response.
That’s pretty much what I’ve seen also.

I often get into discussions with lgd guys
And they just won’t admit that the apbt can & does win against they’re breeds including the volkadav.
Even when I flat out tell them that I know the apbt does lose to these huge breeds I admit that they lose & even get killed at times.
But more often than not they still win.
That’s saying alot for the apbt’s fighting ability considering the size difference.

Most recently I had a discussion with a gentleman by the name of Cory of pride rock kennels.
He’s a Tosa breeder.
I was watching his YouTube channel.
And I just had to call the guy & explain that he’s being disingenuous about much of what he’s saying in his videos.

For example he claims that the tosa is the only breed bred for & created specifically for dogfighting.
He claims the apbt was not originally bred for that sole purpose.
And he didn’t budge on that during our phone conversation.

He also claims that the apbt can never defeat a Tosa in combat.
I couldn’t get him to budge on that either.
Again I openly admit that the tosa is a fine breed and great fighting dog. And that I agree they will win over apbt’s. But more often than not the pitbull wins.
So it was a pointless conversation.

I get this all the time lately it’s usually the lgd guys volkadovs & such also bully kutta fans.
And again I know they can & do bet pitbulls.
But the apbt’s win too usually more often.

I do enjoy talking about this stuff & really do appreciate all your replies.
Hope this message finds you well.
Doug.