Gigantopithecus vs Pleistocene jaguar

[Deleted]

Big orangutan vs big jaguar.


Hardcastle @hammerhead @ajay Bolushi lincoln

[Hardcastle]

Technically there are 3 extinct pleistocene Jaguars -

• Eurasian Jaguar (Panthera Gombaszoegensis aka Panthera Onca Toscana) 
• North American Jaguar (Panthera Onca Augusta)
• Patagonian Jaguar (Panthera Onca Mesembrina)

The jaguar subspecies that remains- Panthera Onca Onca (no longer divided into sub-species, considered monotypic despite some regional variation) are also pleistocene Jaguars, just one lucky enough to not go extinct.

Incidentally, it does seem like the surviving Jaguar is the smallest. The largest variety being those of the Pantanal region which weigh up to 130+ kg or 290 lbs, but average about 210 lbs  or 96 kg (for adult males). 

The Eurasian Jaguar is estimated to have weighed up to 200 kg or 440 lbs. The North American Pleistocene Jaguar aka "Giant Jaguar" is said to have possibly weighed up to 190 kg or 420 lbs. The Patagonian Jaguar, Onca Mesembrina, was possibly the largest of all, estimated to weigh up to 230 kgs or 500+ lbs, with evidence it largely focussed on tackling giant mylodon ground sloths weighing around 1000 kg or 2200 lbs.   

It's hard to get reliable guesstimates on Gigantopithecus size. Some suggest they "only" got up to maybe 600 lbs, others suggest maybe 1000 lbs plus... Either way, I think a giant pleistocene jaguar could possibly prey on them. Especially if they were really regularly killing much larger ground sloths. No I'm not saying a ground sloth and a giant ape are the same thing, but for the sake of a surprise ambush where the potential for self-defense is greatly reduced, there may not be a huge difference. I'd probably slightly favour a 1000+ lbs ape over even a 500 lbs pantherine in a face to face fight. 600 lbs ape? Probably have to go with the jag, just. Still insanely difficult. Not sure.

I'm also open to the possibility of all the estimates for the various extinct jaguars and ground sloths being off as well. It's possible gigantopithecus has been scrutinised with more care and brought down to reality while the others have not.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2023 14:06:40 GMT Hardcastle said:

Technically there are 3 extinct pleistocene Jaguars -

• Eurasian Jaguar (Panthera Gombaszoegensis aka Panthera Onca Toscana) 
• North American Jaguar (Panthera Onca Augusta)
• Patagonian Jaguar (Panthera Onca Mesembrina)

The jaguar subspecies that remains- Panthera Onca Onca (no longer divided into sub-species, considered monotypic despite some regional variation) are also pleistocene Jaguars, just one lucky enough to not go extinct.

Incidentally, it does seem like the surviving Jaguar is the smallest. The largest variety being those of the Pantanal region which weigh up to 130+ kg or 290 lbs, but average about 210 lbs  or 96 kg (for adult males). 

The Eurasian Jaguar is estimated to have weighed up to 200 kg or 440 lbs. The North American Pleistocene Jaguar aka "Giant Jaguar" is said to have possibly weighed up to 190 kg or 420 lbs. The Patagonian Jaguar, Onca Mesembrina, was possibly the largest of all, estimated to weigh up to 230 kgs or 500+ lbs, with evidence it largely focussed on tackling giant mylodon ground sloths weighing around 1000 kg or 2200 lbs.   

It's hard to get reliable guesstimates on Gigantopithecus size. Some suggest they "only" got up to maybe 600 lbs, others suggest maybe 1000 lbs plus... Either way, I think a giant pleistocene jaguar could possibly prey on them. Especially if they were really regularly killing much larger ground sloths. No I'm not saying a ground sloth and a giant ape are the same thing, but for the sake of a surprise ambush where the potential for self-defense is greatly reduced, there may not be a huge difference. I'd probably slightly favour a 1000+ lbs ape over even a 500 lbs pantherine in a face to face fight. 600 lbs ape? Probably have to go with the jag, just. Still insanely difficult. Not sure.

I'm also open to the possibility of all the estimates for the various extinct jaguars and ground sloths being off as well. It's possible gigantopithecus has been scrutinised with more care and brought down to reality while the others have not.

I still have now idea how a 9 ft tall ape could only weigh 300 kg MAX. Robert Wadlow was almost 9 ft and if I recall correctly was like 223 kg, he was skinny as hell lol. A well built ape that size should surpass 300 kg. I think it's more of a case of 9 ft probably being an overestimate for Gigantopithecus.

[Hardcastle]

I agree, I was a little shocked to see that combination of height and weight. I feel like it can't be right unless it was built like a spider monkey.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2023 16:32:22 GMT Hardcastle said:

I agree, I was a little shocked to see that combination of height and weight. I feel like it can't be right unless it was built like a spider monkey.

I was looking at some size comparisons. Someone called 'harry-the-fox' on Devianart made a great one. The ape looks a lot closer to 300 kg in his as opposed to others. He got help from that guy Blazze too - someone who estimated the weight and robusticity of Deinonychus.