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Post by ishthefish on Jun 28, 2024 17:53:43 GMT
I’ve thought of a scenario and it would be interesting to see what you guys think.
The scenario:
You are stuck in a large wilderness area that is a mix of savannah/temperate forests. The savannah is in the south of the wilderness area while the temperate forests are in the north. There are also mountains towards the north where the temperate forest region is, which is similar to the Appalachian mountains in terms of terrain and climate. The prey species consist of wild hogs, rabbits, squirrels, feral goats and deer. The predators consist of mountain lions, coyotes and black bears. There are also venomous snakes and birds of prey. You only have basic survival gear, boar hunting gear for your dogs, and no guns. The only weapon you have is a machete. So the question is, which two dogs would you take to help you in this scenario? They can be any mix of your choice.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 3, 2024 17:12:41 GMT
I would probably go with 2 lurchers. I don't see any need for any other type of dog other than dogs that can run down and catch prey efficiently. They are also incidentally very good at evading injury/death while still being assertive
I'd probably even go for 3/4 sighthound in both.
Grey x deerhound/kelpie
Grey x deerhound/ebt
If you mentioned hares, antelopes or gazelle one of those would actually just be a bush greyhound (like 7/8ths english grey and 1/8 a mixture of various random dogs to add specific traits like durable feet and intelligence and etc, but the end result looking exactly like a greyhound), but I think with the prey listed I can afford to have both dogs be 1/4 something else. Still sighthound is going to be the bulk of both dogs. These dogs will torture and drive away any of the predators listed fairly easily, and together can catch all the prey listed. Are also generally quite good at not getting hurt. Two sighthounds working together also greatly improves success rate for cutting off escape routes, so one sighthound and one different dog I think would be a mistake, I also can't think what another type of dog could really offer, especially with no gun.
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Post by Bolushi on Jul 3, 2024 17:36:35 GMT
I think I'd take a saluki bull grey and grey x collie grey. Would be better to deal with the pigs.
Can't get behind grey x deer, amstag kelpie or something sure but just f1 grey deerhound ehh... just not nearly as refined and perfected. Also not as hard imo.
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Post by ishthefish on Jul 4, 2024 11:35:40 GMT
I would probably go with 2 lurchers. I don't see any need for any other type of dog other than dogs that can run down and catch prey efficiently. They are also incidentally very good at evading injury/death while still being assertive I'd probably even go for 3/4 sighthound in both. Grey x deerhound/kelpie Grey x deerhound/ebt If you mentioned hares, antelopes or gazelle one of those would actually just be a bush greyhound (like 7/8ths english grey and 1/8 a mixture of various random dogs to add specific traits like durable feet and intelligence and etc, but the end result looking exactly like a greyhound), but I think with the prey listed I can afford to have both dogs be 1/4 something else. Still sighthound is going to be the bulk of both dogs. These dogs will torture and drive away any of the predators listed fairly easily, and together can catch all the prey listed. Are also generally quite good at not getting hurt. Two sighthounds working together also greatly improves success rate for cutting off escape routes, so one sighthound and one different dog I think would be a mistake, I also can't think what another type of dog could really offer, especially with no gun. Say you had the gun of your choice for this scenario along with sufficient ammunition. How would the type of dogs you utilise change for you? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 4, 2024 17:04:37 GMT
I would probably go with 2 lurchers. I don't see any need for any other type of dog other than dogs that can run down and catch prey efficiently. They are also incidentally very good at evading injury/death while still being assertive I'd probably even go for 3/4 sighthound in both. Grey x deerhound/kelpie Grey x deerhound/ebt If you mentioned hares, antelopes or gazelle one of those would actually just be a bush greyhound (like 7/8ths english grey and 1/8 a mixture of various random dogs to add specific traits like durable feet and intelligence and etc, but the end result looking exactly like a greyhound), but I think with the prey listed I can afford to have both dogs be 1/4 something else. Still sighthound is going to be the bulk of both dogs. These dogs will torture and drive away any of the predators listed fairly easily, and together can catch all the prey listed. Are also generally quite good at not getting hurt. Two sighthounds working together also greatly improves success rate for cutting off escape routes, so one sighthound and one different dog I think would be a mistake, I also can't think what another type of dog could really offer, especially with no gun. Say you had the gun of your choice for this scenario along with sufficient ammunition. How would the type of dogs you utilise change for you? Logically this would open up the option to use scenthounds, curs, generalist gun dogs like pointers, herders or even spitz breeds like laikas or hunting pariahs like basenjis. All could absolutely work, but I personally STILL think nothing beats lurchers for efficiency. I'd still go with sighthound crosses, maybe the grey/deer/ebt would become not useful, and instead have two grey/deer/herding types. That or maybe- 1x Grey x Deer/Kelpie 1x Grey x pointer The latter to maximise finding ability. |
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Post by ishthefish on Jul 4, 2024 18:53:31 GMT
On the topic of wild hogs, what type of dogs should someone start out with if they want to start hunting wild hogs? Also how many dogs in a pack do you think would be the most useful/efficient for hunting wild hogs?
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 4, 2024 20:34:10 GMT
Depends what style of hunting you want to do. If you want to shoot pigs it makes the most sense to hunt with bay dogs, these could be curs like catahoulas, BMCs or Ridgebacks, OR persuasive scenthounds like plotthounds or bluticks (too soft of a scenthound won't even bay a pig, they'll just ignore them), or rugged spitz breeds like japanese akita, Jindo, Laika or Karelian, even herding dogs like kelpies or heelers...
If you want to actually catch hogs so you can handle them (and either rope them up for live catching or stab them or whatever) the best thing to use is a sighthound/bull hybrid of some description, or some mongrel with a good deal of both those types in its makeup. It truly doesn't matter which specific breeds are involved, makes practically no difference, but if you were making it yourself you should probably expect to go through some duds before you get good ones. It would be smarter to buy hybrids of this breeding from seasoned hog hunters, and smarter still if you are a beginner to spend a little extra and get actual raised and trained experienced adult dogs. They'll basically teach you.
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Post by CoolJohnson on Jul 4, 2024 22:29:43 GMT
Depends what style of hunting you want to do. If you want to shoot pigs it makes the most sense to hunt with bay dogs, these could be curs like catahoulas, BMCs or Ridgebacks, OR persuasive scenthounds like plotthounds or bluticks (too soft of a scenthound won't even bay a pig, they'll just ignore them), or rugged spitz breeds like japanese akita, Jindo, Laika or Karelian, even herding dogs like kelpies or heelers... If you want to actually catch hogs so you can handle them (and either rope them up for live catching or stab them or whatever) the best thing to use is a sighthound/bull hybrid of some description, or some mongrel with a good deal of both those types in its makeup. It truly doesn't matter which specific breeds are involved, makes practically no difference, but if you were making it yourself you should probably expect to go through some duds before you get good ones. It would be smarter to buy hybrids of this breeding from seasoned hog hunters, and smarter still if you are a beginner to spend a little extra and get actual raised and trained experienced adult dogs. They'll basically teach you. I am back! |
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Post by ishthefish on Jul 5, 2024 10:08:43 GMT
Depends what style of hunting you want to do. If you want to shoot pigs it makes the most sense to hunt with bay dogs, these could be curs like catahoulas, BMCs or Ridgebacks, OR persuasive scenthounds like plotthounds or bluticks (too soft of a scenthound won't even bay a pig, they'll just ignore them), or rugged spitz breeds like japanese akita, Jindo, Laika or Karelian, even herding dogs like kelpies or heelers... If you want to actually catch hogs so you can handle them (and either rope them up for live catching or stab them or whatever) the best thing to use is a sighthound/bull hybrid of some description, or some mongrel with a good deal of both those types in its makeup. It truly doesn't matter which specific breeds are involved, makes practically no difference, but if you were making it yourself you should probably expect to go through some duds before you get good ones. It would be smarter to buy hybrids of this breeding from seasoned hog hunters, and smarter still if you are a beginner to spend a little extra and get actual raised and trained experienced adult dogs. They'll basically teach you. How would a sighthound/bull hybrid compare to dogs like the Dogo Argentino, American bulldog, bandog etc… for catching wild hogs? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 5, 2024 11:02:25 GMT
Well the dogo is practically a bull/sighthound hybrid, just a little warped with low sighthound influence, higher bull and extra bits and bobs added. They are very frequently crossed with sighthound, actually. But yeah they are somewhere between a lead-in catch dog and a true running catch dog, as are. The bandog and ambull are both more just lead-in catch dogs. All of the above are fine, but I think probably improved with a sighthound cross especially if you want them to actually run down a fleeing hog, as opposed to being lead-in to a bayed hog. Typically people using an ambull or bandog (and most often a dogo as well) will be using them WITH a pack of hounds and/or curs. A bull/sighthound can do everything itself, and like I said all these dogs would IMO be improved with a sighthound cross.
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Post by ishthefish on Jul 6, 2024 7:13:02 GMT
Well the dogo is practically a bull/sighthound hybrid, just a little warped with low sighthound influence, higher bull and extra bits and bobs added. They are very frequently crossed with sighthound, actually. But yeah they are somewhere between a lead-in catch dog and a true running catch dog, as are. The bandog and ambull are both more just lead-in catch dogs. All of the above are fine, but I think probably improved with a sighthound cross especially if you want them to actually run down a fleeing hog, as opposed to being lead-in to a bayed hog. Typically people using an ambull or bandog (and most often a dogo as well) will be using them WITH a pack of hounds and/or curs. A bull/sighthound can do everything itself, and like I said all these dogs would IMO be improved with a sighthound cross. I apologise if this is obvious, but how would a bull/sighthound mix be able to do everything itself? How would adding sight hound give it a better nose? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jul 6, 2024 13:14:33 GMT
Well the dogo is practically a bull/sighthound hybrid, just a little warped with low sighthound influence, higher bull and extra bits and bobs added. They are very frequently crossed with sighthound, actually. But yeah they are somewhere between a lead-in catch dog and a true running catch dog, as are. The bandog and ambull are both more just lead-in catch dogs. All of the above are fine, but I think probably improved with a sighthound cross especially if you want them to actually run down a fleeing hog, as opposed to being lead-in to a bayed hog. Typically people using an ambull or bandog (and most often a dogo as well) will be using them WITH a pack of hounds and/or curs. A bull/sighthound can do everything itself, and like I said all these dogs would IMO be improved with a sighthound cross. I apologise if this is obvious, but how would a bull/sighthound mix be able to do everything itself? How would adding sight hound give it a better nose? The thing is ALL dogs have a great nose, the inclination to use it and train it and build that skill... that is the difficulty. But the inclination to use nose is huge in terriers, which then gets transferred to bull terriers. Likewise it might be absent in greyhounds, but in deerhounds it is higher, and then it is much higher in wolfhound. I guess hypothetically "Bull x sight" WOULD indeed be lacking in hunt drive and scenting ability and etc, but the reality of that cross is the "bull" side has scenting terrier and the sight side has the random hunting lurcher origins that made british sighthounds where hounds and terrier and all sorts of shit went into them. I personally like the idea of having bull and sighthound AND gun dog like pointer and etc splashed in as well. But even a bull lurcher which is typically say "bull terrier x greyhound", both the bull terrier and the greyhound actually have scenting dog infused. |
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Post by ishthefish on Jul 6, 2024 19:08:16 GMT
I apologise if this is obvious, but how would a bull/sighthound mix be able to do everything itself? How would adding sight hound give it a better nose? The thing is ALL dogs have a great nose, the inclination to use it and train it and build that skill... that is the difficulty. But the inclination to use nose is huge in terriers, which then gets transferred to bull terriers. Likewise it might be absent in greyhounds, but in deerhounds it is higher, and then it is much higher in wolfhound. I guess hypothetically "Bull x sight" WOULD indeed be lacking in hunt drive and scenting ability and etc, but the reality of that cross is the "bull" side has scenting terrier and the sight side has the random hunting lurcher origins that made british sighthounds where hounds and terrier and all sorts of shit went into them. I personally like the idea of having bull and sighthound AND gun dog like pointer and etc splashed in as well. But even a bull lurcher which is typically say "bull terrier x greyhound", both the bull terrier and the greyhound actually have scenting dog infused. Thank you Hardcastle, I appreciate all of the information. |
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