Rank all 8 bear species from worst to best fighter

[Deleted]

^ What the title says. (Giant panda is definitely the worst IMO)

[Deleted]

I don't know anything about bears, I mean I can tell you paragraphs about bears but I truly don't know shit about them besides pandas are shit, grizzlies are good, blackies are ''meh''
However, I can try. I haven't seen many other bears fight though, I guess I'll focus more on their feats against other carnivores.
Sloth Bears can beat up tigers, so that's cool. Guess they're #1
Sun Bears I've heard testimony about but I don't know. I shouldn't put them in #2 probably but I am.
Grizzly Bears have killed tigers and predate on large boars.
Polar Bears aren't really skilled as they should be, below grizzlies but they're carnivores so they beat black bear.
Black Bears are herbivores but somehow are somewhat solid fighters.
Spectacled bears I don't know shit about so they're gonna chill down here.
Pandas suck, arabian leopardess would kill 100 of them.

[Deleted]

Based on Bolushi's post this sounds like a lb-for-lb list.

I used to think polar bear was lb-for-lb ahead of brown bear mainly because it was an obligate carnivore, but eventually changed my mind.

1. Brown bear
2. Polar bear
3. Black bear
4. Asiatic black bear
5. Sloth bear
6. Spectacled bear
7. Sun bear
8. Giant Panda

While giant panda comes last, I think they're normally way underrated, after all they're still is a rather robust carnivoran with a carnivoran's maul. And competing males at least have some proper fights among themselves.

If I remember correctly Wroe's bite force quotient for giant panda is very impressive.

I've argued very much against the tide on Quora that giant panda would outclass gorilla lb-for-lb.

[Hardcastle]

I too flip flop on brown bear vs polar bear for top spot. I believe in the data which suggests brown bears potentially intimidate polar bears in regions where they overlap, but... I'm still not sure they actually should be favoured. I find polar bears more impressive, yes because they are "obligate carnivores" and elite predators, and this seems contradictory/hypocritical to some of my other takes where being a hyper-predator can even be to your detriment (like with cats), but really those arguments don't apply to any bear. In dogs being a predator DOES help against dogs with supressed predatory drives. So it's at least a case by case basis.

I, right now, feel like polar bears are the supreme king of the bears. Could be wrong. Not necessarily married to the idea, but it's what I think right now. I think they're the biggest, for starters (which frankly goes a long way) but also their heightened predatory inclinations actually have them IMO better poised to wreck shit. I don't think they're lacking durability, strength or stamina (maybe heat tolerance? Could impact stamina maybe?) compared to a brown, and then they seem to move better actually (very impressive athletes) and of course have wrecking offensive capabilities to kill insanely difficult prey (like walruses and small whales).

I would say -
1. Polar bear
2. Brown bear
3. Sloth bear
4. Spectacled bear
5. Sun bear
6. Moon bear
7. American black bear
8. Giant Panda

My biggest question mark is actually on 7 and 8. I'm SO unimpressed with the american black bear. I don't understand why it's such a coward and such a wuss. TBH I have no legitimate reason to rate the panda lower than it.

The sloth bear I rate highly, despite low predatory abilities, because it is THE most robust bear, and also proves itself beating up and fending off tigers. I think it's actually like a giant honey badger, just incredibly hard to kill and tough as hell.
I suspect the sun bear may be not far off, it has loose skin to deter predatory attacks and I imagine it's extremely tough, just don't know enough to be confident. The asiatic black bear, aka moon bear, is described in extremely unflattering context by old timey big game hunters, which I honestly trust at this point more than scientists who often have a boner for their wild animal and don't really care about accuracy when it comes to combative performance (instead tend towards blind-hyping).

The spectacled bear gets a high ranking... honestly? Two reasons; it is the closest living relative to the short faced bear, which IMO was the ultimate bear of all time. Superior to the polar bear, super predatory and focussed on megafauna, I think the baddest bear ever. The spectacled bear is related, AND... it once attempted to prey on a tapir... I know, that's pretty weak, but honestly I'm impressed. I think there are more indications that it targets big game, but they're escaping me right now. I just have a hunch it's actually a killer and a badass.

[Deleted]

oldgreengrolar What’s your take?

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2022 17:18:07 GMT Hardcastle said:

I too flip flop on brown bear vs polar bear for top spot. I believe in the data which suggests brown bears potentially intimidate polar bears in regions where they overlap, but... I'm still not sure they actually should be favoured. I find polar bears more impressive, yes because they are "obligate carnivores" and elite predators, and this seems contradictory/hypocritical to some of my other takes where being a hyper-predator can even be to your detriment (like with cats), but really those arguments don't apply to any bear. In dogs being a predator DOES help against dogs with supressed predatory drives. So it's at least a case by case basis.

I, right now, feel like polar bears are the supreme king of the bears. Could be wrong. Not necessarily married to the idea, but it's what I think right now. I think they're the biggest, for starters (which frankly goes a long way) but also their heightened predatory inclinations actually have them IMO better poised to wreck shit. I don't think they're lacking durability, strength or stamina (maybe heat tolerance? Could impact stamina maybe?) compared to a brown, and then they seem to move better actually (very impressive athletes) and of course have wrecking offensive capabilities to kill insanely difficult prey (like walruses and small whales).

I think there's no question that "at weight", the polar bear is King of the Bears, I think they'd be lb-for-lb close enough that if one has a decent weight advantage, it MOTN has the advantage in combat. In my mind the lb-for-lb or parity debate is where the real debate is for brown and polar bear.

What caused me to consider siding with parity brown over polar bear was looking at a few technical specs on their respective morphologies. I decided the brown bear was in fact lb-for-lb stronger and more robust, as well as more durable, harder to damage. More of a bulldog.

I just forget what I saw that led me to consider the brown more durable. I think part of it was the skull dimensions.

---

There is also Wroe's bite force quotient estimates, which at the canines are:

Brown: 99.3%
Polar:   92.3%

I realize bite force isn't always strongly indicative of combat ability. But everything being equal, a superior bite force quotient can only help.

---

In terms of strength and robusticity, here are Wroe's limb long bone ML percentages:

	Humerus	Radius	Femur	Tibia
Brown	10.84%	11.30%	9.21%	9.62%
Polar	9.85%	11.04%	8.45%	10.49%

There is some real daylight between humerus ML's, the most important long bone dimension for this discussion. And even femurs, which with the way bears fight, might assist in pushing and wrestling power to topple the opponent over.

---

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2022 17:18:07 GMT Hardcastle said:

I too flip flop on brown bear vs polar bear for top spot. I believe in the data which suggests brown bears potentially intimidate polar bears in regions where they overlap, but... I'm still not sure they actually should be favoured. I find polar bears more impressive, yes because they are "obligate carnivores" and elite predators, and this seems contradictory/hypocritical to some of my other takes where being a hyper-predator can even be to your detriment (like with cats), but really those arguments don't apply to any bear. In dogs being a predator DOES help against dogs with supressed predatory drives. So it's at least a case by case basis.

I, right now, feel like polar bears are the supreme king of the bears. Could be wrong. Not necessarily married to the idea, but it's what I think right now. I think they're the biggest, for starters (which frankly goes a long way) but also their heightened predatory inclinations actually have them IMO better poised to wreck shit. I don't think they're lacking durability, strength or stamina (maybe heat tolerance? Could impact stamina maybe?) compared to a brown, and then they seem to move better actually (very impressive athletes) and of course have wrecking offensive capabilities to kill insanely difficult prey (like walruses and small whales).

I would say -
1. Polar bear
2. Brown bear
3. Sloth bear
4. Spectacled bear
5. Sun bear
6. Moon bear
7. American black bear
8. Giant Panda

My biggest question mark is actually on 7 and 8. I'm SO unimpressed with the american black bear. I don't understand why it's such a coward and such a wuss. TBH I have no legitimate reason to rate the panda lower than it.

The sloth bear I rate highly, despite low predatory abilities, because it is THE most robust bear, and also proves itself beating up and fending off tigers. I think it's actually like a giant honey badger, just incredibly hard to kill and tough as hell.
I suspect the sun bear may be not far off, it has loose skin to deter predatory attacks and I imagine it's extremely tough, just don't know enough to be confident. The asiatic black bear, aka moon bear, is described in extremely unflattering context by old timey big game hunters, which I honestly trust at this point more than scientists who often have a boner for their wild animal and don't really care about accuracy when it comes to combative performance (instead tend towards blind-hyping).

The spectacled bear gets a high ranking... honestly? Two reasons; it is the closest living relative to the short faced bear, which IMO was the ultimate bear of all time. Superior to the polar bear, super predatory and focussed on megafauna, I think the baddest bear ever. The spectacled bear is related, AND... it once attempted to prey on a tapir... I know, that's pretty weak, but honestly I'm impressed. I think there are more indications that it targets big game, but they're escaping me right now. I just have a hunch it's actually a killer and a badass.

There are very very few accounts of polar bears predating on adult walruses and small whales have no defensive abilities. There are instances where grizzlies have killed denning female polar bears. Polar bears have no other carnivorans to fight and are reluctant to fight their new competitors, I'd say this would reduce their predator fighting abilities.
American black bears are surprisingly deadly. There's a video on youtube where a black bear kills a hound pretty quick. Don't like the video but here it is: 

[Johnson]

Dec 20, 2022 20:56:46 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 20, 2022 17:18:07 GMT Hardcastle said:

I too flip flop on brown bear vs polar bear for top spot. I believe in the data which suggests brown bears potentially intimidate polar bears in regions where they overlap, but... I'm still not sure they actually should be favoured. I find polar bears more impressive, yes because they are "obligate carnivores" and elite predators, and this seems contradictory/hypocritical to some of my other takes where being a hyper-predator can even be to your detriment (like with cats), but really those arguments don't apply to any bear. In dogs being a predator DOES help against dogs with supressed predatory drives. So it's at least a case by case basis.

I, right now, feel like polar bears are the supreme king of the bears. Could be wrong. Not necessarily married to the idea, but it's what I think right now. I think they're the biggest, for starters (which frankly goes a long way) but also their heightened predatory inclinations actually have them IMO better poised to wreck shit. I don't think they're lacking durability, strength or stamina (maybe heat tolerance? Could impact stamina maybe?) compared to a brown, and then they seem to move better actually (very impressive athletes) and of course have wrecking offensive capabilities to kill insanely difficult prey (like walruses and small whales).

I would say -
1. Polar bear
2. Brown bear
3. Sloth bear
4. Spectacled bear
5. Sun bear
6. Moon bear
7. American black bear
8. Giant Panda

My biggest question mark is actually on 7 and 8. I'm SO unimpressed with the american black bear. I don't understand why it's such a coward and such a wuss. TBH I have no legitimate reason to rate the panda lower than it.

The sloth bear I rate highly, despite low predatory abilities, because it is THE most robust bear, and also proves itself beating up and fending off tigers. I think it's actually like a giant honey badger, just incredibly hard to kill and tough as hell.
I suspect the sun bear may be not far off, it has loose skin to deter predatory attacks and I imagine it's extremely tough, just don't know enough to be confident. The asiatic black bear, aka moon bear, is described in extremely unflattering context by old timey big game hunters, which I honestly trust at this point more than scientists who often have a boner for their wild animal and don't really care about accuracy when it comes to combative performance (instead tend towards blind-hyping).

The spectacled bear gets a high ranking... honestly? Two reasons; it is the closest living relative to the short faced bear, which IMO was the ultimate bear of all time. Superior to the polar bear, super predatory and focussed on megafauna, I think the baddest bear ever. The spectacled bear is related, AND... it once attempted to prey on a tapir... I know, that's pretty weak, but honestly I'm impressed. I think there are more indications that it targets big game, but they're escaping me right now. I just have a hunch it's actually a killer and a badass.

There are very very few accounts of polar bears predating on adult walruses and small whales have no defensive abilities. There are instances where grizzlies have killed denning female polar bears. Polar bears have no other carnivorans to fight and are reluctant to fight their new competitors, I'd say this would reduce their predator fighting abilities.
American black bears are surprisingly deadly. There's a video on youtube where a black bear kills a hound pretty quick. Don't like the video but here it is: 

Black Bears are awesome.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2022 23:49:40 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 20, 2022 20:56:46 GMT Bolushi said:

There are very very few accounts of polar bears predating on adult walruses and small whales have no defensive abilities. There are instances where grizzlies have killed denning female polar bears. Polar bears have no other carnivorans to fight and are reluctant to fight their new competitors, I'd say this would reduce their predator fighting abilities.
American black bears are surprisingly deadly. There's a video on youtube where a black bear kills a hound pretty quick. Don't like the video but here it is: 

Black Bears are awesome.

Do you mean that in a genuine or sadistic way?

[Johnson]

Dec 20, 2022 23:55:04 GMT Bolushi said:

Dec 20, 2022 23:49:40 GMT Johnson said:

Black Bears are awesome.

Do you mean that in a genuine or sadistic way?

What is not to like about Black Bears?


They are intelligent.



They are acrobatic.





Good at climbing obstacles.



Are pretty strong, at least when moving large objects.






It is also a bit funny when they steal food from humans.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2022 0:12:21 GMT Johnson said:

Dec 20, 2022 23:55:04 GMT Bolushi said:

Do you mean that in a genuine or sadistic way?

What is not to like about Black Bears?


They are intelligent.



They are acrobatic.





Good at climbing obstacles.



Are pretty strong, at least when moving large objects.






It is also a bit funny when they steal food from humans.

Yes, I like how such a big, powerful animal can survive in human settlements and intelligently use humans to their advantage. Like a giant raccoon.

[lincoln]

this is not about who would win in a fight, this is simply based off PFP

 Example: I don’t think a sloth bear will beat a polar bear

1. Brown bear (very big and aggressive)
2. Sloth bear (known to fend off tigers)
3. Sun bear (very aggressive) and polar bear (huge and deadly)
4. American black bear (dangerous but shy) and Asian black bear
5. Spectacled bear (not as aggressive as the others)
6. Giant panda (for obvious reasons)

if this is about who will win in a fight as it is then it goes:

1. Brown bear and polar bear (could go either way)
2. Sloth bear (known to fend off tigers)
3. American black bear 
4. Asian black bear (smaller then American black bear)
5. spectacled bear (not as aggressive)
6. Sun bear (small) and panda (for obvious reasons)

[Johnson]

I know this was most likely a staged fight, but this Black Bear Cub showed some good grappling moves.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2022 1:12:15 GMT Johnson said:

I know this was most likely a staged fight, but this Black Bear Cub showed some good grappling moves.

Quite neat, shows how reluctant cougars are to fight when their opponent is able to retaliate and take a beating.

[oldgreengrolar]

My take:
1) It is a toss up between polar bears and brown bears (depending on which subspecies). Polar bears use more paw swipes and aim for the throat at times being the only bears that are almost pure carnivores. Brown bears are more like brawlers and just bite any part of their opponent their jaws can reach.
2)Asiatic black bears and sloth bears - while I doubt they can kill Amur and Bengal tigers in real fights to death, they have chased them off in skermish fights.
3)American black bear - one of the more passive of their kind but they chase off cougars from their meals using their size.
4)Sun bears.
5)Spectacled bears.

It seems that bears bite and shakes their jaws in a similar way dogs do. Also bears that climb trees more seems less aggressive than these which do not.