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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 20:47:43 GMT
The Chimpanzee was badly injured and could not keep up with them for a long time till his death. Also, all the Chimpanzees and monkeys saved his booty since he was found when the author was "attracted by tremendous alarm calls of the chimpanzees and all the monkeys in the area." So why does that account matter but not the others? |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 17, 2023 20:52:02 GMT
The Chimpanzee was badly injured and could not keep up with them for a long time till his death. Also, all the Chimpanzees and monkeys saved his booty since he was found when the author was "attracted by tremendous alarm calls of the chimpanzees and all the monkeys in the area." So why does that account matter but not the others? Cause the Chimp actually lost even when the top arrived. Like this, but the Leopard probably ran away that time since the author also mentioned that he had arrived to the place. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:24:13 GMT
So why does that account matter but not the others? Cause the Chimp actually lost even when the top arrived. Like this, but the Leopard probably ran away that time since the author also mentioned that he had arrived to the place. And vast majority of the time leopards actually lose even when they had an ambush. Prey cannot survive in a predator's ecosystem unless it has the combat advantage/it's faster/it breeds faster. Considering chimps are neither of those last 2, fighting is their defense. And fighting works. In a fight to the death, perhaps a leopard should be favored, but in whatever fight they have the chimp should beat off the leopard. When the leopard cums the chimpanzee rips out its throat. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 17, 2023 23:11:35 GMT
Cause the Chimp actually lost even when the top arrived. Like this, but the Leopard probably ran away that time since the author also mentioned that he had arrived to the place. And vast majority of the time leopards actually lose even when they had an ambush. Prey cannot survive in a predator's ecosystem unless it has the combat advantage/it's faster/it breeds faster. Considering chimps are neither of those last 2, fighting is their defense. And fighting works. In a fight to the death, perhaps a leopard should be favored, but in whatever fight they have the chimp should beat off the leopard. When the leopard cums the chimpanzee rips out its throat.A Chimp can drive temporarily drive off a Leopard along with group aid bit will still lose in a fight to death. Keep in mind your Chimp Falstaff was injured that he still need his wounds tended by the Chimps. If they were not there he would have most likely died had they not arrived on time. He still deteroiated under their care and perished. Also you ignore the Chimp named Salome that was killed by a Leopard when she did not have a group to help her.  The Chimp may have been a female around 32-38 kg but the Leopard was also a 32-34 kg specimen. This means that a 50-70 kg Indian male would beat Chimpanzee males. Also, the Leopard actually went for a chest bite to kill the Ape. If the Chimp is belligerent then I do not see what is stopping the Leopard from resorting to that method. In the end, my focus is who wins in the fight to the death. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 23:14:27 GMT
And vast majority of the time leopards actually lose even when they had an ambush. Prey cannot survive in a predator's ecosystem unless it has the combat advantage/it's faster/it breeds faster. Considering chimps are neither of those last 2, fighting is their defense. And fighting works. In a fight to the death, perhaps a leopard should be favored, but in whatever fight they have the chimp should beat off the leopard. When the leopard cums the chimpanzee rips out its throat.A Chimp can drive temporarily drive off a Leopard along with group aid bit will still lose in a fight to death. Keep in mind your Chimp Falstaff was injured that he still need his wounds tended by the Chimps. If they were not there he would have most likely died had they not arrived on time. He still deteroiated under their care and perished. Also you ignore the Chimp named Salome that was killed by a Leopard when she did not have a group to help her. The Chimp may have been a female around 32-38 kg but the Leopard was also a 32-34 kg specimen. This means that a 50-70 kg Indian male would beat Chimpanzee males. Also, the Leopard actually went for a chest bite to kill the Ape. If the Chimp is belligerent then I do not see what is stopping the Leopard from resorting to that method. In the end, my focus is who wins in the fight to the death. I know female chimps lose, I never said they didn't. I am saying a dominant adult male chimp should win, and if a leopard gets outfought every time it attacks a dominant male chimp then perhaps it will lose in a fight to the death. Female chimps are bad in more ways than just size, imagine a 150lb man and 150lb woman both fighting a 150lb assassin. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 17, 2023 23:37:56 GMT
A Chimp can drive temporarily drive off a Leopard along with group aid bit will still lose in a fight to death. Keep in mind your Chimp Falstaff was injured that he still need his wounds tended by the Chimps. If they were not there he would have most likely died had they not arrived on time. He still deteroiated under their care and perished. Also you ignore the Chimp named Salome that was killed by a Leopard when she did not have a group to help her. The Chimp may have been a female around 32-38 kg but the Leopard was also a 32-34 kg specimen. This means that a 50-70 kg Indian male would beat Chimpanzee males. Also, the Leopard actually went for a chest bite to kill the Ape. If the Chimp is belligerent then I do not see what is stopping the Leopard from resorting to that method. In the end, my focus is who wins in the fight to the death. I know female chimps lose, I never said they didn't. I am saying a dominant adult male chimp should win, and if a leopard gets outfought every time it attacks a dominant male chimp then perhaps it will lose in a fight to the death. Female chimps are bad in more ways than just size, imagine a 150lb man and 150lb woman both fighting a 150lb assassin. The adult Chimp Falstaff was badly wounded to the fact that he still needed wound tending even after the attack, and later deteroiated to the point of not being able to keep up with the gang.This indicates that a Chimp would be crippled if its team cannot come any sooner. Briefly fending off a Leopard won't help if the Leopard is desparate or hungry. For example, a Boar can actually kill a Leopard yet a determined Leopard will take time and effort to destroy the Boar. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 23:42:48 GMT
I know female chimps lose, I never said they didn't. I am saying a dominant adult male chimp should win, and if a leopard gets outfought every time it attacks a dominant male chimp then perhaps it will lose in a fight to the death. Female chimps are bad in more ways than just size, imagine a 150lb man and 150lb woman both fighting a 150lb assassin. The adult Chimp Falstaff was badly wounded to the fact that he still needed wound tending even after the attack, and later deteroiated to the point of not being able to keep up with the gang.This indicates that a Chimp would be crippled if its team cannot come any sooner. Briefly fending off a Leopard won't help if the Leopard is desparate or hungry. For example, a Boar can actually kill a Leopard yet a determined Leopard will take time and effort to destroy the Boar. Yes but he did not die from the initial attack. Do you think they would fight for 2 months? African and Indian leopards do not prey on prime male boars, Persian leopards might sometimes but usually fail. They prey on compromised boars. A prime boar smashes leopard easily, or a big mean sow. They just need to be locked in a cage for the leopard to die. |
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Post by Methane on Jan 18, 2023 0:06:50 GMT
Cause the Chimp actually lost even when the top arrived. Like this, but the Leopard probably ran away that time since the author also mentioned that he had arrived to the place. And vast majority of the time leopards actually lose even when they had an ambush. Prey cannot survive in a predator's ecosystem unless it has the combat advantage/it's faster/it breeds faster. Considering chimps are neither of those last 2, fighting is their defense. And fighting works. In a fight to the death, perhaps a leopard should be favored, but in whatever fight they have the chimp should beat off the leopard. When the leopard cums the chimpanzee rips out its throat.Well, chimps do have a great defense against their predators; they travel and work together in large and organized troops, compared to leopards, who are usually solitary hunters. I think even some of your sources might show that: -Example 1 shows two chimps scaring off a leopard. -Example 2 shows the leopards attacking a group of chimps, pointed out by the article- The fragmentary nature of these observations does not enable us to explain why leopards should attack chimpanzees when they are in groups and apparently able to defend themselves.
-Example 3 shows the leopard being scared off by multiple chimps rushing in to the rescue. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 0:15:37 GMT
And vast majority of the time leopards actually lose even when they had an ambush. Prey cannot survive in a predator's ecosystem unless it has the combat advantage/it's faster/it breeds faster. Considering chimps are neither of those last 2, fighting is their defense. And fighting works. In a fight to the death, perhaps a leopard should be favored, but in whatever fight they have the chimp should beat off the leopard. When the leopard cums the chimpanzee rips out its throat.Well, chimps do have a great defense against their predators; they travel and work together in large and organized troops, compared to leopards, who are usually solitary hunters. I think even some of your sources might show that: -Example 1 shows two chimps scaring off a leopard. -Example 2 shows the leopards attacking a group of chimps, pointed out by the article- The fragmentary nature of these observations does not enable us to explain why leopards should attack chimpanzees when they are in groups and apparently able to defend themselves.
-Example 3 shows the leopard being scared off by multiple chimps rushing in to the rescue. That's neither here nor there because ambushing a male chimp and practically never succeeding is 1v1 and skewered in the leopard's favor. If the leopard could just kill an adult whenever it lashed out, there is no way they would persecute the leopard. 2 chimps should be doable, after all if the leopard grapples down and killed one it can kill the other considering if it gets the upperhand in any significant way the chimpanzee will just die. But nope, leopards cannot succeed, they cannot succeed face to face against females 99% of the time. Male chimps go wherever they please no matter how many there are, without a care in the world about a leopard. You'd think they'd be afraid and not venture into the forest alone but nope, they're confident. I'll take the chimp's word for it. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 18, 2023 0:55:09 GMT
The adult Chimp Falstaff was badly wounded to the fact that he still needed wound tending even after the attack, and later deteroiated to the point of not being able to keep up with the gang.This indicates that a Chimp would be crippled if its team cannot come any sooner. Briefly fending off a Leopard won't help if the Leopard is desparate or hungry. For example, a Boar can actually kill a Leopard yet a determined Leopard will take time and effort to destroy the Boar. Yes but he did not die from the initial attack. Do you think they would fight for 2 months? African and Indian leopards do not prey on prime male boars, Persian leopards might sometimes but usually fail. They prey on compromised boars. A prime boar smashes leopard easily, or a big mean sow. They just need to be locked in a cage for the leopard to die. He would be dead and Leopard food if his group did not com on time. Yes, and a Leopard can still kill them. A Leopard can kill something far more powerful than a goofy Chimp. Also Indian Leopards do prey on adult Boars on a few occasions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 1:38:14 GMT
Yes but he did not die from the initial attack. Do you think they would fight for 2 months? African and Indian leopards do not prey on prime male boars, Persian leopards might sometimes but usually fail. They prey on compromised boars. A prime boar smashes leopard easily, or a big mean sow. They just need to be locked in a cage for the leopard to die. He would be dead and Leopard food if his group did not com on time. Yes, and a Leopard can still kill them. A Leopard can kill something far more powerful than a goofy Chimp. Also Indian Leopards do prey on adult Boars on a few occasions. Did you just not read at all? An adult boar sure, a prime male boar no. |
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Post by Methane on Jan 18, 2023 3:56:09 GMT
Well, chimps do have a great defense against their predators; they travel and work together in large and organized troops, compared to leopards, who are usually solitary hunters. I think even some of your sources might show that: -Example 1 shows two chimps scaring off a leopard. -Example 2 shows the leopards attacking a group of chimps, pointed out by the article- The fragmentary nature of these observations does not enable us to explain why leopards should attack chimpanzees when they are in groups and apparently able to defend themselves.
-Example 3 shows the leopard being scared off by multiple chimps rushing in to the rescue. That's neither here nor there because ambushing a male chimp and practically never succeeding is 1v1 and skewered in the leopard's favor. If the leopard could just kill an adult whenever it lashed out, there is no way they would persecute the leopard. 2 chimps should be doable, after all if the leopard grapples down and killed one it can kill the other considering if it gets the upperhand in any significant way the chimpanzee will just die. But nope, leopards cannot succeed, they cannot succeed face to face against females 99% of the time. Male chimps go wherever they please no matter how many there are, without a care in the world about a leopard. You'd think they'd be afraid and not venture into the forest alone but nope, they're confident. I'll take the chimp's word for it.
Do we have accounts of chimps fending off leopards by themselves? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 4:11:02 GMT
That's neither here nor there because ambushing a male chimp and practically never succeeding is 1v1 and skewered in the leopard's favor. If the leopard could just kill an adult whenever it lashed out, there is no way they would persecute the leopard. 2 chimps should be doable, after all if the leopard grapples down and killed one it can kill the other considering if it gets the upperhand in any significant way the chimpanzee will just die. But nope, leopards cannot succeed, they cannot succeed face to face against females 99% of the time. Male chimps go wherever they please no matter how many there are, without a care in the world about a leopard. You'd think they'd be afraid and not venture into the forest alone but nope, they're confident. I'll take the chimp's word for it.
Do we have accounts of chimps fending off leopards by themselves? Based on the instances of lone baboons and mandrills persecuting leopards, I would suggest that helps us come to the logical conclusion that they can tussle with a leopard and ''win'' the fight by outfighting the leopard and making it flee. I see no reason a dominant male chimp cannot achieve the same, and they definitely do. If you read through predation accounts, kills on dominant male chimps are far and few in between. This means they nearly always fend off leopards when attacked. Leopards attacked youngsters and females, dominant males don't have much to worry about. Check this out: ''Hera, who was attacked presumably when away from the group, seemed to have been less lucky: when she reappeared, her 2-year old son was missing. She had certainly tried to rescue him at the cost of 18 fresh wounds, of which 13 were on her head, in the ensuring battle. However, since the infant was so small, the leopard certainly killed him instantly and was able to carry him off and her rescue came too late.'' If females can do it usually, a male can do it just about every time. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 18, 2023 6:42:35 GMT
I don't think a leopard could kill a chimp easily by lashing out. If the leopard engages with one chimp, the other one is going to be on it immediately, biting and grabbing at whatever it can reach. Could it kill two chimps? That's a strong maybe at best. But skittish wild animals aren't bold, they're always inclined toward the path of least resistance, and aren't likely to risk a dangerous confrontation, even one they might have a shot at winning.
Do we have accounts of chimps fending off leopards by themselves? Based on the instances of lone baboons and mandrills persecuting leopards, I would suggest that helps us come to the logical conclusion that they can tussle with a leopard and ''win'' the fight by outfighting the leopard and making it flee. I see no reason a dominant male chimp cannot achieve the same, and they definitely do. If you read through predation accounts, kills on dominant male chimps are far and few in between. This means they nearly always fend off leopards when attacked. Leopards attacked youngsters and females, dominant males don't have much to worry about. Check this out: ''Hera, who was attacked presumably when away from the group, seemed to have been less lucky: when she reappeared, her 2-year old son was missing. She had certainly tried to rescue him at the cost of 18 fresh wounds, of which 13 were on her head, in the ensuring battle. However, since the infant was so small, the leopard certainly killed him instantly and was able to carry him off and her rescue came too late.'' If females can do it usually, a male can do it just about every time. The Leopard was more interested in the baby, so the Chimp could not do much about that. They can still kill an adult male Boar, which is far more dangerous than a silly Chimp. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 6:49:04 GMT
Based on the instances of lone baboons and mandrills persecuting leopards, I would suggest that helps us come to the logical conclusion that they can tussle with a leopard and ''win'' the fight by outfighting the leopard and making it flee. I see no reason a dominant male chimp cannot achieve the same, and they definitely do. If you read through predation accounts, kills on dominant male chimps are far and few in between. This means they nearly always fend off leopards when attacked. Leopards attacked youngsters and females, dominant males don't have much to worry about. Check this out: ''Hera, who was attacked presumably when away from the group, seemed to have been less lucky: when she reappeared, her 2-year old son was missing. She had certainly tried to rescue him at the cost of 18 fresh wounds, of which 13 were on her head, in the ensuring battle. However, since the infant was so small, the leopard certainly killed him instantly and was able to carry him off and her rescue came too late.'' If females can do it usually, a male can do it just about every time. The Leopard was more interested in the baby, so the Chimp could not do much about that. They can still kill an adult male Boar, which is far more dangerous than a silly Chimp. There are many stages of boar development, and all the adult males killed are likely subpar in some way or another. Yes, it was interested in the baby, but it also attacked the mother who fought it off. Hence why the leopard did not capitalize off of what should be a free double kill. |
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