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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 5, 2023 0:21:02 GMT
"Hyena lion interactions are rarely this smooth. "
Wolves are far more evasive than hyenas, and Lions far better at catching things than grizzlies, so the wolves are at basically no risk of being caught.
The only case I've seen was in a dumb zoo where they put bears and wolves together, that's basically a "sucker punch". The wolves have their guards down because they are living with the bears like fellow-pets, they would see the bears like "friends" and trust them not to attack, but one did.
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Wyatt
Ruminant
Posts: 178
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Post by Wyatt on Jun 5, 2023 1:00:52 GMT
"Hyena lion interactions are rarely this smooth. " Wolves are far more evasive than hyenas, and Lions far better at catching things than grizzlies, so the wolves are at basically no risk of being caught. The only case I've seen was in a dumb zoo where they put bears and wolves together, that's basically a "sucker punch". The wolves have their guards down because they are living with the bears like fellow-pets, they would see the bears like "friends" and trust them not to attack, but one did. I wouldn’t say wolves are that good at evasiveness but you’re absolutely right compared to bears. That being said though, I mean Northwestern wolves. The large wolves in North America which can tackle elk and ranch bison. They don’t seem to be all that evasive, and put them and a Border Collie in a race and the Border Collie would probably win due to british herders having more evasiveness than wolves and gripping dogs. I could probably say the same for Eurasian wolves but I haven’t done as much study on them. Bears are known for being notoriously slow due to their huge size and build, so a wolf could still be more evasive than them. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 5, 2023 2:33:06 GMT
Hyena and lion interactions have a much higher tendency to get very violent. Hyenas can't really evade lions too well and they jump to "attack and mob" fairly quick. None have the lateral quickness to bother attempting to get away if the lion is dead set on catching and killing it and hyenas are big, powerful and surly in their abilities to fight lionesses. However usually they DO try to run away from male lions and it's a situation of "I don't have to be faster than the lion, just faster than Steve."
As opposed to wolves and dogs who evade with their individual quickness, hyenas use their durable teammates as decoys.
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ophio
Ruminant
Posts: 230
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Post by ophio on Jun 5, 2023 4:11:44 GMT
"Hyena lion interactions are rarely this smooth. " Wolves are far more evasive than hyenas, and Lions far better at catching things than grizzlies, so the wolves are at basically no risk of being caught. The only case I've seen was in a dumb zoo where they put bears and wolves together, that's basically a "sucker punch". The wolves have their guards down because they are living with the bears like fellow-pets, they would see the bears like "friends" and trust them not to attack, but one did. Small bears can also climb. . That being said, i doubt the wolves would have done much had they actually caught the bear maybe nip it a bit and then let it go. It was a young bear too. Even with wild dogs lions and hyenas are a lot more fierce in their interactions imo |
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Post by s on Sept 12, 2023 10:14:24 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. I think you are overestimating the Bulldog's resistance to damage. Even a de-clawed and de-dentitioned black bear would beat up a Bully Kuta more often than not, i doubt BK has the weaponry needed to kill or seriously wound it. In Dogfighting it's common for a Dog (even if he wins) to come out of the fight with broken ribs and legs, which will cause his death either on the fight or a few hours after the fight without medical intervention. That's them fighting other dogs btw, not a Bear |
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Post by Bolushi on Sept 12, 2023 10:18:10 GMT
Mismatch. We need a bulldog for this. Or maybe an LGD. Dogs with strong jaws but also the bodies to withstand retaliation. Those de-clawed and de-dentitioned bears you see at the bear baiting rings, they can pin a dog but since they're gull terrs and bully kuttas it doesn't go anywhere due to the power in the dog's body. It would however fuck up a wolf. And indeed I've seen a bear drop onto a laika and it just crumpled like paper. They weren't similarly sized at all but I see the same result here. I think you are overestimating the Bulldog's resistance to damage. Even a de-clawed and de-dentitioned black bear would beat up a Bully Kuta more often than not, i doubt BK has the weaponry needed to kill or seriously wound it. In Dogfighting it's common for a Dog (even if he wins) to come out of the fight with broken ribs and legs, which will cause his death a few hours after the fight without medical intervention. That's fighting other dogs btw, not a Bear which can break their spine by simply falling on the Dog. If that was the case, bulldogs wouldn't be viable catch dogs for bears. Which they are... a bulldog is no easy mark for a bear at all. Even a big grizzly. It's actually a massive pain in the ass and the bear will get beaten up. Gripping dogs are too flexible for their spine to break like that. They always manage to crawl out from under their opponent, whether they've teeth and claws or not. I actually came across a video where one did have its claws and teeth, there wasn't a big difference really. |
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Post by oldgreengrolar on Sept 12, 2023 10:44:32 GMT
I think I will go for the bear one on one. The wolf has much stronger jaws but lacks the grappling ability and claws. The bear’s jaws and teeth can still do some damage too.
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Post by s on Sept 12, 2023 11:40:18 GMT
I think you are overestimating the Bulldog's resistance to damage. Even a de-clawed and de-dentitioned black bear would beat up a Bully Kuta more often than not, i doubt BK has the weaponry needed to kill or seriously wound it. In Dogfighting it's common for a Dog (even if he wins) to come out of the fight with broken ribs and legs, which will cause his death a few hours after the fight without medical intervention. That's fighting other dogs btw, not a Bear which can break their spine by simply falling on the Dog. If that was the case, bulldogs wouldn't be viable catch dogs for bears. Which they are... a bulldog is no easy mark for a bear at all. Even a big grizzly. It's actually a massive pain in the ass and the bear will get beaten up. Gripping dogs are too flexible for their spine to break like that. They always manage to crawl out from under their opponent, whether they've teeth and claws or not. I actually came across a video where one did have its claws and teeth, there wasn't a big difference really. Perhaps "breaking it's spine" was too hyperbolic, but in many of these Barbaric dogfights the winner dog comes out seriously injured or even half-dead by the time the fight is over. With broken legs, collapsed ribs, broken nasal cavities or other conditions that would cause it's death without human medical intervention. I failed to see how a Bear would be unable to do that or worse, just in a shorter time space. |
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