Timberwolf vs cougar AT PARITY

[Hardcastle]

Have we dismissed the wolf too quickly?

This thought crossed my mind based on some size comparison discussion. At equal weights a dogo towers over a puma, and at equal weights a wolf towers over a dogo. Therefore, at equal weights a wolf would rather monumentally tower over a puma. To such an extent I think it would be presumed "a size mismatch" if ever captured on film. 

By my calculations, at parity (around 110 lbs), this matchup looks like this-




33" wolf
24" puma

Just to be fair, I think a max weight size comparison looks like this- 



Wolf 36" 140 lbs
Puma 30" 215 lbs

I am concerned with the stance of the puma in the max comparison, but it's the best pic of a bulky large male I could find. I tried to compensate by assuming it could stand up straight in the front a little, but possibly not enough, which would mean the second pic is actually "flattering" the max puma. If it's hindquarters are anything like it's real height, I am admittedly way off and it's actually being portrayed too big. 

Given all this, I don't think we've seen anything close to parity that was negative for the wolf. We have all seen the puma killing the wolf in the headlights or whatever, but it wasn't close to parity. If it was it would have looked like a tiny cat overcoming an enormous wolf. The puma seemed larger, and would be even larger than it seemed. In fact even the second image here might not be as bad as the size advantage for the puma in the actual encounter. 

I'm just saying I think wolf vs puma at parity is still open for debate. I never bothered arguing it, I just conceded victory to the puma readily, but if a wolf enthusiast was to argue pro-wolf I think they'd have reasonable grounds to dismiss the direct evidence. 

[Deleted]

Every cougar kill on a wolf was an ambush/much heavier cougar, FTR

[CoolJohnson]

Jan 28, 2023 15:41:55 GMT Hardcastle said:

By my calculations, at parity (around 110 lbs), this matchup looks like this-




33" wolf
24" puma

Just to be fair, I think a max weight size comparison looks like this- 



Wolf 36" 140 lbs
Puma 30" 215 lbs

 

I actually think the best way to compare two similar sized specimens would be to compare camera trap pictures.

[Hardcastle]

Worth looking at for sure, but if you don't know the weights of the individual animals in the camera trap pictures the problem would remain of mistakenly assuming animals that look the same size actually are the same size. A size comparison is something that can compliment camera trap images. So you can see the camera trap pictures "Ok so the look the same size" then refer to a size comparison and say "oh but if they look the same size then actually the puma is probably twice as large (or more)".

Unless we assume there's some massive mistake with the available data on the weights and measurements of the animals. 30 inches high is as tall as the biggest 200+ lbs pumas get, and 30 inches is as short as the smallest adult 80 lbs wolves get.

[CoolJohnson]

What I meant was if there is a known 110 pound Cougar and a known 110 pound Wolf living in the same national park, then there is a good chance they may have been captured by trap cameras walking in the same position or area.

This would be the best comparison of size in real life.

[Hardcastle]

Yes. That would be great.