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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 22:06:15 GMT
Not at all. A boxer would fuck up any dog breed. Wait you probably mean the breed. Yup, the breed. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 25, 2023 22:20:00 GMT
Yeah I agree with the parity part. I just think the Lion will win due to a larger average size. Certainly. I was just thinking the parity discussion is the most interesting one to have, that average-to-average isn't that debatable in the first place. I'd assume without saying that average lioness (say 280 lbs) vs average male Pantanal (say 220 lbs) should go to the lioness, although that actually might be closer than I assumed at a cursory glance. Yeah. Also, it seems the average is around 210 pounds, but that is nearly the same as 220 pounds. While there are small subspecies and/or populations of female lions, there also very small populations of jaguars like the ones in Mexico and Belize. As in 50 and 56 kg average for males respectively in those countries. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 22:57:48 GMT
Certainly. I was just thinking the parity discussion is the most interesting one to have, that average-to-average isn't that debatable in the first place. I'd assume without saying that average lioness (say 280 lbs) vs average male Pantanal (say 220 lbs) should go to the lioness, although that actually might be closer than I assumed at a cursory glance. Yeah. Also, it seems the average is around 210 pounds, but that is nearly the same as 220 pounds. While there are small subspecies and/or populations of female lions, there also very small populations of jaguars like the ones in Mexico and Belize. As in 50 and 56 kg average for males respectively in those countries. True. I think the smaller African lion subpopulations average 260-ish for adult females, implying a number of perfectly healthy adult lionesses will be getting down probably around 240. So there will be some viable "parity" opportunity against large-jaguar subpopulations. What I'm wondering is does lion get more robust the bigger they get like cougar and leopard do, like are 500 lb adult male lions generally more proportionally robust than 350 lb adult male lions. Wondering same too with tiger, and jaguar. I'd assume "yeah" but really haven't heard this talked about like it is with cougar and leopard. And if "yes", to what degree? Similar bell curve as with cougar and leopard? Also is there a greater proportional robusticity-discrepancy between the sexes of sexually dimorphic panthera than with less sexually dimorphic panthera? For example is lioness (a highly sexually-dimorphic species) more proportionally gracile compared to male lion than female jaguar (a less sexually-dimorphic species) is to male jaguar? With that one my impression is the female of the less sexually-dimorphic panthera is closer in robusticity to the male of that species than with more sexually-dimorphic panthera, although that's only an impression at this point. @ling Bolushi |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 26, 2023 0:58:46 GMT
Yeah I was thinking the lioness was bigger.
I still thought it was somewhat interesting. A 300 lbs male jaguar vs a 390 lbs lioness lets say...
My knee jerk reaction would be to say Lioness, but when I think about it maybe not as clear cut. The "male-ish" combative psychology of the jaguar, along with it's extreme compact power, I think the lioness might wilt in the face of that. Like I said they don't even seem to have the easiest time with a spotted hyena. As I think about it I'm trying to recall seeing a female lion kill a spotted hyena and I don't know if I have.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 8:46:40 GMT
Yeah I was thinking the lioness was bigger. I still thought it was somewhat interesting. A 300 lbs male jaguar vs a 390 lbs lioness lets say... My knee jerk reaction would be to say Lioness, but when I think about it maybe not as clear cut. The "male-ish" combative psychology of the jaguar, along with it's extreme compact power, I think the lioness might wilt in the face of that. Like I said they don't even seem to have the easiest time with a spotted hyena. As I think about it I'm trying to recall seeing a female lion kill a spotted hyena and I don't know if I have. No doubt mate, a lioness of any weight taking a full-grown buffalo cow is something to write home about. Indeed, from what I've observed it's basically 3 spotted hyena have the advantage over a lone lioness, but not 2. Although just because 2 give way doesn't mean 2 couldn't beat her if they actually fought. 20 spotted hyena give way to 1 prime male lion even though clearly 20 spotted hyena could take the lion. They give way because they know the lion could injure 1 or a couple of them during a skirmish and none of them want to risk being that 1. And the hyena that initiates an attack that means something is the one that gets it, so no hyena initiates attack in the first place. How does this look for a 210 lb jaguar and 280 lb lioness? ![]()   ![]() I think yeah this jaguar does represent a fair bit better for its weight compared to that lioness, although THAT lioness probably does still just pip this jaguar. It's not a mismatch at all like it should be when comparing 210 lb vs 280 lb pantheras; this lioness has a small 6/10 advantage. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 8:59:27 GMT
I think jaguars are a good bit more compact than lionesses, more than we're thinking, based on your image. That's a starving male lion it looks like though.
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 26, 2023 14:24:54 GMT
Looks like a Juvenile male IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 17:11:10 GMT
Looks like a Juvenile male IMO. I thought so too but the article is talking about a lioness hunting waterbuck. I still think it's still probably a male though. And maybe even on the small side for 280. Lets try another one.   Maybe still small but there's surprisingly few lioness images in profile to be found, at least on my "lioness" image search. |
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