Alabai vs Javan Leopard

[Deleted]

Can you add photos please, Hardcastle ?



Vs

[Hardcastle]

Alternative Alabai-



Lol

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2023 19:56:10 GMT Hardcastle said:

Alternative Alabai-



Lol

The huge chain and shit too lol.

[Deleted]

Anyways, this is an interesting one. The Persian leopard and African leopard and the like are PROBABLY too big. So I chose a leopard that's a bit smaller.

[Bolushi]

110lb leopard vs 140-200lb dog... doesn't look very good for our leopard contender.

Taken from Udjung Kulon: The Land of the Last Javan Rhinoceros (1970) By A. Hoogerwerf

"From media reports there was news about two Javan leopard that had been caught in Girimukti. One leopard came from Ciangsana and was caught on 12 October 2013.

The sex of the leopard was male, and its age is approximately 7-8 years old with 50 kg body weight. This leopard was evacuated to Bogor Safari Park"
smujo.id/biodiv/article/view/682

Average weight for an Alabai is around 150lbs. The leopard is too small. It could win by ambush, that's about it. Any face to face confrontation, the Alabai is at little risk. Every paw swipe wouldn't move a hair on the Alabai's head. It may stop the Alabai's objective of killing it, in which case it's a draw, but the only animal at risk here is the leopard.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2023 20:25:54 GMT Bolushi said:

110lb leopard vs 140-200lb dog... doesn't look very good for our leopard contender.

Taken from Udjung Kulon: The Land of the Last Javan Rhinoceros (1970) By A. Hoogerwerf

"From media reports there was news about two Javan leopard that had been caught in Girimukti. One leopard came from Ciangsana and was caught on 12 October 2013.

The sex of the leopard was male, and its age is approximately 7-8 years old with 50 kg body weight. This leopard was evacuated to Bogor Safari Park"
smujo.id/biodiv/article/view/682

Average weight for an Alabai is around 150lbs. The leopard is too small. It could win by ambush, that's about it. Any face to face confrontation, the Alabai is at little risk. Every paw swipe wouldn't move a hair on the Alabai's head. It may stop the Alabai's objective of killing it, in which case it's a draw, but the only animal at risk here is the leopard.

There's just no larger leopard. Iirc it goes from Javan to Persian leopard. 50kg to up to 90kg. Like wtf.

[Bolushi]

Jul 8, 2023 20:32:03 GMT @ling said:

Jul 8, 2023 20:25:54 GMT Bolushi said:

110lb leopard vs 140-200lb dog... doesn't look very good for our leopard contender.

Taken from Udjung Kulon: The Land of the Last Javan Rhinoceros (1970) By A. Hoogerwerf

"From media reports there was news about two Javan leopard that had been caught in Girimukti. One leopard came from Ciangsana and was caught on 12 October 2013.

The sex of the leopard was male, and its age is approximately 7-8 years old with 50 kg body weight. This leopard was evacuated to Bogor Safari Park"
smujo.id/biodiv/article/view/682

Average weight for an Alabai is around 150lbs. The leopard is too small. It could win by ambush, that's about it. Any face to face confrontation, the Alabai is at little risk. Every paw swipe wouldn't move a hair on the Alabai's head. It may stop the Alabai's objective of killing it, in which case it's a draw, but the only animal at risk here is the leopard.

There's just no larger leopard. Iirc it goes from Javan to Persian leopard. 50kg to up to 90kg. Like wtf.

African leopards average 130lbs for males. Sounds like a better matchup, might already exist though.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2023 20:37:45 GMT Bolushi said:

Jul 8, 2023 20:32:03 GMT @ling said:

There's just no larger leopard. Iirc it goes from Javan to Persian leopard. 50kg to up to 90kg. Like wtf.

African leopards average 130lbs for males. Sounds like a better matchup, might already exist though.

I was going to say African leopard, but Hardcastle thinks it may be a stretch.

[Bolushi]

Jul 8, 2023 19:56:10 GMT Hardcastle said:

Alternative Alabai-



Lol

Is that the 250-300lb fat fuck of an Alabai that was on dogumentary TV that didn't even want to eat?

[Bolushi]

Jul 8, 2023 20:51:23 GMT @ling said:

Jul 8, 2023 20:37:45 GMT Bolushi said:

African leopards average 130lbs for males. Sounds like a better matchup, might already exist though.

I was going to say African leopard, but Hardcastle thinks it may be a stretch.

Me too, TBH. If we specified a fighting Alabai that would change though. 

[grippingwhiteness]

Except a 200 lb alabai would probably lose even to an Eurasian lynx, with irony.

Let's be serious here, there's no such thing as a 200 lb functional working dog, it's a myth.

And any dog pushing that weight will either be an extreme fatass that can't walk or either a big goofy slow couch potato.

I'd recall seeing 190-200 lb alabais losing badly to 90 lb pet dogos in mail.ru. 165 lb would be the around maximum size for this animal to have both speed and raw power.
But generally they'd be 120-130 lbs.

Here's some good examples on real working alabais.

Btw we only have two recorded weights for javan leopards : 100 and 115 lbs. They're roughly Amur leopard sized. An amur leopard has been recorded to kill an alabai by the way. 

Attachments:

[grippingwhiteness]

Tbh I had already given my opinion on the fighting LGD community... Nothing much would change. I still laugh broadly when I hear "fighting -insert LGD breed name-".

A LGD is not bred to be a fighting breed for a reason.
It literally lies in the name : Livestock Guardian Dog.
That's the only good thing they are good at, guarding. They aren't built for fighting, their primitive adaptation isn't going to cope with the stamina of a game pitbull or that of a catch dog like for example a tosa or a dogo argentino, it's just an overkill.

One may try to change them by adding the blood of the same gripping dogs that wreck them in dog fights, like "if you can't beat him, become him in part" but I'll tell you that I'd bet any money that if a dogo argentino like Nato De Las Arrias or Tupac owned by Dogokorea fights against a 160-180 lb Volkodav like it would against a boar, the Volkodav would be dead meat .

The Volkodav will certainly fair better than an Alabai ( and a Caucasian Ovrachka, but not mentioning them since they are among the weakest and most overrated LGDs on the planet, rivaling the Tibetan Mastiff) , but against a dogo of that type that literally runs straight at your face, grabs your neck and never lets go it's literally game over. The dogo will never release that grip, not a single time. I've seen quite frequently that pet dogos from mail.ru randomly release the opponent to start bite the limbs or just randomly jumping over the dog by trying to "dominate" it like if it was humping it .
A hunting dogo will never do that assuming it will fight the dog like if it was a boar. It would secure a good grip on the dog's neck and never release until the latter tires out by struggling and finishes on the ground.


A fighting alabai would fair equally as bad, probably would die quicklier because of it's innatural overconfidence developed in arenas when the LGD nature sometimes applies more on intimidation , especially when fighting a predator that if it doesn't suffer from a size disadvantage (unlikely, average male cats are as heavy as the vast majority or even the largest working individuals of that breed, with the difference that they can reach 180-200+ lbs and still being functional as hell while the latter stops at 160-170 lbs) it will make a blue rare steak out of it.

Unless you give it the exploding collar ..that could change.

[Bolushi]

Jul 8, 2023 22:35:34 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Except a 200 lb alabai would probably lose even to an Eurasian lynx, with irony.

Let's be serious here, there's no such thing as a 200 lb functional working dog, it's a myth.

And any dog pushing that weight will either be an extreme fatass that can't walk or either a big goofy slow couch potato.

I'd recall seeing 190-200 lb alabais losing badly to 90 lb pet dogos in mail.ru. 165 lb would be the around maximum size for this animal to have both speed and raw power.
But generally they'd be 120-130 lbs.

Here's some good examples on real working alabais.

Btw we only have two recorded weights for javan leopards : 100 and 115 lbs. They're roughly Amur leopard sized. An amur leopard has been recorded to kill an alabai by the way. 

View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment

LGDs can be big, most LGDs are much bigger than this leopard. Big enough to win. An Anatolian Shepherd killed a leopard without a big weight advantage. Average weight for an Alabai is somewhere around 150lbs, 120-130lbs is common working weight but 150lbs is, too.
I said leopard could win by ambush, BTW.

[Bolushi]

Jul 8, 2023 22:45:23 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Tbh I had already given my opinion on the fighting LGD community... Nothing much would change. I still laugh broadly when I hear "fighting -insert LGD breed name-".

A LGD is not bred to be a fighting breed for a reason.
It literally lies in the name : Livestock Guardian Dog.
That's the only good thing they are good at, guarding. They aren't built for fighting, their primitive adaptation isn't going to cope with the stamina of a game pitbull or that of a catch dog like for example a tosa or a dogo argentino, it's just an overkill.

One may try to change them by adding the blood of the same gripping dogs that wreck them in dog fights, like "if you can't beat him, become him in part" but I'll tell you that I'd bet any money that if a dogo argentino like Nato De Las Arrias or Tupac owned by Dogokorea fights against a 160-180 lb Volkodav like it would against a boar, the Volkodav would be dead meat .

The Volkodav will certainly fair better than an Alabai ( and a Caucasian Ovrachka, but not mentioning them since they are among the weakest and most overrated LGDs on the planet, rivaling the Tibetan Mastiff) , but against a dogo of that type that literally runs straight at your face, grabs your neck and never lets go it's literally game over. The dogo will never release that grip, not a single time. I've seen quite frequently that pet dogos from mail.ru randomly release the opponent to start bite the limbs or just randomly jumping over the dog by trying to "dominate" it like if it was humping it .
A hunting dogo will never do that assuming it will fight the dog like if it was a boar. It would secure a good grip on the dog's neck and never release until the latter tires out by struggling and finishes on the ground.


A fighting alabai would fair equally as bad, probably would die quicklier because of it's innatural overconfidence developed in arenas when the LGD nature sometimes applies more on intimidation , especially when fighting a predator that if it doesn't suffer from a size disadvantage (unlikely, average male cats are as heavy as the vast majority or even the largest working individuals of that breed, with the difference that they can reach 180-200+ lbs and still being functional as hell while the latter stops at 160-170 lbs) it will make a blue rare steak out of it.

Unless you give it the exploding collar ..that could change.

A fighting LGD has predatory drives, and is more likely to commit to an attack, than a pure LGD. They have much more relevant experience to the contest. Size is pretty much their only playing card along with them being blooded to fight, but it works. A 100lb leopard is not built to survive such an onslaught.
A gripping dog is, so it will find the LGD's weaknesses pretty easily. A little leopard, probably not.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2023 22:45:23 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Tbh I had already given my opinion on the fighting LGD community... Nothing much would change. I still laugh broadly when I hear "fighting -insert LGD breed name-".

A LGD is not bred to be a fighting breed for a reason.
It literally lies in the name : Livestock Guardian Dog.
That's the only good thing they are good at, guarding. They aren't built for fighting, their primitive adaptation isn't going to cope with the stamina of a game pitbull or that of a catch dog like for example a tosa or a dogo argentino, it's just an overkill.

One may try to change them by adding the blood of the same gripping dogs that wreck them in dog fights, like "if you can't beat him, become him in part" but I'll tell you that I'd bet any money that if a dogo argentino like Nato De Las Arrias or Tupac owned by Dogokorea fights against a 160-180 lb Volkodav like it would against a boar, the Volkodav would be dead meat .

The Volkodav will certainly fair better than an Alabai ( and a Caucasian Ovrachka, but not mentioning them since they are among the weakest and most overrated LGDs on the planet, rivaling the Tibetan Mastiff) , but against a dogo of that type that literally runs straight at your face, grabs your neck and never lets go it's literally game over. The dogo will never release that grip, not a single time. I've seen quite frequently that pet dogos from mail.ru randomly release the opponent to start bite the limbs or just randomly jumping over the dog by trying to "dominate" it like if it was humping it .
A hunting dogo will never do that assuming it will fight the dog like if it was a boar. It would secure a good grip on the dog's neck and never release until the latter tires out by struggling and finishes on the ground.


A fighting alabai would fair equally as bad, probably would die quicklier because of it's innatural overconfidence developed in arenas when the LGD nature sometimes applies more on intimidation , especially when fighting a predator that if it doesn't suffer from a size disadvantage (unlikely, average male cats are as heavy as the vast majority or even the largest working individuals of that breed, with the difference that they can reach 180-200+ lbs and still being functional as hell while the latter stops at 160-170 lbs) it will make a blue rare steak out of it.

Unless you give it the exploding collar ..that could change.

Good to see Menvidas defending the cat. Thought this thread was going to run out of gas pretty quickly.