Green Anaconda vs Persian Leopard

[Hardcastle]

I grew up reading about anaconda vs jaguar battles in books and basically I came away with the impression that Jaguars prey on Anacondas way way way way more than the reverse. HOWEVER, it can occassionally go wrong for them. It was also always noted the jaguar has rather special tactics it has adapted to combat anacondas. Notably a special shake that temporarily loosens their constricting coils in close quarter combat. I don't know how real or "old wives tale" this is but I do think it stands to reason jaguars would be "better at big snakes" than other cats, since they definitely partake more regularly. I don't think you could just gift these skills to a persian leopard in a hypothetical match, EVEN IF they possibly can get up to somewhat similar sizes and bulk levels (and I'm dubious that's true, tbh, though I've seen the argument many times - I think jaguars are still always stronger than leopards at parity, maybe not a huge amount, but a little).

So... all in all, I'd be compelled to possibly give the jaguar the edge over the anaconda (while remaining open to a "they don't target the best" argument), but given how hard it is for jaguars I'd be compelled to favour an anaconda over a persian leopard which I think would be out of it's depth.

I agree with Ling that there's a huge difference between constricting snakes, sometimes even those which are the same size. For example in Australia the biggest snake is the scrub python but it's actually nothing compared to the olive python which is way stronger and can kill much bigger prey. Anacondas are definitely the strongest snakes of all and leopards killing rock pythons doesn't mean they could replicate the feat on Anacondas.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 14:24:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

I grew up reading about anaconda vs jaguar battles in books and basically I came away with the impression that Jaguars prey on Anacondas way way way way more than the reverse. HOWEVER, it can occassionally go wrong for them. It was also always noted the jaguar has rather special tactics it has adapted to combat anacondas. Notably a special shake that temporarily loosens their constricting coils in close quarter combat. I don't know how real or "old wives tale" this is but I do think it stands to reason jaguars would be "better at big snakes" than other cats, since they definitely partake more regularly. I don't think you could just gift these skills to a persian leopard in a hypothetical match, EVEN IF they possibly can get up to somewhat similar sizes and bulk levels (and I'm dubious that's true, tbh, though I've seen the argument many times - I think jaguars are still always stronger than leopards at parity, maybe not a huge amount, but a little).

So... all in all, I'd be compelled to possibly give the jaguar the edge over the anaconda (while remaining open to a "they don't target the best" argument), but given how hard it is for jaguars I'd be compelled to favour an anaconda over a persian leopard which I think would be out of it's depth.

I agree with Ling that there's a huge difference between constricting snakes, sometimes even those which are the same size. For example in Australia the biggest snake is the scrub python but it's actually nothing compared to the olive python which is way stronger and can kill much bigger prey. Anacondas are definitely the strongest snakes of all and leopards killing rock pythons doesn't mean they could replicate the feat on Anacondas.

Yes, I agree.

In my opinion a jag is too much for any snake, but of course the anaconda is still nothing to scoff at.

I'll always believe that the Boa constrictor is the most impressive snake (in terms of feats). As they they're decently fast like most pythons, but still maintain robustness and strength like an anaconda.

[Hardcastle]

The movement of the anaconda possibly is something to consider. It doesn't seem that comfortable on dry land. In shallow water I think Anaconda wins for sure, but perhaps in a hypothetical dry land in open space match up the leopard might be able to harrass it to death by batting at it's head, avoiding it's air-strikes and weakening it over time. Jaguars I believe have taken them in water which is impressive.

Boa Constrictors do seem quite jacked and compact, so that makes sense. In Australia I'm always, like I said, most impressed with the olive python. It's feats include fairly large macropods (wallabies and kangaroos) as well as crocodiles.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 15:11:13 GMT Hardcastle said:

The movement of the anaconda possibly is something to consider. It doesn't seem that comfortable on dry land. In shallow water I think Anaconda wins for sure, but perhaps in a hypothetical dry land in open space match up the leopard might be able to harrass it to death by batting at it's head, avoiding it's air-strikes and weakening it over time. Jaguars I believe have taken them in water which is impressive.

Boa Constrictors do seem quite jacked and compact, so that makes sense. In Australia I'm always, like I said, most impressed with the olive python. It's feats include fairly large macropods (wallabies and kangaroos) as well as crocodiles.

Yeah, Olive pythons have been known to tackle large prey.

Boa constrictors are very robust compared to most other snakes apart from a few.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 12:38:31 GMT @ling said:

Dec 28, 2022 3:30:24 GMT Bolushi said:

Specifying a 220lb Pantanal jaguar is reaching to me. A 220lb Pantanal jaguar walks all over any snake I'd wager. Perhaps a 120-150lb Mexican jaguar could get caught lacking by a giant anaconda, but a Pantanal jaguar would just eat one.

That Anaconda is like 6-8 ft long imo.

Average females are around 15.1 ft long and males are around 9.10 ft long so that Anaconda is even on the smaller side for a male.

And with the square-cube law in play, the weight difference would be far greater than the length difference.

[Deleted]

I have just voted Persian leopard to beat the Green Anaconda as we have to go on average weights for matchups.

And as the average Green Anaconda doesn't seem to outweigh the Persian leopard and I think the Persian leopard categorically has it over the Green Anaconda lb-for-lb, it's a no-brainer that voting has to go with the Persian leopard.

But given the Green Anaconda's very large weight range, at freak max weights I'm saying the Greeny is just too big for a max Persian leopard.

[Deleted]

Has anyone's opinion changed? Just curious.

[Hardcastle]

A little. The more I argued in the recent dog vs constrictor debates, the more sure I became that you can not count out any mammalian predator of adequate substance and size against even the largest snakes.

Imagine them embroiled in a close-quarter grapple, that's different. In that scenario I'd ONLY give the jaguar a chance against a green anaconda. Let me be clear on what I mean by that- I would NOT give a lion or tiger a chance. They wouldn't know what to do. The jaguar by many anecdotal accounts, which I intuitively trust (I have the books on them and they ring true to me) has special techniques it has acquired specifically to deal with anacondas in a close quarter struggle. That is basically it's bread and butter. Now... it may still come unstuck. I believe it targets probably lesser anacondas MOST of the time and would still be in great danger against a max anaconda. I'm just saying, in the close quarter grapple, basically being draped in snake... it still has a shot because it is not in unfamiliar territory. It's a snake/croc/turtle targeting cat by nature and is somewhat unique among felines in this department. So I give it special respect for taking on those animals.

Most cats and dogs, make no mistake, are already fucked once they are "draped in snake (constrictor)", the mistakes have already been made.

I simply argue, that in an open field, where they see the snake and it's just sitting there like a big lump of sausage on the grass ... the snake is actually at a massive disadvantage. Whether cat or dog... and I've seen it upclose multiple times against very very fast snakes, the cat or dog can "harass" the snake to death while it helplessly takes air swings. The mammalian carnivores are just too quick and too smart and savvy and a big constrictor is just NOT going to catch them. No way. They have to make a mistake, they have to beat themselves. They can dance around it at leisure picking it apart. The anaconda especially, it's extremely sluggish on dry land with no ambush. Put an anaconda on a dry grass field with a persian leopard, the leopard can just approach cautiously, get a feel for the snake's reflexes by taunting it for a while, and then figure it out. I just think the leopard almost certainly wins unless it's stupid and defective. BUT... the anaconda CERTAINLY wins if you push the two together into a close-quarter grapple.

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2023 13:16:40 GMT Hardcastle said:

A little. The more I argued in the recent dog vs constrictor debates, the more sure I became that you can not count out any mammalian predator of adequate substance and size against even the largest snakes.

Imagine them embroiled in a close-quarter grapple, that's different. In that scenario I'd ONLY give the jaguar a chance against a green anaconda. Let me be clear on what I mean by that- I would NOT give a lion or tiger a chance. They wouldn't know what to do. The jaguar by many anecdotal accounts, which I intuitively trust (I have the books on them and they ring true to me) has special techniques it has acquired specifically to deal with anacondas in a close quarter struggle. That is basically it's bread and butter. Now... it may still come unstuck. I believe it targets probably lesser anacondas MOST of the time and would still be in great danger against a max anaconda. I'm just saying, in the close quarter grapple, basically being draped in snake... it still has a shot because it is not in unfamiliar territory. It's a snake/croc/turtle targeting cat by nature and is somewhat unique among felines in this department. So I give it special respect for taking on those animals.

Most cats and dogs, make no mistake, are already fucked once they are "draped in snake (constrictor)", the mistakes have already been made.

I simply argue, that in an open field, where they see the snake and it's just sitting there like a big lump of sausage on the grass ... the snake is actually at a massive disadvantage. Whether cat or dog... and I've seen it upclose multiple times against very very fast snakes, the cat or dog can "harass" the snake to death while it helplessly takes air swings. The mammalian carnivores are just too quick and too smart and savvy and a big constrictor is just NOT going to catch them. No way. They have to make a mistake, they have to beat themselves. They can dance around it at leisure picking it apart. The anaconda especially, it's extremely sluggish on dry land with no ambush. Put an anaconda on a dry grass field with a persian leopard, the leopard can just approach cautiously, get a feel for the snake's reflexes by taunting it for a while, and then figure it out. I just think the leopard almost certainly wins unless it's stupid and defective. BUT... the anaconda CERTAINLY wins if you push the two together into a close-quarter grapple.

I think it should be noted that snakes can still constrict while being bitten by another predator.

[Hardcastle]

Totally irrelevant. I'm not even entertaining the possibility of that being necessary. I'm actually generously conceding that if any kind of constricting begins to take place... it's a wrap. Literally and metaphorically. I haven't begun to embark down the debate of talking about fighting off a constriction. I am talking about cats and dogs avoiding even the beginning of a constriction. This is something both have demonstrated extensively.

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2023 16:20:32 GMT Hardcastle said:

Totally irrelevant. I'm not even entertaining the possibility of that being necessary. I'm actually generously conceding that if any kind of constricting begins to take place... it's a wrap. Literally and metaphorically. I haven't begun to embark down the debate of talking about fighting off a constriction. I am talking about cats and dogs avoiding even the beginning of a constriction. This is something both have demonstrated extensively.

Similar concept in BJJ. The best way to escape a choke is to prevent it from happening.