Post by Hardcastle on Feb 4, 2023 9:59:14 GMT
Feb 4, 2023 9:51:34 GMT Musth said:
APBT fights are different, they are actually exploiting prey drive.
The use of "bait dogs" is part of a process of conditioning gamedogs to view other dogs as prey. These dogs have no "friends", no socialising whatsoever. They are trained to see dogs as vermin. They are killing the rival dog not to get alpha status, but rather to secure prey for their packmate which is the human.
Gameness was actually built in gripping dogs for the purpose of hunting, being reliable to hold onto a dangerous beast and keep fighting no matter what, even if your legs are broken and your guts is spilling out of your body. This game instinct on a hunt was favoured in gripping dogs, because that is their purpose, making it safe for a human to approach and handle a dangerous beast. If they give up and let go when they are badly injured, then that is incredibly dangerous for the approaching human. So that "never give up" attitude is a psychological trait connected to the prey drive of gripping dogs. Disgustingly, in the past bulldog breeders would actually demonstrate their line's reliability and gameness by having it lug a bull and then cut it's legs off one by one to show it won't let go no matter what.
With game dog fighting, the dog is fighting the other dog like it's a bull or boar, it's not willing to give up while the other dog is still alive, because in accordance with it's biological directive that means the dog is still a threat to it's human. The gender of the dog makes no difference, because all of them hunt and seize game, so they can all be conditioned to view dogs as prey and not give a shit about gender. The females don't just fight each other, they fight males as well. Gender is a non-issue, because it is not a "social" interaction. It's a predatory interaction. With dogs fighting for rank this is not possible to replicate.
It could be argued this also makes pitbull vs other dog fights unfair. Each combatant has totally different motivations, and often you see a big dog beat a pitbull for a while and in the end start looking around like "why won't it give up? I'm the alpha??" and the pitbull ultimately prevails because it was hell bent on incapacitating the other dog like vermin, not just trying to assert it's authority.
My first childhood dog was deprived of socialisation and accidentally conditioned to view dogs as prey, it's a huge advantage.
But you are right especially with the LGD dogs. The Volkodav or “wolfhound” testing is traditionally used to test the males and to see who will the strongest male be for breeding. This isn’t supposed to be a female trait. At least in primitive pack oriented dogs like a lgd is supposed to be more or less.
And yes even Tosa, a male and tosa female can get along with no incidents…. You would never expect that with two gamebred apbt.
However only street thugs use “bait dogs” real dog men don’t do this. They do roll them against other dogs though on their yard sometimes many times before they are matched.
Bait dogs are a disgusting practice. Truly sickening. But I know it would be an easy and effective way to condition a dog to view dogs as prey. You can manage it without bait dogs, more than one way to skin a cat, but either way the avoiding socialisation and somehow instilling in the dog that dogs are prey is necessary.
The greyhound racing community actually do something very similar, not bait dogs but bait animals. They need to be "blooded" to switch on and race hard, and this is done via having them rip apart a screaming animal (sometimes tethered to the mechanical lure, but not always). A dog changes and becomes focussed after doing that. You can almost see in a dog's face if it is blooded or not. The goofy facial expression goes away.
