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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 22:07:33 GMT
I believe that Sahicasaurus would win. Iirc it's the largest pliosaur as of right now.
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Post by Methane on Jan 30, 2023 0:37:56 GMT
I'd favor the pliosaur actually, maybe even at parity; those jaws aren't anything to scoff at, I think they're better weaponry than what the orca has, though I'm unsure of how its mobility compares.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 0:53:18 GMT
I don't know but I feel safer voting orca due to smart.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 30, 2023 5:24:52 GMT
My understanding is sachiasaurus, though big, had unusually slender teeth and narrow mandibular symphysis (basically a pointy snout). Two anatomical traits which both imply an aversion to larger bulkier struggling prey.
I'm a big time pliosaur fan, but this might not be the guy. May have been a fish or squid specialist.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 8:04:21 GMT
My understanding is sachiasaurus, though big, had unusually slender teeth and narrow mandibular symphysis (basically a pointy snout). Two anatomical traits which both imply an aversion to larger bulkier struggling prey. I'm a big time pliosaur fan, but this might not be the guy. May have been a fish or squid specialist. Are they though? Seem perfectly fine to me lol. Also we are forgetting that orcas have pretty shitty teeth and jaws for their size. This match-up is a 12.3 ton pliosaur vs an 8 (arguably 9 ton) orca. Sahicasaurus wins handily. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 8:06:29 GMT
If you are in a mexican standoff I don't think whether someone brings a glock 19 or a winchester matters in the slightest, even if the glock 19 is comparably shitty.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 8:33:20 GMT
If you are in a mexican standoff I don't think whether someone brings a glock 19 or a winchester matters in the slightest, even if the glock 19 is comparably shitty. What? This is nothing like that in the slightest. Sahicasaurus could EASILY take multiple bites from an orca. Iirc rorqual on carnivora posted some images of orca bite marks on whales, they just look like scratches. And I'm sure that the pliosaur could kill the dolphin in one or two bites. If anything this is like a mexican standoff, but one guy has a desert eagle and the other guy has a plastic water gun. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 8:56:24 GMT
If you are in a mexican standoff I don't think whether someone brings a glock 19 or a winchester matters in the slightest, even if the glock 19 is comparably shitty. What? This is nothing like that in the slightest. Sahicasaurus could EASILY take multiple bites from an orca. Iirc rorqual on carnivora posted some images of orca bite marks on whales, they just look like scratches. And I'm sure that the pliosaur could kill the dolphin in one or two bites. If anything this is like a mexican standoff, but one guy has a desert eagle and the other guy has a plastic water gun. So I assume gharials also have desert eagles? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 30, 2023 10:27:20 GMT
My understanding is sachiasaurus, though big, had unusually slender teeth and narrow mandibular symphysis (basically a pointy snout). Two anatomical traits which both imply an aversion to larger bulkier struggling prey. I'm a big time pliosaur fan, but this might not be the guy. May have been a fish or squid specialist. Are they though? Seem perfectly fine to me lol. Also we are forgetting that orcas have pretty shitty teeth and jaws for their size. This match-up is a 12.3 ton pliosaur vs an 8 (arguably 9 ton) orca. Sahicasaurus wins handily. Say what you want about orcas, they are designed for tackling monumentally large animals and have all the equipment to do so. Proof is in the pudding of dead adult whales killed by orcas. IF it's true that Sachiasauurus was specialised on lesser game... that's a big deal. It means Sachiasaurus sees an orca and is like "I don't know what to do with this, my teeth might get knocked out, my jaw might break when it struggles in my mouth, this isn't my game". An orca meanwhile sees a Sachisaurus and is like "yeah, I can work with this". It could be like a maned wolf vs dhole. Yes the maned wolf is bigger, but it eats fruit and bugs and mice, it has no idea what to do with a dhole. The dhole meanwhile is like "well this is a very small and weak deer, no problem". Being equipped to handle bigger animals IS a very important detail. It's not confirmed that Sachiasaurus CAN'T or didn't kill large animals. Just saying hypothetically, if it's true it wasn't built to struggle with large burly animals that could be a problem. The orca definitely is built to struggle with large burly animals. I'd want to try and better understand what the implications of slender teeth, much fewer teeth, and a narrow mandibular symphysis compared to other pliosaurs actually means. I don't know, I'm speculating that MAYBE it means lesser prey. That could be a big deal. But I don't know. For some reason though it IS different to other pliosaurs. A somewhat unusual "odd man out". Why? Could be specialisation for smaller less hazardous prey, and IF it is... that's not good. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 16:00:37 GMT
Are they though? Seem perfectly fine to me lol. Also we are forgetting that orcas have pretty shitty teeth and jaws for their size. This match-up is a 12.3 ton pliosaur vs an 8 (arguably 9 ton) orca. Sahicasaurus wins handily. Say what you want about orcas, they are designed for tackling monumentally large animals and have all the equipment to do so. Proof is in the pudding of dead adult whales killed by orcas. IF it's true that Sachiasauurus was specialised on lesser game... that's a big deal. It means Sachiasaurus sees an orca and is like "I don't know what to do with this, my teeth might get knocked out, my jaw might break when it struggles in my mouth, this isn't my game". An orca meanwhile sees a Sachisaurus and is like "yeah, I can work with this". It could be like a maned wolf vs dhole. Yes the maned wolf is bigger, but it eats fruit and bugs and mice, it has no idea what to do with a dhole. The dhole meanwhile is like "well this is a very small and weak deer, no problem". Being equipped to handle bigger animals IS a very important detail. It's not confirmed that Sachiasaurus CAN'T or didn't kill large animals. Just saying hypothetically, if it's true it wasn't built to struggle with large burly animals that could be a problem. The orca definitely is built to struggle with large burly animals. I'd want to try and better understand what the implications of slender teeth, much fewer teeth, and a narrow mandibular symphysis compared to other pliosaurs actually means. I don't know, I'm speculating that MAYBE it means lesser prey. That could be a big deal. But I don't know. For some reason though it IS different to other pliosaurs. A somewhat unusual "odd man out". Why? Could be specialisation for smaller less hazardous prey, and IF it is... that's not good. Sahicasaurus requires more information. I'm not sure if it was a fish eater or not. Although it is like 4-5 tons heavier and still has superior jaws imo. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 30, 2023 16:56:40 GMT
I don't know why you think the orcas jaws are so pathetic-  Seem pretty staunch and their teeth are very robust too. The skulls of some pliosaurids are twice as long as those of orcas, so yeah that is more impressive, but they otherwise don't seem more robust. Even the robust ones. I can't find a sachiasaurus skull specifically, so here's both ends of pliosaurid skulls, a robust kronosaurus skull and a "slender" megacephalosaurus skull -   Not sure which the "Sachia" is closer to, but IF it was like the lower skull... even being twice as long as the orca skull I'd still consider it inferior. Kronosaurus is obviously a different story. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 17:07:45 GMT
I don't know why you think the orcas jaws are so pathetic- Seem pretty staunch and their teeth are very robust too. The skulls of some pliosaurids are twice as long as those of orcas, so yeah that is more impressive, but they otherwise don't seem more robust. Even the robust ones. I can't find a sachiasaurus skull specifically, so here's both ends of pliosaurid skulls, a robust kronosaurus skull and a "slender" megacephalosaurus skull - Not sure which the "Sachia" is closer to, but IF it was like the lower skull... even being twice as long as the orca skull I'd still consider it inferior. Kronosaurus is obviously a different story. "described Sachicasaurus (Figs. 1-3, MP111209-1, Barremian (Early Cretaceous) Columbia; estimated 10m in length, 2m skull length), a taxon they thought was a giant pliosaur related to Brauchauchenius (Fig." "They are the world's largest warm-blooded predator. Killer whales are black in color, with white chests and sides, and a white patch above their eyes. They typically range in size from 16 to 26 feet. Killer whale skull measures 860mm/33.9in."The holotype for Sahicasaurus (which is a sub-adult by the way) still has a skull over twice as long as the orca's, and has teeth 15% larger too. An adult would easily put the dolphin to shame. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 30, 2023 17:17:02 GMT
Where are you getting the 15% larger teeth from? I can't seem to find any info like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 17:32:55 GMT
Where are you getting the 15% larger teeth from? I can't seem to find any info like that. ("Figure 4B). It has a long root, with a smooth surface. Its enameled crown is distally fractured. The height of this tooth including its preserved portion of crown and its root is 300 mm; the diameter of the root, measured at the limit with the crown, is 90 mm."
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 30, 2023 18:16:49 GMT
Weird. Even the biggest most robust pliosaurs don't seem to have teeth much larger than orcas (to the eye). "15% larger" actually sounded pretty good for, say, Kronosaurus, when you make a size comparison based on max size skulls  I guess when wikipedia said "slender teeth" what they meant to say was "fucking huge teeth", and all my concerns were for nought. I could point out that they mention a long root, and orcas have practically no root it seems, but regardless even the diameter is much greater so... nothing to see here? False alarm, Sachia was a monstrosity with enormous teeth not slender at all. Just to prove I didn't pull that out of my butt- link |
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