Komodo Dragon (365lbs) vs lioness

[Deleted]

vs

[Deleted]

I'd bet on the lioness to kill the dragon and then die later because the komodo is too big for the lioness to kill before getting bitten many times.

[Hardcastle]

I think the lioness would just kill it. Jump on it's back and a clean bite through the back of the head/neck. Komodos don't move that well.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2022 19:39:32 GMT Hardcastle said:

I think the lioness would just kill it. Jump on it's back and a clean bite through the back of the head/neck. Komodos don't move that well.

Why couldn't the Komodo score a bite?

[Deleted]

The Komodonis 36kg heavier.

Imo that should be enough for it to get a win or at least make it close.

[Hardcastle]

Dec 27, 2022 19:55:36 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 27, 2022 19:39:32 GMT Hardcastle said:

I think the lioness would just kill it. Jump on it's back and a clean bite through the back of the head/neck. Komodos don't move that well.

Why couldn't the Komodo score a bite?

I think the lion won't want it to. Cats don't like taking damage. It COULD, but IMO probably won't most of the time. I think the cat will take it by the back of the head, be on it's back and basically be keeping itself out of reach. If it starts to fail or lose it's hold it will just spring away most of the time without damage. Things could go bad, but I think generally the lioness will win.
I think it will be doing something like this with the lizard unable to retaliate effectively-

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2022 20:39:22 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 27, 2022 19:55:36 GMT Bolushi said:

Why couldn't the Komodo score a bite?

I think the lion won't want it to. Cats don't like taking damage. It COULD, but IMO probably won't most of the time. I think the cat will take it by the back of the head, be on it's back and basically be keeping itself out of reach. If it starts to fail or lose it's hold it will just spring away most of the time without damage. Things could go bad, but I think generally the lioness will win.
I think it will be doing something like this with the lizard unable to retaliate effectively-

That crocodile was sick, it took the tiger hours to kill it and it lost a few teeth and a lizard is has better agility as opposed to a crocodile.

[Hardcastle]

Well I wasn't promoting tiger over crocodile, I was just giving a visual on what I believe the lioness would do to the komodo, which now that you mention it is actually no where near as strong or durable as a crocodile. I've never been too impressed with their agility either. They seem fairly slow, lumbering and lethargic to me. I saw them in person at a zoo and was underwhelemed, and I'm typically underwhelmed by their documentaries as well, where they sneak a nip on the heal of an ungulate and then slowly follow it around until it is practically dying of a fever and laying in a puddle and then they eat it alive, slowly. Their physical/athletic performance doesn't seem to NEED to be impressive really at all.
I do like perenties because they can really move. I kind of grew to dislike komodos more and more as I got older.

[oldgreengrolar]

Komodos don’t get that big except in captivity. Wild ones grow up to 150 pounds.

Reptiles unlike mammals keep on growing till death.

[Hammerhead]

Dec 27, 2022 20:39:22 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 27, 2022 19:55:36 GMT Bolushi said:

Why couldn't the Komodo score a bite?

I think the lion won't want it to. Cats don't like taking damage. It COULD, but IMO probably won't most of the time. I think the cat will take it by the back of the head, be on it's back and basically be keeping itself out of reach. If it starts to fail or lose it's hold it will just spring away most of the time without damage. Things could go bad, but I think generally the lioness will win.
I think it will be doing something like this with the lizard unable to retaliate effectively-

I think the lioness will kill the Komodo dragon not like Machli killing the mugger, but like a jaguar killing a spectacled caiman.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 2:51:47 GMT Hammerhead said:

Dec 27, 2022 20:39:22 GMT Hardcastle said:

I think the lion won't want it to. Cats don't like taking damage. It COULD, but IMO probably won't most of the time. I think the cat will take it by the back of the head, be on it's back and basically be keeping itself out of reach. If it starts to fail or lose it's hold it will just spring away most of the time without damage. Things could go bad, but I think generally the lioness will win.
I think it will be doing something like this with the lizard unable to retaliate effectively-

I think the lioness will kill the Komodo dragon not like Machli killing the mugger, but like a jaguar killing a spectacled caiman.

I would totally kill myself if I was a guest. Not sure if lionesses have the power and strength to replicate that equally, could do a milder version of it though.

[Deleted]

I don't tend to rate predatory reptiles on the same level as carnivora.

Just looking at it from a predator-to-prey weight ratio angle rather than a stylistic fighting angle, the most robust and formidable reptiles categorically lag well behind the most robust and formidable carnivorans.

Like even in water taking land prey, large Nile crocodiles achieve a typical max prey weight of 1x their own bodyweight, with an absolute atypical max of 2x.

Compared to say lone lioness, which is typically capable of 2x, and as an atypically absolute max capable of like 4x.

Predator-to-prey weight ratios can be used in the assessment of a predator's formidability, and this is a large ratio difference, it's like comparing a humerus ML of 9 to humerus ML of 6, it's just too big a gap to seriously entertain.

And as predators that regularly take proportionally "large prey" tend to be proportionally robust, and vice versa for "small prey" predators, I think this indicates that reptiles in general are considerably more gracile animals with finer bones and slighter musculature.

Where I think matches might get interesting is: robust (for a reptile) reptile vs gracile carnivoran.

Regarding the lioness dying from a bite after the match, I don't factor that into the match, my criteria is who kills who first.

Same could happen with a venomous snake tagging its opponent. The snake tags opponent then kills snake. Then opponent dies of envenomation 8 hours later.

That's a win for the snake's opponent, as the snake died first.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 3:28:51 GMT @ajay said:

I don't tend to rate predatory reptiles on the same level as carnivora.

Just looking at it from a predator-to-prey weight ratio angle rather than a stylistic fighting angle, the most robust and formidable reptiles categorically lag well behind the most robust and formidable carnivorans.

Like even in water taking land prey, large Nile crocodiles achieve a typical max prey weight of 1x their own bodyweight, with an absolute atypical max of 2x.

Compared to say lone lioness, which is typically capable of 2x, and as an atypically absolute max capable of like 4x.

Predator-to-prey weight ratios can be used in the assessment of a predator's formidability, and this is a large ratio difference, it's like comparing a humerus ML of 9 to humerus ML of 6, it's just too big a gap to seriously entertain.

And as predators that regularly take proportionally "large prey" tend to be proportionally robust, and vice versa for "small prey" predators, I think this indicates that reptiles in general are considerably more gracile animals with finer bones and slighter musculature.

Where I think matches might get interesting is: robust (for a reptile) reptile vs gracile carnivoran.

Regarding the lioness dying from a bite after the match, I don't factor that into the match, my criteria is who kills who first.

Same could happen with a venomous snake tagging its opponent. The snake tags opponent then kills snake. Then opponent dies of envenomation 8 hours later.

That's a win for the snake's opponent, as the snake died first.

Well yeah, but what do you want a Nile crocodile to tackle?

There are no animals upwards of 5x their body mass.

The closest thing would be something like a hippo/rhino, which quite frankly a 130kg lioness wouldn't be able to kill a 650kg hippo if we're using the same premise.

Crocodiles also have to pull their prey into water, of course which of isn't possible when its 5x your weight.

I agree with most of your other points though.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 3:37:41 GMT @ling said:

Dec 29, 2022 3:28:51 GMT @ajay said:

I don't tend to rate predatory reptiles on the same level as carnivora.

Just looking at it from a predator-to-prey weight ratio angle rather than a stylistic fighting angle, the most robust and formidable reptiles categorically lag well behind the most robust and formidable carnivorans.

Like even in water taking land prey, large Nile crocodiles achieve a typical max prey weight of 1x their own bodyweight, with an absolute atypical max of 2x.

Compared to say lone lioness, which is typically capable of 2x, and as an atypically absolute max capable of like 4x.

Predator-to-prey weight ratios can be used in the assessment of a predator's formidability, and this is a large ratio difference, it's like comparing a humerus ML of 9 to humerus ML of 6, it's just too big a gap to seriously entertain.

And as predators that regularly take proportionally "large prey" tend to be proportionally robust, and vice versa for "small prey" predators, I think this indicates that reptiles in general are considerably more gracile animals with finer bones and slighter musculature.

Where I think matches might get interesting is: robust (for a reptile) reptile vs gracile carnivoran.

Regarding the lioness dying from a bite after the match, I don't factor that into the match, my criteria is who kills who first.

Same could happen with a venomous snake tagging its opponent. The snake tags opponent then kills snake. Then opponent dies of envenomation 8 hours later.

That's a win for the snake's opponent, as the snake died first.

Well yeah, but what do you want a Nile crocodile to tackle?

There are no animals upwards of 5x their body mass.

The closest thing would be something like a hippo/rhino, which quite frankly a 130kg lioness wouldn't be able to kill a 650kg hippo if we're using the same premise.

Crocodiles also have to pull their prey into water, of course which of isn't possible when its 5x your weight.

I agree with most of your other points though.

Most of the evidence for Nile crocodile's max. predator-to-prey weight ratio I read about revolved around hippo, with I think some buffalo thrown in as well.

Typical adult Niles come in 300 - 1,000 lbs.

For lone Niles there is nothing in the over-2x range, let alone 5x. There is plenty of opportunity for 2 - 5x with hippo and even buffalo, but they can't do it. In exceptionally rare cases does a lone Nile succeed with a buffalo pushing 2.0x, and that with prolonged touch-and-go struggle in the water with the quarry.

Niles working together have been known to take healthy sub-adult hippo or sick adult hippo, but lone Niles don't do that let, alone healthy adult hippos, which for the record are well over 2x the weight of most Niles.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 7:04:50 GMT @ajay said:

Dec 29, 2022 3:37:41 GMT @ling said:

Well yeah, but what do you want a Nile crocodile to tackle?

There are no animals upwards of 5x their body mass.

The closest thing would be something like a hippo/rhino, which quite frankly a 130kg lioness wouldn't be able to kill a 650kg hippo if we're using the same premise.

Crocodiles also have to pull their prey into water, of course which of isn't possible when its 5x your weight.

I agree with most of your other points though.

Most of the evidence for Nile crocodile's max. predator-to-prey weight ratio I read about revolved around hippo, with I think some buffalo thrown in as well.

Typical adult Niles come in 300 - 1,000 lbs.

For lone Niles there is nothing in the over-2x range, let alone 5x. There is plenty of opportunity for 2 - 5x with hippo and even buffalo, but they can't do it. In exceptionally rare cases does a lone Nile succeed with a buffalo pushing 2.0x, and that with prolonged touch-and-go struggle in the water with the quarry.

Niles working together have been known to take healthy sub-adult hippo or sick adult hippo, but lone Niles don't do that let, alone healthy adult hippos, which for the record are well over 2x the weight of most Niles.

The hippo's body is perfectly designed to be incompatible with a crocodile's attack, it can also seriously injure a crocodile. It might as well be another carnivore, the  crocodile's performance against them is understandably poor.
A fully grown 800-1000lb Nile crocodile can definitely take out some giant bovine IMO. A 1000lb crocodile is a beast and proportionally superior to its smaller counterparts from what I've seen. The crocodile doesn't really have anywhere to grab the hippo, and lion prides don't either. Hence why they almost never kill them.