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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 17:02:29 GMT
Perhaps it is epicyon. I heard they were the biggest canids ever. Xenocyon lycaonoides is up there too. It's like a mix between Dholes and AWDs. I'm pretty sure they lived in Africa, but I'll have to check.  Xenocyon are very cool, but they are likely not crazily robust. They are the ancestors of Lycaon Pictus and Cuon Alpinus (awds and dholes), but were larger in dimension. Proportionately they were probably similar in robusticity. There were 4 known species, an african variant, a european variant and an asian variant and then another more recent variant (lycanoides) which actually ranged into Africa and Eurasia simultaneously. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 17:07:02 GMT
Oh... Well that is disappointing. But thanks anyway. Well canids are not particularly strong for their size. Dogs that are bred for the purpose of fighting are the only exception ig. I'd argue cats aren't particular strong either. Both dogs and cats are kind of spread about, and most cats are definitely on the weaker side. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 17:22:01 GMT
Well canids are not particularly strong for their size. Dogs that are bred for the purpose of fighting are the only exception ig. I'd argue cats aren't particular strong either. Both dogs and cats are kind of spread about, and most cats are definitely on the weaker side. How did you get into dogs? Like why are they your favourite animals. Actually that's a good idea for a thread: "How did you get into the group of animals that you identify yourself with knowing the most about?" Could probably use with a better title... |
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Jul 5, 2023 17:37:29 GMT
Well canids are not particularly strong for their size. Dogs that are bred for the purpose of fighting are the only exception ig. I'd argue cats aren't particular strong either. Both dogs and cats are kind of spread about, and most cats are definitely on the weaker side. Cats are definitely not stronger than bears and probably not stronger than some mustelid species either but in your graph, it appears that cats generally outscore canid and hyeanid species with the exception of boardhounds and roman bulldogs. |
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Jul 5, 2023 17:39:49 GMT
Perhaps it is epicyon. I heard they were the biggest canids ever. Xenocyon lycaonoides is up there too. It's like a mix between Dholes and AWDs. I'm pretty sure they lived in Africa, but I'll have to check. Interesting, I've actually never heard of this animal before. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 17:44:22 GMT
I'd argue cats aren't particular strong either. Both dogs and cats are kind of spread about, and most cats are definitely on the weaker side. Cats are definitely not stronger than bears and probably not stronger than some mustelid species either but in your graph, it appears that cats generally outscore canid and hyeanid species with the exception of boardhounds and roman bulldogs. Both generally group between 6.5% and 9.5%, but there may be a slight correlation for felines to lean a little bit more robust. Just intuitively I would have assumed the difference would be more extreme than it is, with felines needing to use their grappling forelimbs in brief and explosive attacks, and dogs being marathon runners. To me the big story is the surprising closeness. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 17:48:03 GMT
I'd argue cats aren't particular strong either. Both dogs and cats are kind of spread about, and most cats are definitely on the weaker side. How did you get into dogs? Like why are they your favourite animals. Actually that's a good idea for a thread: "How did you get into the group of animals that you identify yourself with knowing the most about?" Could probably use with a better title... Well I entered animal debates as a fan of sharks, and then orcas, and then I kind of moved to lions and was known for that, for a while. But the consistent thing that bugged me was people disrespecting dogs. "Fido would be an easy snack for a wolf hehe". Stuff like that would frequently pop up and I'd be like "ehhh... yeah nah" because I happened to come from a redneck "working pig dog" background and knew dogs as being quite serious combative things. It all kind of slowly morphed from there. I didn't intend to be a dog guy coming into animal forums though. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 17:52:55 GMT
Xenocyon lycaonoides is up there too. It's like a mix between Dholes and AWDs. I'm pretty sure they lived in Africa, but I'll have to check. Interesting, I've actually never heard of this animal before. No one is sure what they looked like, but it is probably best to use dholes and AWDs as a guide. I like this depiction-  This is kind of cool also-  They are thought to have weighed up around 80 kgs, so they were pretty gnarly things. Add the clues that they were extremely social and hypercarnivorous, they were actually keeping wolves in a "jackal" state. When they went extinct is precisely when wolves as we know them suddenly emerged. |
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Jul 5, 2023 17:59:46 GMT
Cats are definitely not stronger than bears and probably not stronger than some mustelid species either but in your graph, it appears that cats generally outscore canid and hyeanid species with the exception of boardhounds and roman bulldogs. Both generally group between 6.5% and 9.5%, but there may be a slight correlation for felines to lean a little bit more robust. Just intuitively I would have assumed the difference would be more extreme than it is, with felines needing to use their grappling forelimbs in brief and explosive attacks, and dogs being marathon runners. To me the big story is the surprising closeness. I guess it depends on the cat and canid species in question. A cat species may be at bit more robust and another species can be significantly more robust. And sure, the vice versa is also possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 18:08:27 GMT
How did you get into dogs? Like why are they your favourite animals. Actually that's a good idea for a thread: "How did you get into the group of animals that you identify yourself with knowing the most about?" Could probably use with a better title... Well I entered animal debates as a fan of sharks, and then orcas, and then I kind of moved to lions and was known for that, for a while. But the consistent thing that bugged me was people disrespecting dogs. "Fido would be an easy snack for a wolf hehe". Stuff like that would frequently pop up and I'd be like "ehhh... yeah nah" because I happened to come from a redneck "working pig dog" background and knew dogs as being quite serious combative things. It all kind of slowly morphed from there. I didn't intend to be a dog guy coming into animal forums though. Sharks? When was this? Did you have a favourite species? Did you support gws over orcas at that time? Tell me about your likings towards them. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2023 18:17:19 GMT
Well I entered animal debates as a fan of sharks, and then orcas, and then I kind of moved to lions and was known for that, for a while. But the consistent thing that bugged me was people disrespecting dogs. "Fido would be an easy snack for a wolf hehe". Stuff like that would frequently pop up and I'd be like "ehhh... yeah nah" because I happened to come from a redneck "working pig dog" background and knew dogs as being quite serious combative things. It all kind of slowly morphed from there. I didn't intend to be a dog guy coming into animal forums though. Sharks? When was this? Did you have a favourite species? Did you support gws over orcas at that time? Tell me about your likings towards them. We weren't really talking about animal fights at the start. I was a fan of sharks and was debating that people shouldn't revenge kill them for killing people. That was my main interest as a fisherman around 2000-2001. I just loved wildlife and hated people killing sharks for stupid reasons. When animal vs animal debates started, the first match up was orca vs great white, and unfortunately for you I immediately flipped and supported the orca, lol. I was just like "yeah nah" even as a shark fan, and then I had to argue with all the passionate shark fans on what was a passionate shark website. And from then on I just stayed principled to applying my understanding of animal fighting ability which I independently had fostered and grown since I was a child who was weirdly interested in the idea of animals fighting. The fact the shark attacks forum developed a animal vs animal section was a match made in heaven because I already secretly was obsessed with that topic, but it had never been debated on the internet before that time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 18:55:30 GMT
Sharks? When was this? Did you have a favourite species? Did you support gws over orcas at that time? Tell me about your likings towards them. We weren't really talking about animal fights at the start. I was a fan of sharks and was debating that people shouldn't revenge kill them for killing people. That was my main interest as a fisherman around 2000-2001. I just loved wildlife and hated people killing sharks for stupid reasons. When animal vs animal debates started, the first match up was orca vs great white, and unfortunately for you I immediately flipped and supported the orca, lol. I was just like "yeah nah" even as a shark fan, and then I had to argue with all the passionate shark fans on what was a passionate shark website. And from then on I just stayed principled to applying my understanding of animal fighting ability which I independently had fostered and grown since I was a child who was weirdly interested in the idea of animals fighting. The fact the shark attacks forum developed a animal vs animal section was a match made in heaven because I already secretly was obsessed with that topic, but it had never been debated on the internet before that time. Hardcastle was at one point a fan of sharks. Who would've thought...? |
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Post by lincoln on Jul 5, 2023 18:58:22 GMT
Nice find, not surprised that the Jaguar is above all the other extant cats, kind of funny how the bulldog and boarhound are above most other carnivores. How was this study made? I have to ask that because I don’t take take any test seriously until I i know how it was made, like how many individuals were used, were they good individuals, etc. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 6, 2023 0:37:32 GMT
Nice find, not surprised that the Jaguar is above all the other extant cats, kind of funny how the bulldog and boarhound are above most other carnivores. How was this study made? I have to ask that because I don’t take take any test seriously until I i know how it was made, like how many individuals were used, were they good individuals, etc. It is based on a few different studies, I've just plotted the data from them into one chart. I too wish there was more info about how many individuals and their details etc. I can say there are a lot of wolves and a lot of foxes and a lot of dingoes, not totally sure about the rest. I can't find the original carnivore limb robusticity study, just the data and discussion by reddhole on carnivora. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 6, 2023 0:38:17 GMT
We weren't really talking about animal fights at the start. I was a fan of sharks and was debating that people shouldn't revenge kill them for killing people. That was my main interest as a fisherman around 2000-2001. I just loved wildlife and hated people killing sharks for stupid reasons. When animal vs animal debates started, the first match up was orca vs great white, and unfortunately for you I immediately flipped and supported the orca, lol. I was just like "yeah nah" even as a shark fan, and then I had to argue with all the passionate shark fans on what was a passionate shark website. And from then on I just stayed principled to applying my understanding of animal fighting ability which I independently had fostered and grown since I was a child who was weirdly interested in the idea of animals fighting. The fact the shark attacks forum developed a animal vs animal section was a match made in heaven because I already secretly was obsessed with that topic, but it had never been debated on the internet before that time. Hardcastle was at one point a fan of sharks. Who would've thought...? Goes to show there is hope for you yet. Jk |
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