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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 21:33:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 21:42:17 GMT
An APBT would clobber one of those fat sumo wrestlers. The Tosa picture I posted in the OP is actually a really really good Tosa, an ideal contender. It will likely outweigh the APBT but only by 10-20lbs, which may be too much for the APBT to be pushing around. The Tosa's skin is like chainmail, very hard to damage, never saw a Tosa get hurt by another dog. I seen a video of a Gull Dong chomping on a Tosa's neck for 2-3 minutes and then the Tosa got up and won without much if any blood on it. This would be a very long bloody war of attrition where the APBT can't damage the Tosa and the Tosa can't put away the APBT. There was a fight between 2 really good dogs, Tito vs Tano. Tito was an APBT and Tito won after an hour and 12 minutes but not before Tano mangled his entire face. Tano died because he bashed his head on the wall during a fight so his brain started bleeding. ''The Tosa did not die in the ring. The Tosa died after the fight. The reason of his death is said that he smashed his head to the wall of the ring during the fight, which 'caused a bleeding in his head.'' game-dog.com/index.php?threads/anyone-know-anything-about-this-dog.30438/Tano wasn't exactly the best of the best, really really good but he did not have the track record that Tito did. There are better Tosa dogs out there. They have quite the chance, Tano was if I recall 20lbs bigger than Tito and he fought for 1hr and 12min, a smaller, better Tosa could easily roll around with a gamebred APBT for a good bit longer than Tano. |
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Post by lincoln on Oct 31, 2022 1:55:44 GMT
Ah, the matchup I’ve been avoiding for so long, this is super close and could go either way, the Tosa is more powerful but the A.P.B.T is more game, it depends how long the fight lasts IMO i have heard about a fight where a Grand Champ A.P.B.T beat a Grand Champ Tosa but I heard it from a A.P.B.T guy so take it with a grain of salt |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2022 2:09:33 GMT
Ah, the matchup I’ve been avoiding for so long, this is super close and could go either way, the Tosa is more powerful but the A.P.B.T is more game, it depends how long the fight lasts IMO i have heard about a fight where a Grand Champ A.P.B.T beat a Grand Champ Tosa but I heard it from a A.P.B.T guy so take it with a grain of salt That was Tito v Tano iirc, but if it was a Gr Ch sumo Tosa then it's worthless. I seen something about a Plumber's APBT beating the shit out of one of those. |
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Musth
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Post by Musth on May 29, 2023 21:25:20 GMT
An APBT would clobber one of those fat sumo wrestlers. The Tosa picture I posted in the OP is actually a really really good Tosa, an ideal contender. It will likely outweigh the APBT but only by 10-20lbs, which may be too much for the APBT to be pushing around. The Tosa's skin is like chainmail, very hard to damage, never saw a Tosa get hurt by another dog. I seen a video of a Gull Dong chomping on a Tosa's neck for 2-3 minutes and then the Tosa got up and won without much if any blood on it. This would be a very long bloody war of attrition where the APBT can't damage the Tosa and the Tosa can't put away the APBT. There was a fight between 2 really good dogs, Tito vs Tano. Tito was an APBT and Tito won after an hour and 12 minutes but not before Tano mangled his entire face. Tano died because he bashed his head on the wall during a fight so his brain started bleeding. ''The Tosa did not die in the ring. The Tosa died after the fight. The reason of his death is said that he smashed his head to the wall of the ring during the fight, which 'caused a bleeding in his head.'' game-dog.com/index.php?threads/anyone-know-anything-about-this-dog.30438/Tano wasn't exactly the best of the best, really really good but he did not have the track record that Tito did. There are better Tosa dogs out there. They have quite the chance, Tano was if I recall 20lbs bigger than Tito and he fought for 1hr and 12min, a smaller, better Tosa could easily roll around with a gamebred APBT for a good bit longer than Tano. Tano wasn’t considered a good tosa. He was a Romanian show bred tosa. He had 10 wins but it was against random backyard dogs. Not out of Japan or Korean stock(where the best tosa are). Honestly any serious dog man over seas will tell you the Tosa is the best fight dog in the world(the best bully kutta are up there too). Basically the only dogs ever matched in the states or North America is apbt. No one has tosa, volkodav, bully kutta, in the states… hince why you ask everyone from the states who is the best fight dog breed they will always answer apbt due to pride. The one of the first men to ever to test, roll, or fight the tosa vs apbt, was a duel citizen Japanese American. He had tosa in Japan, and apbt in America. He brought the Tosa over to America to match. Considered “historical thing” by my friend. The first Tosa used for dogfighting in America. The apbt were no match for the tosa… too small, would get over powered quickly. In fact my friend asked him why he crossbred the apbt and Tosa he said the pure apbt didn’t stand a chance against the mix dogs. This was a very serious dogmen. Not an internet web guy. Or a guy with a huge ego thinking he has the best breed or dog in the world like I see many other claim…. Honestly this is all based off of serious dogmen who have had experience in both breeds. Also my “friend” has had both Mayday apbt and Tosa(primarily a tosa man). I asked him if he rolled his apbt and tosa together. He just laughed at me and told me I’m crazy… come on man the tosa would kill that dog…. The apbt is way to small it will die quickly…. I have also read accounts where the Tosa was bested by the apbt other than Tito vs Tano. A apbt fancier had a dog and was living in Japan at the time. He finally brought his apbt “buster” over to Japan. He rolled it a few times against tosa and claimed the apbt was far too much for the tosa(these weren’t official matches just rolls). But who knows of the quality of the dogs. The first tosa they used was a 13 year old male… which is quite old for a Tosa. The apbt was just a young dog as well. What is also interesting I asked why doesn’t he cross the apbt x tosa(my friend dogmen). He says the cross with fight like it’s in a lighter weight class, gassing itself out. Not much different than humans heavyweights fight a different style then a flyweight or even a lightweight. No heavyweight combat athlete is gonna move like Lomoachnko. Natural Heavyweight dogs are the best at fighting for absolute weight. All of this information is what I was told by lifetime dogmen. The apbt is capable in my opinion beating any dog on the planet regardless of size. But best vs best they are too small imo. It’s like putting khabib nurmagomedov vs Jon Jones. Japanese American rolling his dogs, the first to ever fight Tosa dogs in US soil. This was around late 90’s.   |
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Post by Hardcastle on May 29, 2023 21:58:30 GMT
Musth That makes a lot of sense tbh. I feel like I have to reserve reverence for the APBT, but I do struggle sometimes with imagining an APBT beating a large capable dog that actually knows how to finish. I've seen apbts win against big dogs who give up after dominating for a while, but just a little more killer instinct and it seems it wouldn't have worked out for the apbt at all. When the size gap is too much, it's just very very hard to imagine. My own neo x nearly killed a very shredded and fit nasty SBT with extreme ease, it was going to be over in seconds if my dad didn't dive between them and get chewed up for his troubles, the SBT still nearly died in the aftermath. This SBT, fawn with a black mask, happened to weigh 55 lbs exactly, so it was an unusually big and strong SBT and for all intents and purposes it was a very similar animal to an apbt. The difference would have only been found out with testing for deep gameness and stamina, but none of that was going to be a factor in this fight, it was just going to have it's head crushed within the first 2 minutes. It was simply too small. That neo x was built similar to a tosa. There was also a case in the news here where a bull arab attacked two sbts, killing one and critically injuring the other. Hunting dog mauls pet staffy to death on the gold coast.
I have seen bull terriers smash bigger dogs too, but if the bigger dog has some serious edge to it, just seems like the size quickly becomes a major factor and more so than the pitbull proponents (myself one of them) let on. I think a big apbt would be different, I think an often forgotten contender for best open weight fighting dog would be the random large apbts that get thrown out. Not talking "XL bullies" or any such BS, I mean from serious game dog lines occassionally you have these big and tall apbts that push up around 85 - 90 lbs that just randomly appear in serious litters from time to time, only to end up as pets or maybe sent to boar hunters. I think they'd be way way better contenders to fight tosas and LGDs, even if they are lacking in some departments compared to the 55 lbsers, even if they'd lose to the 50 lbsers, they might be better for taking on bigger dogs.
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Musth
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Post by Musth on May 29, 2023 22:58:03 GMT
Musth That makes a lot of sense tbh. I feel like I have to reserve reverence for the APBT, but I do struggle sometimes with imagining an APBT beating a large capable dog that actually knows how to finish. I've seen apbts win against big dogs who give up after dominating for a while, but just a little more killer instinct and it seems it wouldn't have worked out for the apbt at all. When the size gap is too much, it's just very very hard to imagine. My own neo x nearly killed a very shredded and fit nasty SBT with extreme ease, it was going to be over in seconds if my dad didn't dive between them and get chewed up for his troubles, the SBT still nearly died in the aftermath. This SBT, fawn with a black mask, happened to weigh 55 lbs exactly, so it was an unusually big and strong SBT and for all intents and purposes it was a very similar animal to an apbt. The difference would have only been found out with testing for deep gameness and stamina, but none of that was going to be a factor in this fight, it was just going to have it's head crushed within the first 2 minutes. It was simply too small. That neo x was built similar to a tosa. There was also a case in the news here where a bull arab attacked two sbts, killing one and critically injuring the other. Hunting dog mauls pet staffy to death on the gold coast.
I have seen bull terriers smash bigger dogs too, but if the bigger dog has some serious edge to it, just seems like the size quickly becomes a major factor and more so than the pitbull proponents (myself one of them) let on. I think a big apbt would be different, I think an often forgotten contender for best open weight fighting dog would be the random large apbts that get thrown out. Not talking "XL bullies" or any such BS, I mean from serious game dog lines occassionally you have these big and tall apbts that push up around 85 - 90 lbs that just randomly appear in serious litters from time to time, only to end up as pets or maybe sent to boar hunters. I think they'd be way way better contenders to fight tosas and LGDs, even if they are lacking in some departments compared to the 55 lbsers, even if they'd lose to the 50 lbsers, they might be better for taking on bigger dogs. I would pretty much agree. But my friend had a apbt from mayday lines and his apbt reached 83lbs…. And its brother fought a tosa and lost(and died after the match). Although that doesn’t mean a 80lbs apbt or bull and terriers can’t be serious contenders, that’s just one case. Actually now that I think about it there is a fad in China now to create a Jubi Pitbull. It’s basically a giant and kind of fat apbt. It’s supposed to be stronger than regular apbt apparently. They match them against BK and Tosa and the tosa and BK still get the better of them. However apbt win against the giant Jubi pit occasionally as well. |
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Post by Bolushi on May 29, 2023 23:13:14 GMT
An APBT would clobber one of those fat sumo wrestlers. The Tosa picture I posted in the OP is actually a really really good Tosa, an ideal contender. It will likely outweigh the APBT but only by 10-20lbs, which may be too much for the APBT to be pushing around. The Tosa's skin is like chainmail, very hard to damage, never saw a Tosa get hurt by another dog. I seen a video of a Gull Dong chomping on a Tosa's neck for 2-3 minutes and then the Tosa got up and won without much if any blood on it. This would be a very long bloody war of attrition where the APBT can't damage the Tosa and the Tosa can't put away the APBT. There was a fight between 2 really good dogs, Tito vs Tano. Tito was an APBT and Tito won after an hour and 12 minutes but not before Tano mangled his entire face. Tano died because he bashed his head on the wall during a fight so his brain started bleeding. ''The Tosa did not die in the ring. The Tosa died after the fight. The reason of his death is said that he smashed his head to the wall of the ring during the fight, which 'caused a bleeding in his head.'' game-dog.com/index.php?threads/anyone-know-anything-about-this-dog.30438/Tano wasn't exactly the best of the best, really really good but he did not have the track record that Tito did. There are better Tosa dogs out there. They have quite the chance, Tano was if I recall 20lbs bigger than Tito and he fought for 1hr and 12min, a smaller, better Tosa could easily roll around with a gamebred APBT for a good bit longer than Tano. Tano wasn’t considered a good tosa. He was a Romanian show bred tosa. He had 10 wins but it was against random backyard dogs. Not out of Japan or Korean stock(where the best tosa are). Honestly any serious dog man over seas will tell you the Tosa is the best fight dog in the world(the best bully kutta are up there too). Basically the only dogs ever matched in the states or North America is apbt. No one has tosa, volkodav, bully kutta, in the states… hince why you ask everyone from the states who is the best fight dog breed they will always answer apbt due to pride. The one of the first men to ever to test, roll, or fight the tosa vs apbt, was a duel citizen Japanese American. He had tosa in Japan, and apbt in America. He brought the Tosa over to America to match. Considered “historical thing” by my friend. The first Tosa used for dogfighting in America. The apbt were no match for the tosa… too small, would get over powered quickly. In fact my friend asked him why he crossbred the apbt and Tosa he said the pure apbt didn’t stand a chance against the mix dogs. This was a very serious dogmen. Not an internet web guy. Or a guy with a huge ego thinking he has the best breed or dog in the world like I see many other claim…. Honestly this is all based off of serious dogmen who have had experience in both breeds. Also my “friend” has had both Mayday apbt and Tosa(primarily a tosa man). I asked him if he rolled his apbt and tosa together. He just laughed at me and told me I’m crazy… come on man the tosa would kill that dog…. The apbt is way to small it will die quickly…. I have also read accounts where the Tosa was bested by the apbt other than Tito vs Tano. A apbt fancier had a dog and was living in Japan at the time. He finally brought his apbt “buster” over to Japan. He rolled it a few times against tosa and claimed the apbt was far too much for the tosa(these weren’t official matches just rolls). But who knows of the quality of the dogs. The first tosa they used was a 13 year old male… which is quite old for a Tosa. The apbt was just a young dog as well. What is also interesting I asked why doesn’t he cross the apbt x tosa(my friend dogmen). He says the cross with fight like it’s in a lighter weight class, gassing itself out. Not much different than humans heavyweights fight a different style then a flyweight or even a lightweight. No heavyweight combat athlete is gonna move like Lomoachnko. Natural Heavyweight dogs are the best at fighting for absolute weight. All of this information is what I was told by lifetime dogmen. The apbt is capable in my opinion beating any dog on the planet regardless of size. But best vs best they are too small imo. It’s like putting khabib nurmagomedov vs Jon Jones. Japanese American rolling his dogs, the first to ever fight Tosa dogs in US soil. This was around late 90’s. View AttachmentView Attachment Agree with this. I don't claim much authority on dog fighting at all. |
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Post by Hardcastle on May 29, 2023 23:20:51 GMT
I have zero faith in the big fat pitbulls, the XL bully style of pits, even if they are "stronger" (and I could easily believe that) they would be practically useless. A dog still has to have that lean rangey build of an athlete to perform. So a 90 lbs pitbull but 90 lbs because it's like 27 inches tall, not because it's bulky. The big pitbulls I have in mind are more like working dogos/bull arabs in build. An 83 lbs mayday style pitbull losing to a tosa is significant, because that's pretty much what I have in mind, but yeah like you said just one case. I could also be wrong, tosas could still just be too much, but my hunch is tall 90 lbs pitbulls could put in decent work against some of the larger dogs.
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Post by Hardcastle on May 29, 2023 23:21:14 GMT
Tano wasn’t considered a good tosa. He was a Romanian show bred tosa. He had 10 wins but it was against random backyard dogs. Not out of Japan or Korean stock(where the best tosa are). Honestly any serious dog man over seas will tell you the Tosa is the best fight dog in the world(the best bully kutta are up there too). Basically the only dogs ever matched in the states or North America is apbt. No one has tosa, volkodav, bully kutta, in the states… hince why you ask everyone from the states who is the best fight dog breed they will always answer apbt due to pride. The one of the first men to ever to test, roll, or fight the tosa vs apbt, was a duel citizen Japanese American. He had tosa in Japan, and apbt in America. He brought the Tosa over to America to match. Considered “historical thing” by my friend. The first Tosa used for dogfighting in America. The apbt were no match for the tosa… too small, would get over powered quickly. In fact my friend asked him why he crossbred the apbt and Tosa he said the pure apbt didn’t stand a chance against the mix dogs. This was a very serious dogmen. Not an internet web guy. Or a guy with a huge ego thinking he has the best breed or dog in the world like I see many other claim…. Honestly this is all based off of serious dogmen who have had experience in both breeds. Also my “friend” has had both Mayday apbt and Tosa(primarily a tosa man). I asked him if he rolled his apbt and tosa together. He just laughed at me and told me I’m crazy… come on man the tosa would kill that dog…. The apbt is way to small it will die quickly…. I have also read accounts where the Tosa was bested by the apbt other than Tito vs Tano. A apbt fancier had a dog and was living in Japan at the time. He finally brought his apbt “buster” over to Japan. He rolled it a few times against tosa and claimed the apbt was far too much for the tosa(these weren’t official matches just rolls). But who knows of the quality of the dogs. The first tosa they used was a 13 year old male… which is quite old for a Tosa. The apbt was just a young dog as well. What is also interesting I asked why doesn’t he cross the apbt x tosa(my friend dogmen). He says the cross with fight like it’s in a lighter weight class, gassing itself out. Not much different than humans heavyweights fight a different style then a flyweight or even a lightweight. No heavyweight combat athlete is gonna move like Lomoachnko. Natural Heavyweight dogs are the best at fighting for absolute weight. All of this information is what I was told by lifetime dogmen. The apbt is capable in my opinion beating any dog on the planet regardless of size. But best vs best they are too small imo. It’s like putting khabib nurmagomedov vs Jon Jones. Japanese American rolling his dogs, the first to ever fight Tosa dogs in US soil. This was around late 90’s. View AttachmentView Attachment Agree with this. I don't claim much authority on dog fighting at all. Me neither, tbh. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 23:21:55 GMT
Is it just me or do APBT’s seem overrated? Seen so many people arguing for them but not any other. Or maybe thats just because the APBT is also becoming popular as a pet.
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Musth
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Post by Musth on May 29, 2023 23:32:27 GMT
Is it just me or do APBT’s seem overrated? Seen so many people arguing for them but not any other. Or maybe thats just because the APBT is also becoming popular as a pet. Wouldn’t say overrated, but lost people in North America that’s all they know. Especially for fight dogs. Honestly an APBT is an elite dog and fight dog… Just looked over gamedog and everyone says only the apbt is the game dog alive…. Tosa BK, tosaxapbt, Jubi pitbull are game as well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 23:35:15 GMT
Is it just me or do APBT’s seem overrated? Seen so many people arguing for them but not any other. Or maybe thats just because the APBT is also becoming popular as a pet. Wouldn’t say overrated, but lost people in North America that’s all they know. Especially for fight dogs. Honestly an APBT is an elite dog and fight dog… I don’t disagree their capability, the APBT is the original dog for that. But how they’re viewed is different. Seen many APBT owners just blatantly believe their dogs can beat anything, and not just like another dog or a cougar. No. I mean they are talking about lions. I believe certain dogs could but not the APBT. |
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Post by Hardcastle on May 29, 2023 23:38:43 GMT
Is it just me or do APBT’s seem overrated? Seen so many people arguing for them but not any other. Or maybe thats just because the APBT is also becoming popular as a pet. The popularity of the pitbull as a pet has it taking major knocks to its reputation which really aren't deserved. Everyone has a story of a pitbull getting beaten up by a husky or a pet cat or something (including me) and then thinks they aren't shit. Being a wussy pet is still possible for all animals, including lions, tigers and pitbulls. At the same time it does probably get a little overrated at times, I think owing to the fact people have genuinely seen them pull off incredible feats and it can start to seem like there are no limits to their capabilities. I talked about George P Sanderson and his 40 lbs bull terriers which he saw lug buffalo and gaur, beat up bears and leopards and even lug an elephant, he understandably was of the opinion they were the most bad ass animal in existence, and in some ways they are, but seeing stuff like this can make some dog men maybe get a bit carried away, especially when they start talking about the american pit bullterrier like it's a unique pokemon totally different to all other dogs and infused with magic pixie dust, this isn't realistic. I believe it's entirely possible to "recreate" a pitbull using other breeds. I have seen boxer x ebts which I believe lack nothing compared to a good apbt. But a fit, lean, psychologically switched-on bull terrier is an incredible animal that stands out among basically all others for it's lbs for lbs fighting prowess. |
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Musth
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Post by Musth on May 30, 2023 0:02:31 GMT
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