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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 12:51:01 GMT
 Common Eland Ht: 62" Wt: 2072 lbs vs  Alaskan Moose Ht: 78" Wt: 1800 lbs |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 13:33:22 GMT
I have a confession to make, I made this matchup, mostly to monitor and laugh at the idiotic carnivora thread here- Carnivora - Common Eland vs Alaskan MooseThe bullshit therein is driving me nuts. Argue that the Eland wins, I wouldn't necessarily be triggered, or hell I don't even know if I disagree ... but they're actually arguing that the horn is inherently a more deadly weapon than the antler. This is the height of sheer unadulterated ignorance. As someone who has held horns and antlers in my hands, this is beyond fucking insane. One is a shell of plastic-like keratin over vulnerable flesh. Antlers are SOLID BONE. They are DEFINITELY better weapons. Literally a 99 in weapon potential vs a 45. That fact is so far beyond any debate, I can't even ... ughh... But, actually, I have been one of the main guys arguing cervids are weirdly shit at fighting predators and kind of suck and don't use their antlers properly and etc etc. It's just specifically the antler vs Horn debate that makes me want to light a hobo on fire in sheer murderous rage. They're even demonstrating human weapons made of antler vs human weapons made of horn, it's totally nuts. It's like arguing a sword with a steel blade is worse than a sword with a blade made of Lego. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 16:00:59 GMT
I have a confession to make, I made this matchup, mostly to monitor and laugh at the idiotic carnivora thread here- Carnivora - Common Eland vs Alaskan MooseThe bullshit therein is driving me nuts. Argue that the Eland wins, I wouldn't necessarily be triggered, or hell I don't even know if I disagree ... but they're actually arguing that the horn is inherently a more deadly weapon than the antler. This is the height of sheer unadulterated ignorance. As someone who has held horns and antlers in my hands, this is beyond fucking insane. One is a shell of plastic-like keratin over vulnerable flesh. Antlers are SOLID BONE. They are DEFINITELY better weapons. Literally a 99 in weapon potential vs a 45. That fact is so far beyond any debate, I can't even ... ughh... But, actually, I have been one of the main guys arguing cervids are weirdly shit at fighting predators and kind of suck and don't use their antlers properly and etc etc. It's just specifically the antler vs Horn debate that makes me want to light a hobo on fire in sheer murderous rage. They're even demonstrating human weapons made of antler vs human weapons made of horn, it's totally nuts. It's like arguing a sword with a steel blade is worse than a sword with a blade made of Lego. Antlers break all the time, in most cases horns are far superior to antlers in every possible way. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 16:15:51 GMT
I have a confession to make, I made this matchup, mostly to monitor and laugh at the idiotic carnivora thread here- Carnivora - Common Eland vs Alaskan MooseThe bullshit therein is driving me nuts. Argue that the Eland wins, I wouldn't necessarily be triggered, or hell I don't even know if I disagree ... but they're actually arguing that the horn is inherently a more deadly weapon than the antler. This is the height of sheer unadulterated ignorance. As someone who has held horns and antlers in my hands, this is beyond fucking insane. One is a shell of plastic-like keratin over vulnerable flesh. Antlers are SOLID BONE. They are DEFINITELY better weapons. Literally a 99 in weapon potential vs a 45. That fact is so far beyond any debate, I can't even ... ughh... But, actually, I have been one of the main guys arguing cervids are weirdly shit at fighting predators and kind of suck and don't use their antlers properly and etc etc. It's just specifically the antler vs Horn debate that makes me want to light a hobo on fire in sheer murderous rage. They're even demonstrating human weapons made of antler vs human weapons made of horn, it's totally nuts. It's like arguing a sword with a steel blade is worse than a sword with a blade made of Lego. Antlers break all the time, in most cases horns are far superior to antlers in every possible way. Lol What about weight per cubic inch? And what other ways are there? Talk to me about how cervids use antlers, and I'm all ears. It is a categorical undeniable fact that antlers are superior weapons to horns, and it's not even vaguely close. Take a horn and take an antler and bash them together and the horn will disintegrate into nothing because it's a fucking fingernail. If antlers do break all the time it might be because they are being hit by... fucking antlers. I swear to god. This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. |
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Post by Johnson on Jan 16, 2023 16:16:59 GMT
I have a confession to make, I made this matchup, mostly to monitor and laugh at the idiotic carnivora thread here- Carnivora - Common Eland vs Alaskan MooseThe bullshit therein is driving me nuts. Argue that the Eland wins, I wouldn't necessarily be triggered, or hell I don't even know if I disagree ... but they're actually arguing that the horn is inherently a more deadly weapon than the antler. This is the height of sheer unadulterated ignorance. As someone who has held horns and antlers in my hands, this is beyond fucking insane. One is a shell of plastic-like keratin over vulnerable flesh. Antlers are SOLID BONE. They are DEFINITELY better weapons. Literally a 99 in weapon potential vs a 45. That fact is so far beyond any debate, I can't even ... ughh... But, actually, I have been one of the main guys arguing cervids are weirdly shit at fighting predators and kind of suck and don't use their antlers properly and etc etc. It's just specifically the antler vs Horn debate that makes me want to light a hobo on fire in sheer murderous rage. They're even demonstrating human weapons made of antler vs human weapons made of horn, it's totally nuts. It's like arguing a sword with a steel blade is worse than a sword with a blade made of Lego. Antlers break all the time, in most cases horns are far superior to antlers in every possible way. You are right. Horns are considered more effective than antlers as weapons. " In functional terms horns make sense: they serve their possessors as efective
weapons." " Antlers are too delicate to serve as weapons. When antlered animals really fght, they use their hooves and not their antlers." source: Modell, W. (1969). Horns and antlers. Scientific American, 220(4), 114-123. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 16:33:24 GMT
Antlers break all the time, in most cases horns are far superior to antlers in every possible way. Lol What about weight per cubic inch? And what other ways are there? Talk to me about how cervids use antlers, and I'm all ears. It is a categorical undeniable fact that antlers are superior weapons to horns, and it's not even vaguely close. Take a horn and take an antler and bash them together and the horn will disintegrate into nothing because it's a fucking fingernail. If antlers do break all the time it might be because they are being hit by... fucking antlers. I swear to god. This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Antlers break all the time in fights, horns don't, horns are stockier. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 16:54:50 GMT
No they aren't. Please get your hands on some horns and some antlers. I have many antlers and many horns in my house. If someone told you glass was sturdier than concrete what would you say?
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 16:55:31 GMT
Antlers break all the time, in most cases horns are far superior to antlers in every possible way. You are right. Horns are considered more effective than antlers as weapons. " In functional terms horns make sense: they serve their possessors as efective
weapons." " Antlers are too delicate to serve as weapons. When antlered animals really fght, they use their hooves and not their antlers." source: Modell, W. (1969). Horns and antlers. Scientific American, 220(4), 114-123. Why can't you thumbs down shit, btw? They need to work on that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 17:16:19 GMT
You are right. Horns are considered more effective than antlers as weapons. " In functional terms horns make sense: they serve their possessors as efective
weapons." " Antlers are too delicate to serve as weapons. When antlered animals really fght, they use their hooves and not their antlers." source: Modell, W. (1969). Horns and antlers. Scientific American, 220(4), 114-123. Why can't you thumbs down shit, btw? They need to work on that. Horns are more stout and better weapons, 30% of deer have broken their antlers in their lifetime, excluding fights and when they regrow. Why are you denying a simple fact? Antlers are long and snap easily, horns RARELY break - if ever. I would never favour a deer over some sort of wild cattle at similar sizes in any situation ever. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 17:20:55 GMT
I have a confession to make, I made this matchup, mostly to monitor and laugh at the idiotic carnivora thread here- Carnivora - Common Eland vs Alaskan MooseThe bullshit therein is driving me nuts. Argue that the Eland wins, I wouldn't necessarily be triggered, or hell I don't even know if I disagree ... but they're actually arguing that the horn is inherently a more deadly weapon than the antler. This is the height of sheer unadulterated ignorance. As someone who has held horns and antlers in my hands, this is beyond fucking insane. One is a shell of plastic-like keratin over vulnerable flesh. Antlers are SOLID BONE. They are DEFINITELY better weapons. Literally a 99 in weapon potential vs a 45. That fact is so far beyond any debate, I can't even ... ughh... But, actually, I have been one of the main guys arguing cervids are weirdly shit at fighting predators and kind of suck and don't use their antlers properly and etc etc. It's just specifically the antler vs Horn debate that makes me want to light a hobo on fire in sheer murderous rage. They're even demonstrating human weapons made of antler vs human weapons made of horn, it's totally nuts. It's like arguing a sword with a steel blade is worse than a sword with a blade made of Lego. Keratin is tough iirc. Edit, found info: In this way, keratin forms tough, insoluble structures that are among the strongest non-mineralized tissues found in nature. The only other non-mineralized tissue that resembles the toughness of keratin is chitin (the material found in the exoskeleton of insects and the outer shell of shellfish). |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 17:21:33 GMT
Define stout? Horns are a lightweight casing. Horns probably rarely "break" the same way a plastic bag rarely "breaks".
Funnily enough I would never favour a deer over cattle either... it's not because of the headgear. It's despite the head gear. I'd also favour a polled bull with no horns whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 17:23:05 GMT
Define stout? Horns are a lightweight casing. Horns probably rarely "break" the same way a plastic bag rarely "breaks". Funnily enough I would never favour a deer over cattle either... it's not because of the headgear. It's despite the head gear. I'd also favour a polled bull with no horns whatsoever. Horns are rarely damaged because they aren't as elongated. Antlers are mid-tier at best. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 16, 2023 17:32:51 GMT
I agree, the length of antlers would make them more prone to breakage. But the difference in how deadly antlers are, due to being SOLID BONE, and weighing I dunno... 8000% more per cubic inch (I confess that is a guesstimate... a conservative guesstimate) should not be underestimated. If cervids like moose and red deer and etc just had the inclination to use their antlers against predators, they would slay them far more regularly than horned bovids. They are far deadlier weapons. It's dramatically mental how much more deadly they are as weapons. The only issue is they don't possess their antlers for a lot of the year, and so they don't instinctively rely on them for defense against predators. They only understand their antlers as an offensive weapon against rival males for breeding rights purposes. So often deer will be fleeing from predators and not using their antlers at all, maybe kicking out at them with their feet or just purely running like they are springbok or whatever. I am one of the main proponents of the inferiority of cervids as fighters of predators, HOWEVER, from a purely physical anatomical point of view, antlers are CLEARLY way better weapons than horns. Carnivora even had the audacity to talk about human-made weapons made of antlers and horns... antlers are PURE SOLID HEAVY BONE, you can fashion very very very serious weapons out of them. A weapon made of keratin horn is gonna be stupidly light and ineffective beyond belief.
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Post by Johnson on Jan 16, 2023 19:34:14 GMT
I agree, the length of antlers would make them more prone to breakage. But the difference in how deadly antlers are, due to being SOLID BONE, and weighing I dunno... 8000% more per cubic inch (I confess that is a guesstimate... a conservative guesstimate) should not be underestimated. If cervids like moose and red deer and etc just had the inclination to use their antlers against predators, they would slay them far more regularly than horned bovids. They are far deadlier weapons. It's dramatically mental how much more deadly they are as weapons. The only issue is they don't possess their antlers for a lot of the year, and so they don't instinctively rely on them for defense against predators. They only understand their antlers as an offensive weapon against rival males for breeding rights purposes. So often deer will be fleeing from predators and not using their antlers at all, maybe kicking out at them with their feet or just purely running like they are springbok or whatever. I am one of the main proponents of the inferiority of cervids as fighters of predators, HOWEVER, from a purely physical anatomical point of view, antlers are CLEARLY way better weapons than horns. Carnivora even had the audacity to talk about human-made weapons made of antlers and horns... antlers are PURE SOLID HEAVY BONE, you can fashion very very very serious weapons out of them. A weapon made of keratin horn is gonna be stupidly light and ineffective beyond belief. Check out the maduvu, a weapon made from Blackbuck horns. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 19:44:09 GMT
I agree, the length of antlers would make them more prone to breakage. But the difference in how deadly antlers are, due to being SOLID BONE, and weighing I dunno... 8000% more per cubic inch (I confess that is a guesstimate... a conservative guesstimate) should not be underestimated. If cervids like moose and red deer and etc just had the inclination to use their antlers against predators, they would slay them far more regularly than horned bovids. They are far deadlier weapons. It's dramatically mental how much more deadly they are as weapons. The only issue is they don't possess their antlers for a lot of the year, and so they don't instinctively rely on them for defense against predators. They only understand their antlers as an offensive weapon against rival males for breeding rights purposes. So often deer will be fleeing from predators and not using their antlers at all, maybe kicking out at them with their feet or just purely running like they are springbok or whatever. I am one of the main proponents of the inferiority of cervids as fighters of predators, HOWEVER, from a purely physical anatomical point of view, antlers are CLEARLY way better weapons than horns. Carnivora even had the audacity to talk about human-made weapons made of antlers and horns... antlers are PURE SOLID HEAVY BONE, you can fashion very very very serious weapons out of them. A weapon made of keratin horn is gonna be stupidly light and ineffective beyond belief. Check out the maduvu, a weapon made from Blackbuck horns. I don't care who is right but that weapon is bullshit and cosmetic. |
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