Skulls

[Deleted]

Self-explanatory.

[Deleted]

Short-faced bear & Smilodon (jesus christ lol).

[Deleted]

Male wolf & female cougar.

[Deleted]

Smilodon & Dire wolf.

[Shortridge]

I came across these photos on some taxidermy forum of the cougar's skull that president Theodore Roosevelt himself shot:

[CoolJohnson]

Oct 8, 2023 20:53:32 GMT Shortridge said:

I came across these photos on some taxidermy forum of the cougar's skull that president Theodore Roosevelt himself shot:

Welcome to this forum!

[Bolushi]

Oct 8, 2023 20:53:32 GMT Shortridge said:

I came across these photos on some taxidermy forum of the cougar's skull that president Theodore Roosevelt himself shot:

Eyy Shortridge, welcome. 

[Hardcastle]

Oct 8, 2023 20:53:32 GMT Shortridge said:

I came across these photos on some taxidermy forum of the cougar's skull that president Theodore Roosevelt himself shot:

227 lbs? Pretty huge.

Is that big for a puma skull? Doesn't seem that big really, considering the alleged size of the cat, but don't know puma skull size that well. It is similar dimensions to a bullmastiff skull according to those websites where you can buy skulls. I wish the skull lady was still around, she had more info than you can actually find online these days.

[lincoln]

I know I’ve already posted this in another space but here’s a tiger and lion skull, wish there was a pic of their skeletons side by side

Attachments:

[lincoln]

Coyote skull

Attachments:

[Shortridge]

Oct 9, 2023 12:28:33 GMT Hardcastle said:

Oct 8, 2023 20:53:32 GMT Shortridge said:

I came across these photos on some taxidermy forum of the cougar's skull that president Theodore Roosevelt himself shot:

227 lbs? Pretty huge.

Is that big for a puma skull? Doesn't seem that big really, considering the alleged size of the cat, but don't know puma skull size that well. It is similar dimensions to a bullmastiff skull according to those websites where you can buy skulls. I wish the skull lady was still around, she had more info than you can actually find online these days.

At 15,69" it's one of the biggest in the world. For comparison the biggest leopard skulls will score around 19" whereas the biggest jaguars score 21". A 78kg male leopard scored little better (15,75") than this world record cougar:



The difference is the overlap in leopard and other big cat (i.e. big male jaguars, small lionesses and tigresses) skulls, something the cougar is unable to achieve due to their proportionally smaller head. 

Here you can see male leopard and male jaguar skulls of similar length:




MALE LEOPARDS

271 mm x 191 mm (18,19")
271 mm x 177 mm (17,64")
270 mm x 170 mm (17,32")

MALE JAGUARS

271 mm x 173 mm (17,48")
271,5 mm x 180 mm (17,78")
269 mm x 183 mm (17,80")

A remark is that these leopards are in the top biggest (excluding hunter records) whereas the jaguars are 'just' big males. Still it's fascinating to see that there are male leopards out there walking with such big skulls considering jaguars are for their big skull relative to their size.

[lincoln]

Wolf skull vs hyena skull

Attachments:

[Deleted]

Male jaguar skull vs Male cougar skull (possibly both specimens belong to the pantanal region) 

http://instagram.com/p/BU4mij1hwHt

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2023 18:52:19 GMT Shortridge said:

Oct 9, 2023 12:28:33 GMT Hardcastle said:

227 lbs? Pretty huge.

Is that big for a puma skull? Doesn't seem that big really, considering the alleged size of the cat, but don't know puma skull size that well. It is similar dimensions to a bullmastiff skull according to those websites where you can buy skulls. I wish the skull lady was still around, she had more info than you can actually find online these days.

At 15,69" it's one of the biggest in the world. For comparison the biggest leopard skulls will score around 19" whereas the biggest jaguars score 21". A 78kg male leopard scored little better (15,75") than this world record cougar:



The difference is the overlap in leopard and other big cat (i.e. big male jaguars, small lionesses and tigresses) skulls, something the cougar is unable to achieve due to their proportionally smaller head. 

Here you can see male leopard and male jaguar skulls of similar length:




MALE LEOPARDS

271 mm x 191 mm (18,19")
271 mm x 177 mm (17,64")
270 mm x 170 mm (17,32")

MALE JAGUARS

271 mm x 173 mm (17,48")
271,5 mm x 180 mm (17,78")
269 mm x 183 mm (17,80")

A remark is that these leopards are in the top biggest (excluding hunter records) whereas the jaguars are 'just' big males. Still it's fascinating to see that there are male leopards out there walking with such big skulls considering jaguars are for their big skull relative to their size.

those are not big jaguars. They are from the amazon region which currently holds specimens who weigh no more than 70kgs, i know that you are not trying to imply that leopards have proportionally larger skulls than jaguars, and more so trying to prove their overlap in size, but that's not a great example. Either way we have the massive Namibian leopard shot near a farm who weighed 108kgs (could be because of stomach content but honestly it didn't look gorged at all) which is about the average pantanal jaguar in size. 

[Shortridge]

Oct 12, 2023 21:57:18 GMT @firejaguar2022 said:

Oct 10, 2023 18:52:19 GMT Shortridge said:

At 15,69" it's one of the biggest in the world. For comparison the biggest leopard skulls will score around 19" whereas the biggest jaguars score 21". A 78kg male leopard scored little better (15,75") than this world record cougar:



The difference is the overlap in leopard and other big cat (i.e. big male jaguars, small lionesses and tigresses) skulls, something the cougar is unable to achieve due to their proportionally smaller head. 

Here you can see male leopard and male jaguar skulls of similar length:




MALE LEOPARDS

271 mm x 191 mm (18,19")
271 mm x 177 mm (17,64")
270 mm x 170 mm (17,32")

MALE JAGUARS

271 mm x 173 mm (17,48")
271,5 mm x 180 mm (17,78")
269 mm x 183 mm (17,80")

A remark is that these leopards are in the top biggest (excluding hunter records) whereas the jaguars are 'just' big males. Still it's fascinating to see that there are male leopards out there walking with such big skulls considering jaguars are for their big skull relative to their size.

those are not big jaguars. They are from the amazon region which currently holds specimens who weigh no more than 70kgs, i know that you are not trying to imply that leopards have proportionally larger skulls than jaguars, and more so trying to prove their overlap in size, but that's not a great example. Either way we have the massive Namibian leopard shot near a farm who weighed 108kgs (could be because of stomach content but honestly it didn't look gorged at all) which is about the average pantanal jaguar in size. 

Considering that the average skull length for a 100kg Pantanal male jaguar is 290 mm in length I wouldn't say they're small. After all these jaguars are the pinnacle of its species.

Also things get tricky in the Amazon or the Atlantic Forest since the populations are scattered. I know the population of Mamirauá is smallish with males weighing 50-70kg but Hoogesteijn's 1996 study gives us an 83kg average for males from a different part of the Amazon. That's why this whole thing about leopard-jaguar debates exist because there are so many variables. There are jaguar populations more arboreal than leopards due to them surviving floods despite leopards being called "built for climbing". If you look at Persian male leopards in northern Iran (Alborz, Mazandaran and Golestan province), you'll see they're built to live in colder environments and kill tough prey like wild boar or free ranging cattle. Such leopards would murder the tree living jaguars within seconds.