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Post by lincoln on Feb 25, 2023 9:32:14 GMT
Who wins?
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Post by lincoln on Feb 25, 2023 9:33:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 9:38:02 GMT
The lioness can use its arms to ping pong the jaguar from afar. If it devolved into a close quarter grapple and they were of similar size I may be compelled to go jaguar but it could really go either way.
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 25, 2023 10:15:57 GMT
This is a matchup I think I'd like to just see because I honestly have no idea.
At face value I just assume lioness, but when I think about lionesses getting bullied by spotted hyenas sometimes and then imagine a monumental big mean hardcore male Jaguar ... I kind of lean jaguar I think...
But then at the same time I have seen single lionesses kill cape buffalo's very impressively and quickly in a way which I'm not sure a Jag could .... I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 11:56:06 GMT
We're talking a MALE big cat vs a FEMALE big cat. If we're talking parity, say 250 lb cats, then you have a small female lioness vs large male jaguar. Even male jaguars are assumed to be more robust than male lions, let alone FEMALE lions, let alone SMALL female lions. Lions are far more sexually dimorphic than jaguars therefore male lions experience a lot more intraspecific competition between rival males. Does the greater fighting experience of highly sexually dimorphic species' extend to the females of those species? Are female lions more experienced fighters than male jaguars? Hardcastle I can't seem to locate the footage now but I'm aware of one example of a lone lioness taking a buffalo cow. However, irrc that was an Okavango lioness and a lot of those Okavango lionesses are pushing 400 lbs. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 25, 2023 18:39:59 GMT
A female lion would win on an average, but the jaguar could win at parity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 19:48:43 GMT
I think Bolushi is on the right track at parity, if they got down to it the large male jaguar would end up wrapping the lioness up. I just can't see a small lioness having the strength to submit a large male jaguar tom. The lioness will be a fair bit taller but also way more dainty and the taller profile isn't going to help it one bit when it's time to submit or be submitted....   |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 25, 2023 20:38:12 GMT
I think Bolushi is on the right track at parity, if they got down to it the large male jaguar would end up wrapping the lioness up. I just can't see a small lioness having the strength to submit a large male jaguar tom. The lioness will be a fair bit taller but also way more dainty and the taller profile isn't going to help it one bit when it's time to submit or be submitted.... Congo Leopards really do look robust. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 20:44:24 GMT
I think Bolushi is on the right track at parity, if they got down to it the large male jaguar would end up wrapping the lioness up. I just can't see a small lioness having the strength to submit a large male jaguar tom. The lioness will be a fair bit taller but also way more dainty and the taller profile isn't going to help it one bit when it's time to submit or be submitted.... Congo Leopards really do look robust. True that subpopulation of very large leopard has males that may as well be male jaguars in terms of robusticity. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 20:55:14 GMT
CoolJohnson the thing is P4P male jaguar vs male lion would be up for debate, but parity female lion over male jaguar? I'm not seeing it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 21:22:00 GMT
This may be a badly exaggerated analogy but parity male jaguar vs lioness is like boxer vs American bully. The boxer gets manhandled, out-muscled. Like realistically is the boxer REALLY going to be able to submit an American bully? There's too much of a robusticity/strength differential for that to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 21:24:38 GMT
This may be a badly exaggerated analogy but parity male jaguar vs lioness is like boxer vs American bully. The boxer is getting manhandled, out-muscled. Not at all. A boxer would fuck up any dog breed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 21:28:34 GMT
This may be a badly exaggerated analogy but parity male jaguar vs lioness is like boxer vs American bully. The boxer is getting manhandled, out-muscled. Not at all. A boxer would fuck up any dog breed. Wait you probably mean the breed. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 25, 2023 21:39:37 GMT
CoolJohnson the thing is P4P male jaguar vs male lion would be up for debate, but parity female lion over male jaguar? I'm not seeing it. Yeah I agree with the parity part. I just think the Lion will win due to a larger average size. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 22:05:09 GMT
CoolJohnson the thing is P4P male jaguar vs male lion would be up for debate, but parity female lion over male jaguar? I'm not seeing it. Yeah I agree with the parity part. I just think the Lion will win due to a larger average size. Certainly. I was just thinking the parity discussion is the most interesting one to have, that average-to-average isn't that debatable in the first place. I'd assume without saying that average lioness (say 280 lbs) vs average male Pantanal (say 220 lbs) should go to the lioness, although that actually might be closer than I assumed at a cursory glance. |
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