Epicyon haydeni vs Asiatic lion

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vs.

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170 kg dog vs 190 kg cat.

@hammerhead  Bolushi  Hardcastle  oldgreengrolar

thoughts?

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I think the Epicyon’s jaws are more powerful but the lion is larger and the better grappler. I favor the lion, but this is a pretty even match.

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Something to be careful about in African lion vs matchups is the lion's warrior mentality. The asiatic lion doesn't have this advantage. I don't see anything going for this combatively diminished lion, I think a Pantanal jaguar or some tiger subspecies would be better.
Edit: oh, it's 20kgs larger. Changes things in an uninteresting way for me. Or not, lion may still lose. It would have to be uniquely shit, which they are not.

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Finally made a decent one (ignore the epicyon at the top lol).

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[Hardcastle]

By that I'd say the Lion should win, might be a very tough customer, but push comes to shove I can imagine the lion holding it down and strangling it more often than not.

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Jan 3, 2023 21:12:11 GMT Hardcastle said:

By that I'd say the Lion should win, might be a very tough customer, but push comes to shove I can imagine the lion holding it down and strangling it more often than not.

I agree. Although If the epicyon places it out correctly and the lion runs out of stamina then I can see him winning.

Would a Pantanal jaguar be fairer or a mismatch?

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Jan 3, 2023 21:51:33 GMT @ling said:

Jan 3, 2023 21:12:11 GMT Hardcastle said:

By that I'd say the Lion should win, might be a very tough customer, but push comes to shove I can imagine the lion holding it down and strangling it more often than not.

I agree. Although If the epicyon places it out correctly and the lion runs out of stamina then I can see him winning.

Would a Pantanal jaguar be fairer or a mismatch?

At least we could have parity with jaguar. Maybe Sumatran tiger? "This lion sucks but it is bigger and a cat so it wins."
A jaguar is a hell of a lot more impressive than an asian lion.

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Jan 3, 2023 20:53:59 GMT @ling said:

Finally made a decent one (ignore the epicyon at the top lol).

Wtf? Why would you make this match? This is a mismatch for all intents and purposes. That epicyon might as well be a wolfhound.

[Hardcastle]

I think the jaguar would struggle, perhaps an ambush victory could be possible, but the epicyon would have a weight advantage over even the biggest jaguar and I don't think a jaguar could overcome that in a face to face contest. The Epicyon seems like a real brute. Even at parity, say both 140 kgs, I'd still lean towards epicyon because I just have more belief in attributes like stamina and animals that are built to role with the punches and persist through taking damage and etc to achieve their predatory accomplishments. Basically I think the quick killing capacity of big cats actually comes at a price when it comes to fighting.
Wolf vs big cat is a little different because the wolf is also a marathon runner and very very gracile and frankly quite weak for it's size. It still does benefit from having stamina and persistence and a "roll with the punches" attitude but ultimately a cat of equal size can probably hold them down and kill them. The strength advantage is too great. That strength advantage won't be there against epicyon, even at parity.

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Jan 3, 2023 22:01:38 GMT Bolushi said:

Jan 3, 2023 21:51:33 GMT @ling said:

I agree. Although If the epicyon places it out correctly and the lion runs out of stamina then I can see him winning.

Would a Pantanal jaguar be fairer or a mismatch?

At least we could have parity with jaguar. Maybe Sumatran tiger? "This lion sucks but it is bigger and a cat so it wins."
A jaguar is a hell of a lot more impressive than an asian lion.

a 170 kg epicyon vs a 135 kg jaguar.

HMMMMMM

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Jan 3, 2023 22:05:47 GMT Hardcastle said:

I think the jaguar would struggle, perhaps an ambush victory could be possible, but the epicyon would have a weight advantage over even the biggest jaguar and I don't think a jaguar could overcome that in a face to face contest. The Epicyon seems like a real brute. Even at parity, say both 140 kgs, I'd still lean towards epicyon because I just have more belief in attributes like stamina and animals that are built to role with the punches and persist through taking damage and etc to achieve their predatory accomplishments. Basically I think the quick killing capacity of big cats actually comes at a price when it comes to fighting.
Wolf vs big cat is a little different because the wolf is also a marathon runner and very very gracile and frankly quite weak for it's size. It still does benefit from having stamina and persistence and a "roll with the punches" attitude but ultimately a cat of equal size can probably hold them down and kill them. The strength advantage is too great. That strength advantage won't be there against epicyon, even at parity.

A jaguar is a mismatch imo.

It’s 35 kg smaller.

[Hardcastle]

Agreed.

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Jan 3, 2023 22:02:30 GMT Bolushi said:

Jan 3, 2023 20:53:59 GMT @ling said:

Finally made a decent one (ignore the epicyon at the top lol).

Wtf? Why would you make this match? This is a mismatch for all intents and purposes. That epicyon might as well be a wolfhound.

I disagree.

The largest Asiatic lion in modern times is around 190 kg.

While the largest Epicyon remains we know of correlate to a 170 kg individual - which of course, wouldn’t be the largest one ever.

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