ophio
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Post by ophio on May 25, 2023 21:52:18 GMT
Parity because weights do overlap
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 22:01:59 GMT
Parity because weights do overlap They do overweight but females can weigh as much as two Northwestern Wolves at max size. But parity is fine by me. Understandable |
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Post by Bolushi on May 25, 2023 23:41:18 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation.
Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here.
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ophio
Ruminant
Posts: 230
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Post by ophio on May 26, 2023 0:27:35 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. Yea the bear is just way too strong. It could be worse than wolf vs hyena but the wolf does have speed and arguably a better killing weapon if it was smart enough to just get a bite in and let the bear bleed out but thats not how they fight. |
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Musth
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Posts: 141
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Post by Musth on May 26, 2023 7:27:39 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. I agree with you. One thing to note however is that for whatever reason Bully Kutta are never used for bear baiting. I asked my one friend who has been to Pakistan many times and said that they only use small dogs like Gull Terr. I kept asking why they wouldn’t use a bigger dog but he never gave me a straight answer. Honestly I think it’s just so to gambling purposes. Bear baiting is considered a “sport” or “game”, it’s not a death match. Although I wish they would keep the bears claws and teeth. I think most of the time they are removed is because they are used for dancing bears. But regardless I hate seeing them declawed and toothless. |
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Post by Bolushi on May 26, 2023 13:17:26 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. I agree with you. One thing to note however is that for whatever reason Bully Kutta are never used for bear baiting. I asked my one friend who has been to Pakistan many times and said that they only use small dogs like Gull Terr. I kept asking why they wouldn’t use a bigger dog but he never gave me a straight answer. Honestly I think it’s just so to gambling purposes. Bear baiting is considered a “sport” or “game”, it’s not a death match. Although I wish they would keep the bears claws and teeth. I think most of the time they are removed is because they are used for dancing bears. But regardless I hate seeing them declawed and toothless. I did see one with a BK or Gull Dong once. Will look for the video either tonight or in 10 or so days since school gets out today and I am going to Illinois. Maybe you could find it on mail ru. |
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Musth
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Posts: 141
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Post by Musth on May 26, 2023 17:21:29 GMT
I agree with you. One thing to note however is that for whatever reason Bully Kutta are never used for bear baiting. I asked my one friend who has been to Pakistan many times and said that they only use small dogs like Gull Terr. I kept asking why they wouldn’t use a bigger dog but he never gave me a straight answer. Honestly I think it’s just so to gambling purposes. Bear baiting is considered a “sport” or “game”, it’s not a death match. Although I wish they would keep the bears claws and teeth. I think most of the time they are removed is because they are used for dancing bears. But regardless I hate seeing them declawed and toothless. I did see one with a BK or Gull Dong once. Will look for the video either tonight or in 10 or so days since school gets out today and I am going to Illinois. Maybe you could find it on mail ru. That’s actually good to know lol. According to my friend it never happens and they only use “small dogs” he even stated the BK was too “big” to use lol. Glad to see bigger dogs are used though. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 4, 2023 3:17:33 GMT
I did see one with a BK or Gull Dong once. Will look for the video either tonight or in 10 or so days since school gets out today and I am going to Illinois. Maybe you could find it on mail ru. That’s actually good to know lol. According to my friend it never happens and they only use “small dogs” he even stated the BK was too “big” to use lol. Glad to see bigger dogs are used though. This entire channel has Gull Dongs being used but they aren't very big. my.mail.ru/mail/shtrafbat-kennel/video/bear_baiting/3.htmlHere's a "Bully Kutta", but I didn't know they got that small. I suspect it's a Gull Dong. my.mail.ru/mail/hi-teck333/video/_myvideo/24.htmlSome big dogs in this dumb animal right activist montage too - my.mail.ru/mail/hi-teck333/video/_myvideo/8.htmlYour friend is correct they don't seem to use dogs over 100lbs or so but they definitely use dogs bigger than 55lb gull terrs. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 4, 2023 3:18:13 GMT
BTW I have access to a computer now. Not home yet though.
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Wyatt
Ruminant
Posts: 178
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Post by Wyatt on Jun 4, 2023 9:59:48 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. if it was smart enough to just get a bite in and let the bear bleed out but thats not how they fight. Did it ever cross your mind the reason they aren’t doing that is because its not worth it to tangle with a bear, another carnivoran which will just maul you, even if very slowly? There are videos of wolves taking beatings from bison and muskoxen and still latching onto them, but yes thats not what they do with bears. You need a bulldog if you’re gonna subjugate something thats not a bison or a muskoxen. Specialized in subjugation, not the jack of all trades subjugation. Saying “smart enough” is an issue because it implies that the wolf doing that would be a smarter decision. |
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ophio
Ruminant
Posts: 230
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Post by ophio on Jun 4, 2023 22:37:43 GMT
if it was smart enough to just get a bite in and let the bear bleed out but thats not how they fight. Did it ever cross your mind the reason they aren’t doing that is because its not worth it to tangle with a bear, another carnivoran which will just maul you, even if very slowly? There are videos of wolves taking beatings from bison and muskoxen and still latching onto them, but yes thats not what they do with bears. You need a bulldog if you’re gonna subjugate something thats not a bison or a muskoxen. Specialized in subjugation, not the jack of all trades subjugation. Saying “smart enough” is an issue because it implies that the wolf doing that would be a smarter decision. Yea im starting to realize a bear might be a bit too much for the wolf even at similar sizes. Honestly a bear is just way too durable for a bulldog as well and it can grapple. |
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Wyatt
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Post by Wyatt on Jun 4, 2023 22:49:19 GMT
Did it ever cross your mind the reason they aren’t doing that is because its not worth it to tangle with a bear, another carnivoran which will just maul you, even if very slowly? There are videos of wolves taking beatings from bison and muskoxen and still latching onto them, but yes thats not what they do with bears. You need a bulldog if you’re gonna subjugate something thats not a bison or a muskoxen. Specialized in subjugation, not the jack of all trades subjugation. Saying “smart enough” is an issue because it implies that the wolf doing that would be a smarter decision. Yea im starting to realize a bear might be a bit too much for the wolf even at similar sizes. Honestly a bear is just way too durable for a bulldog as well and it can grapple. Yeah I agree. I don’t believe any bulldog is killing a bear, as in causing its death. I do however believe a bulldog could tangle or wrestle with a bear enough that it could be considered winning against the bear if the bear gives up. But in a fight to the death usually, “canid vs bear” is never gonna be a fair match. Canids can and do harass bears, and bulldogs like other canids can harass and due to domestication subjugate them, but a fight to the death is never gonna happen and if it does happen its rare enough we can say its not gonna happen. I do believe a bulldog would fare better against a black bear than a grizzly bear, because the grizzly has a size advantage and more experience tangling with other predators. But I still do believe a black bear could be hard, like you said. It was my mistake saying wolves could kill black bears, apparently according to research its rare. I just came to that conclusion from what i’ve learned over the years from others and they always love to say “wolves can kill black bears” and while they can they are not your run of the mill black bear. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on Jun 4, 2023 22:58:33 GMT
Yea im starting to realize a bear might be a bit too much for the wolf even at similar sizes. Honestly a bear is just way too durable for a bulldog as well and it can grapple. Yeah I agree. I don’t believe any bulldog is killing a bear, as in causing its death. I do however believe a bulldog could tangle or wrestle with a bear enough that it could be considered winning against the bear if the bear gives up. But in a fight to the death usually, “canid vs bear” is never gonna be a fair match. Canids can and do harass bears, and bulldogs like other canids can harass and due to domestication subjugate them, but a fight to the death is never gonna happen and if it does happen its rare enough we can say its not gonna happen. I do believe a bulldog would fare better against a black bear than a grizzly bear, because the grizzly has a size advantage and more experience tangling with other predators. But I still do believe a black bear could be hard, like you said. It was my mistake saying wolves could kill black bears, apparently according to research its rare. I just came to that conclusion from what i’ve learned over the years from others and they always love to say “wolves can kill black bears” and while they can they are not your run of the mill black bear. Imo wolves can kill black bears but thats usually when the bear is hibernating and vulnerable. I do notice wolf packs dominate over black bears while they respect brown bears even small ones a lot more. I think the issue about canids or hyenas is that once the bear gets them in a "hug", the canid/hyena is pretty helpless. The larger brown bears can also pack a hefty slap which leads grey wolves to respect bears a lot more than hyenas respect similar sized lions. |
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Wyatt
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Post by Wyatt on Jun 4, 2023 23:11:37 GMT
Yeah I agree. I don’t believe any bulldog is killing a bear, as in causing its death. I do however believe a bulldog could tangle or wrestle with a bear enough that it could be considered winning against the bear if the bear gives up. But in a fight to the death usually, “canid vs bear” is never gonna be a fair match. Canids can and do harass bears, and bulldogs like other canids can harass and due to domestication subjugate them, but a fight to the death is never gonna happen and if it does happen its rare enough we can say its not gonna happen. I do believe a bulldog would fare better against a black bear than a grizzly bear, because the grizzly has a size advantage and more experience tangling with other predators. But I still do believe a black bear could be hard, like you said. It was my mistake saying wolves could kill black bears, apparently according to research its rare. I just came to that conclusion from what i’ve learned over the years from others and they always love to say “wolves can kill black bears” and while they can they are not your run of the mill black bear. Imo wolves can kill black bears but thats usually when the bear is hibernating and vulnerable. I do notice wolf packs dominate over black bears while they respect brown bears even small ones a lot more. I think the issue about canids or hyenas is that once the bear gets them in a "hug", the canid/hyena is pretty helpless. The larger brown bears can also pack a hefty slap which leads grey wolves to respect bears a lot more than hyenas respect similar sized lions. And the fact that extremely tight-knit pack cohesion is not in wolves as it is in Dholes, African Wild Dogs, etc. You have a lot of wolves that will not engage, a lot wolves that will engage yet don’t get themselves killed, and then you get the wolf that just doesn’t really care. Its what I pointed out. Now in dogs, these wolf traits I mentioned two paragraphs back are specialized. The soft bailers, which are usually Scenthounds. Then we have the rough curs which are most dogs. Catahoulas, Black Mouth Curs, Herders, Spitz, Airedales, etc. and then we get the bulldog stage. Hyenas usually don’t have any respect for lions because its a different environment. In that environment predators just kill anything else and try to survive the next day. Wolves are the same except with bears they can easily avoid them, where as with hyenas they can’t easily avoid lions. Lions are big cats that live in prides so when you have a big cat + numbers you get one hell of a competitor. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on Jun 4, 2023 23:19:37 GMT
Imo wolves can kill black bears but thats usually when the bear is hibernating and vulnerable. I do notice wolf packs dominate over black bears while they respect brown bears even small ones a lot more. I think the issue about canids or hyenas is that once the bear gets them in a "hug", the canid/hyena is pretty helpless. The larger brown bears can also pack a hefty slap which leads grey wolves to respect bears a lot more than hyenas respect similar sized lions. And the fact that extremely tight-knit pack cohesion is not in wolves as it is in Dholes, African Wild Dogs, etc. You have a lot of wolves that will not engage, a lot wolves that will engage yet don’t get themselves killed, and then you get the wolf that just doesn’t really care. Its what I pointed out. Now in dogs, these wolf traits I mentioned two paragraphs back are specialized. The soft bailers, which are usually Scenthounds. Then we have the rough curs which are most dogs. Catahoulas, Black Mouth Curs, Herders, Spitz, Airedales, etc. and then we get the bulldog stage. Hyenas usually don’t have any respect for lions because its a different environment. In that environment predators just kill anything else and try to survive the next day. Wolves are the same except with bears they can easily avoid them, where as with hyenas they can’t easily avoid lions. Lions are big cats that live in prides so when you have a big cat + numbers you get one hell of a competitor. Yea it could be that bears really aren't a threat to wolves so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some evolutionary script on how they deal with each other. Wolves come to a kill, see that bear has it so they just leave. If the wolf has cubs nearby, they will be a bit more aggressive but the bear kinda realizes it and cooperates Hyena lion interactions are rarely this smooth. |
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