Where do you stand on Bigfoot? Aka sasquatch/yeti/yowie?

[Hardcastle]

I don't believe they still exist, BUT... I think it's very intriguing that these (seemingly) unrelated cultures share this legend of a large hairy ape man.

I've seen it postulated that these legends trace back to humans interacting with Gigantopithecus.


I used to go along with that, made sense at first, but I've actually changed my view after learning more about what gigantopithecus was actually like... I don't believe these legends are talking about a big Orangutan.

I have some ideas but curious what you guys think.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty much 100% sure it's a giant orangutan OR a gorilla. But were gorillas even present there?
I'm not surprised they're subject to legends. It'd be terrifying to be mock charged by a giant orangutan, and considering it's a giant hairy human in the forest yeah you're going to get some weird legends and paintings.
I'm not exactly caught up with the subject but yeah orangutan seems quite reasonable. It literally means ''forest person''.

[Deleted]

I don’t believe in the Yowie. There have never been any primates in Australia. I’ve also seen some “yeti” remains DNA tested to be bears but the yeti is the most compelling IMO. Bigfoot I’m not sure about.

[Hardcastle]

Dec 14, 2022 17:06:04 GMT Bolushi said:

I'm pretty much 100% sure it's a giant orangutan OR a gorilla. But were gorillas even present there?
I'm not surprised they're subject to legends. It'd be terrifying to be mock charged by a giant orangutan, and considering it's a giant hairy human in the forest yeah you're going to get some weird legends and paintings.
I'm not exactly caught up with the subject but yeah orangutan seems quite reasonable. It literally means ''forest person''.

It's what most people think, so you are in good company.

HOWEVER, I have an alternate theory that actually these legends descend from people who encountered Denisovan Man. Who was not an ape, but a rival human species that lived in Asia. There are few remains of Denisovan man, but what there is indicates he was very large. The fragment of finger is bigger than it should be, and the portion of skull bigger than it should be, the tooth way bigger than it should, etc. Bigger than correlating bone fragments of modern humans would be, and it's likely the humans that actually encountered denisovan man some 70 000 years ago were very very small, which would have made him all the more terrifying.

The best representation of those early humans that were venturing into Denisovan man country 70 000 years ago is best preserved with people like these -

Asiatic negrito pygmies. They are what the homo sapiens who first explored into Asia from Africa in the paleolithic looked like. These are just an example of some who got isolated and thus frozen in time, showing us what people used to look like in Asia.

Note that the asiatic pygmies who encountered Denisovan man (those above didn't, they stopped off short of Denisovan country) would actually mix with Denisovan and ended up looking like this-

Still kind of short, but way taller, like 5'8" instead of 5'0", and also way more robust and solid and also more hairy.

Using reverse hybridisation logic, honed through a lifetime of observing pig dog crosses, I can look at this guy, subtract the asiatic negrito pygmy, and I think what you're left with is actually... a big foot. Well kind of. Maybe instead of 8 or 10 foot tall, more like 6'3", but yes covered in fur.

Note this guy is only about 5-7% denisovan. And BTW these are the humans with the most robust bones of anyone on earth.

The big foot legends vary, too. Some are insane massive 10 foot tall monsters, but others are more modest and realistic. In Siberia they have the silly "yeti" legend, which is like an abominable snowman of gigantic size, BUT they also have the Almasty legend. Which is just a dude who is about 6'-6'5" and covered in black fur and really strong.



I think this ^ is actually probably pretty accurate. And it wasn't an ape, it was a man.

The legends all come from people who either live in Denisovan country, OR passed through it (ie American indians and Australian Aborigines). It was probably a very scary thing for the little stone age homo sapiens of asia to deal with, and thus we have the exagerrated scary tales. This beast also probably raped them, and that is why they are now 5-7% Denisovan.

This is just my theory, but I feel it's a pretty good one.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2022 18:47:31 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 14, 2022 17:06:04 GMT Bolushi said:

I'm pretty much 100% sure it's a giant orangutan OR a gorilla. But were gorillas even present there?
I'm not surprised they're subject to legends. It'd be terrifying to be mock charged by a giant orangutan, and considering it's a giant hairy human in the forest yeah you're going to get some weird legends and paintings.
I'm not exactly caught up with the subject but yeah orangutan seems quite reasonable. It literally means ''forest person''.

It's what most people think, so you are in good company.

HOWEVER, I have an alternate theory that actually these legends descend from people who encountered Denisovan Man. Who was not an ape, but a rival human species that lived in Asia. There are few remains of Denisovan man, but what there is indicates he was very large. The fragment of finger is bigger than it should be, and the portion of skull bigger than it should be, the tooth way bigger than it should, etc. Bigger than correlating bone fragments of modern humans would be, and it's likely the humans that actually encountered denisovan man some 70 000 years ago were very very small, which would have made him all the more terrifying.

The best representation of those early humans that were venturing into Denisovan man country 70 000 years ago is best preserved with people like these -

Asiatic negrito pygmies. They are what the homo sapiens who first explored into Asia from Africa in the paleolithic looked like. These are just an example of some who got isolated and thus frozen in time, showing us what people used to look like in Asia.

Note that the asiatic pygmies who encountered Denisovan man (those above didn't, they stopped off short of Denisovan country) would actually mix with Denisovan and ended up looking like this-

Still kind of short, but way taller, like 5'8" instead of 5'0", and also way more robust and solid and also more hairy.

Using reverse hybridisation logic, honed through a lifetime of observing pig dog crosses, I can look at this guy, subtract the asiatic negrito pygmy, and I think what you're left with is actually... a big foot. Well kind of. Maybe instead of 8 or 10 foot tall, more like 6'3", but yes covered in fur.

Note this guy is only about 5-7% denisovan. And BTW these are the humans with the most robust bones of anyone on earth.

The big foot legends vary, too. Some are insane massive 10 foot tall monsters, but others are more modest and realistic. In Siberia they have the silly "yeti" legend, which is like an abominable snowman of gigantic size, BUT they also have the Almasty legend. Which is just a dude who is about 6'-6'5" and covered in black fur and really strong.



I think this ^ is actually probably pretty accurate. And it wasn't an ape, it was a man.

The legends all come from people who either live in Denisovan country, OR passed through it (ie American indians and Australian Aborigines). It was probably a very scary thing for the little stone age homo sapiens of asia to deal with, and thus we have the exagerrated scary tales. This beast also probably raped them, and that is why they are now 5-7% Denisovan.

This is just my theory, but I feel it's a pretty good one.

So what explains the fur color? Have any of the paintings shown ''bigfoot'' doing humanoid activities?

[Hardcastle]

Which fur color?

I don't know about painting, but a consistent theme of the legends of bigfoot/sasquatch/yeti/yowie/almasty is them being upright and bipedal and also repeated emphasised reference to them running very fast. I should have mentioned that as a big part of the reason I don't think the gigantopithecus theory works.

[lincoln]

I personally think that it’s possible that the yeti and Bigfoot could exist, once when I was in the woods I heard a sound I’ve never heard before, sounded like a mix of a roar and a howl 👀

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2022 19:23:17 GMT Hardcastle said:

Which fur color?

I don't know about painting, but a consistent theme of the legends of bigfoot/sasquatch/yeti/yowie/almasty is them being upright and bipedal and also repeated emphasised reference to them running very fast. I should have mentioned that as a big part of the reason I don't think the gigantopithecus theory works.

The orangutan-esque color, like that big blackish orange guy.
On a slightly unrelated note I wonder if penis size scales with height like dog skulls, which equates to the Denisovans having big penises.

[Deleted]

I've got some shit on today so will drop back in on this thread to say more another time. But before shooting off I'll link a YouTube video, a talk + slideshow by Lloyd Pye, perhaps the best and most conpelling summation I've ever heard on what is hairyman

Antonio given the kind of theories you're putting out here you in particular I think would find it a fascinating watch if you haven't already seen it. It's been years since I watched it but might rewatch it later for a primer.

Adios, until later Amigos.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2022 15:20:59 GMT Hardcastle said:

I don't believe they still exist, BUT... I think it's very intriguing that these (seemingly) unrelated cultures share this legend of a large hairy ape man.

I've seen it postulated that these legends trace back to humans interacting with Gigantopithecus.


I used to go along with that, made sense at first, but I've actually changed my view after learning more about what gigantopithecus was actually like... I don't believe these legends are talking about a big Orangutan.

I have some ideas but curious what you guys think.

I agree, if bigfoot exists it wouldn't be gigantopithecus.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2022 19:34:41 GMT lincoln said:

I personally think that it’s possible that the yeti and Bigfoot could exist, once when I was in the woods I heard a sound I’ve never heard before, sounded like a mix of a roar and a howl 👀

I've about given up trying to decide one way or the other, I just don't know. But if I was forced to bet the house I'd probably bet against them being real, as while there appears to be a lot of compelling evidence, there's also a lot that doesn't add up or is implausible about there being extant hominins. Same with ufos, more-or-less undecided.

[Hardcastle]

Dec 14, 2022 20:19:39 GMT @ajay said:

I've got some shit on today so will drop back in on this thread to say more another time. But before shooting off I'll link a YouTube video, a talk + slideshow by Lloyd Pye, perhaps the best and most conpelling summation I've ever heard on what is hairyman

Antonio given the kind of theories you're putting out here you in particular I think would find it a fascinating watch if you haven't already seen it. It's been years since I watched it but might rewatch it later for a primer.

Adios, until later Amigos.

Long video. Gonna watch it now while I play NBA2k.

[lincoln]

Dec 15, 2022 8:31:47 GMT Hardcastle said:

Dec 14, 2022 20:19:39 GMT @ajay said:

I've got some shit on today so will drop back in on this thread to say more another time. But before shooting off I'll link a YouTube video, a talk + slideshow by Lloyd Pye, perhaps the best and most conpelling summation I've ever heard on what is hairyman

Antonio given the kind of theories you're putting out here you in particular I think would find it a fascinating watch if you haven't already seen it. It's been years since I watched it but might rewatch it later for a primer.

Adios, until later Amigos.

Long video. Gonna watch it now while I play NBA2k.

That’s a Good game

[Hardcastle]

Dec 15, 2022 9:07:23 GMT lincoln said:

Dec 15, 2022 8:31:47 GMT Hardcastle said:

Long video. Gonna watch it now while I play NBA2k.

That’s a Good game

How do you play? I just do mycareer only. Play on park, 2s and 3s or ante up 1 on 1. I actually don't have 2k23 yet, thinking of skipping it. The one thing I hate about the franchise is they shamelessly rape you of money. Not even like "I can't spare the money!" but more like it's insulting to my intelligence.

[Hardcastle]

Dec 14, 2022 20:19:39 GMT @ajay said:

I've got some shit on today so will drop back in on this thread to say more another time. But before shooting off I'll link a YouTube video, a talk + slideshow by Lloyd Pye, perhaps the best and most conpelling summation I've ever heard on what is hairyman

Antonio given the kind of theories you're putting out here you in particular I think would find it a fascinating watch if you haven't already seen it. It's been years since I watched it but might rewatch it later for a primer.

Adios, until later Amigos.

So... that escalated quickly towards the end.
But anyway...
He made lots of great points, BUT also was the whole time annoying me for a familiar reason. He generalised homo sapiens. I hate when people do that about dogs, and humans. He was so confident with the comparison of footprints and skulls and how humans are "nothing like archaic humans". Meanwhile my homo sapien wife (from papua new guinea) is clearly way way way closer to the archaic humans. Her skull and footprint and bone robusticity and everything he described. She matched the proto-humanoids. He needs to sample a wider array of human diversity. The "missing links" he is looking for are actually within homo sapiens. Homo sapiens is a domesticated animal, so yes the phenotypical diversity is insane, BUT natural stone age people don't deviate that much from archaic proto human species. They are now a minority, but they are the real humans. If you use the dog analogue, just imagine "this french bulldog is nothing like a wolf!!!", yeah no shit, look at the dingo, then you can start ruling out conspiracy theories and start understanding how dogs evolved from wolves.

So all the alien/annunaki stuff is, to me, frankly BS.

However, still lots of good stuff in there, and he actually made me return to a headspace where I shouldn't rule out the idea some hairy archaic hominids might remain. I always thought the Patterson film was way more intriguing and harder to discount than people made out. And he mentioned the Zana case... to me beyond intriguing. Very very very interesting. He thinks Zana was a neanderthal... I almost guarantee he changed his tune since learning about denisovan. Denisovan is the closest cousin to neanderthal and yes, I fully agree Zana and almas were/are denisovan. It just seems very likely, even though it's also outrageously fantastical. Like did these primitive village hoaxters know subtle details about denisovan and archaid hominids in general? I doubt it. I think they are, or were at least, still finding rare surviving denisovans in siberia/russia/asia. No doubt on the brink of extinction or possibly extinct, but maybe one was still alive in the 1850s. All the almas cases are way way more sober and credible than the sasquatch/bigfoot/yeti cases, IMO. Even the modern ones I don't want to rule out. When hunters say "I saw a guy who was covered in black fur and kind of an asshole" it doesn't sound made up. "I saw a monstrous ape man that was 10 foot tall in some forest outside Seattle", that sounds made up. But the almas stuff just seems like "sorry, but that's what I saw". Humble people being honest.