Post by s on Oct 26, 2023 6:57:55 GMT
Oct 5, 2023 12:50:29 GMT s said:
How many Dogo Argentinos would it take to beat a Smilodon Populator?The force which is in them surmounteth all beleefe, the fast holde which they take with their teeth exceedeth all credit, three of them against a Beare, fowre against a Lyon are sufficient, both to try masteryes with them and vtterly to ouermatch them.
This is consistent with the testimony of big game hunter George P Sanderson, who also noted cats require more dogs than bears. (though he was talking about much smaller dogs- specifically 35 lbs bull terriers, but also leopards/panthers rather than lions).
It is remarkable how little injury the dogs sustain in this rough style of hunting. The simultaneousness of their attack overpowers a bear or panther, and prevents its paying attention to any dog in particular. The bull-dog's habit of fixing on to the nose or cheek of a foe renders the animal it seizes unable to do much injury by biting when once it has been seized. Then, though bears and panthers can inflict a severe blow when the object struck is at arm's-length, when it is very close their paws and claws are comparatively powerless. A bear's claws are so blunt that when a dog is holding him he cannot tear his skin, or make any wound, though at arm's length he might cuff him soundly ; and a panther, though his claws are so sharp, can do little more harm. A bear never hugs the dogs ; his nose makes a splendid hold ; and from what I have seen, I consider two really good bull-dogs a complete match for any bear, if they get a fair chance of flying at him together. Once seized by the snout a bear is a helpless creature, and does little but roll over and howl.
Six will be as many as are required for any bear, bison, or panther, and indeed four will generally suffice, or even two with most bears. Anything like a running hunt is to be avoided, as the dogs may "be disposed of in detail as they come up. They should be slipped well together, and not before they all see clearly what they have to do. Unless they understand that there is a common enemy, such excitable and pugnacious dogs are liable to fall upon each other. It is necessary to keep them all on as friendly terms as possible, but this can sometimes only be managed by keeping them apart, as rivals will fight whenever they get a chance.
This admittedly implies a leopard, especially a mature male, is more difficult than a sloth bear.
And... I believe it. Even though sloth bear vs leopard is a no brainer (in favour of sloth bear), I do believe a leopard is more problematic for compact gripping dogs.
However, that is 30 lbs dogs, and he says 6 because he had six, and they bested leopards. He doesn't necessarily know that's the minimum. And indeed bettered a leopard with 4 of his little dogs-
I have never killed a panther in the jungles with dogs only, but I once let a full-grown leopard out of a cage in an open plain with Bill Sykes, Turk, Bismarck, and Tiger. They speedily rendered him hors de combat, though I had to put a knife into him at last, as it is impossible for dogs to kill a panther or bear outright, though they can make them unable to leave the spot. Turk was the only dog bitten, and he was not severely hurt. Panthers or leopards in caves might be easily overcome with such dogs.
Alaunt gentils were at least 3 times the size of the dogs Sanderson was using in 4s to dominate a leopard.
In fact, they were very similar to working dogo argentinos-
If it takes 4X 35 lbs dogs to best a 155 lbs leopard.
And 4x 90 lbs dogs to best a 400 lbs lion.
then logically one might conclude it would take 8 x 100 lbs dogos to best a 880 lbs S. Populator. I don't think so, I don't think the numbers are about size as much as neutralising weapons. For smilodon populator it may take a couple more dogs to weigh down those monstrous arms, so I am ok with 6 dogos. 3 on each arm. Or 2 on 1, 3 on the other, and 1 seizing the cheek. It is definitely doable and a sober goal for 4-6 good dogs.
As for the Smilodon, i don't think it needs to be argued that a single paw swipe of this one-shots any dog. Now you are down to 5 Dogs. Then 4. And so on. There are cases of Tigers paralyzing human arms by merely scratching it for half a second. Now imagine that x3. Smilodon's claws merely have to make contact to kill one of the Dogos.