Cheetah VS White-tailed Deer

[wermthewerm]

Cheetah - Acinonyx jubatus

The cheetah is a lightly built, spotted cat characterised by a small rounded head, a short snout, black tear-like facial streaks, a deep chest, long thin legs and a long tail. Its slender, canine-like form is highly adapted for speed, and contrasts sharply with the robust build of the genus Panthera. Cheetahs typically reach 67–94 cm (26–37 in) at the shoulder and the head-and-body length is between 1.1 and 1.5 m (3 ft 7 in and 4 ft 11 in). The weight can vary with age, health, location, sex and subspecies; adults typically range between 21 and 72 kg (46 and 159 lb). Cubs born in the wild weigh 150–300 g (5.3–10.6 oz) at birth, while those born in captivity tend to be larger and weigh around 500 g (18 oz). Cheetahs are sexually dimorphic, with males larger and heavier than females, but not to the extent seen in other large cats. Studies differ significantly on morphological variations among the subspecies.

White-tailed Deer - Odocoileus virginianus

The white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), also known commonly as the whitetail and the Virginia deer, is a medium-sized species of deer native to North America, Central America, and South America as far south as Peru and Bolivia, where it predominately inhabits high mountain terrains of the Andes. The white-tailed deer is highly variable in size, generally following both Allen's rule[12] and Bergmann's rule[12] that the average size is larger farther away from the equator. North American male deer (also known as a buck) usually weigh 68 to 136 kg (150 to 300 lb),[13] but mature bucks over 180 kg (400 lb) have been recorded in the northernmost reaches of their native range, namely Minnesota, Ontario, and Manitoba. In 1926, Carl J. Lenander Jr. took a white-tailed buck near Tofte, Minnesota, that weighed 183 kg (403 lb) after it was field-dressed (internal organs and blood removed) and was estimated at 232 kg (511 lb) when alive.

[wermthewerm]

IMO, it strongly depends on the buck. Your average whitetail buck is more robust than the cheetah going off of the same robusticity measurement I used in the eland vs moose thread. The white-tailed deer is probably stronger assuming a 68kg buck vs a 46kg cheetah, however the jaws and claws of the cheetah could prove to be pretty deadly. Mule deer bucks have killed female cougars (carnivora jumpscare) and impalas have overpowered female cheetahs, and impalas are a fair bit more gracile than whitetails.

A big rutting white-tail buck, perhaps in the 80kg+ range, would probably just be too strong for a male cheetah to defeat face-to-face, though.

PumAcinonyx SuperCat what do you think?

[Bolushi]

I would favor the buck over any cheetah if it stands and fights, which I assume they'd do in rut?
If the buck runs then they're basically right up the cheetah's alley, but I think the cheetah would get screwed upon contact once the buck retaliates.
There's a video of an impala fucking over a cheetah, like the second it wasn't running the cheetah had NO answer. I favor the buck every single time and think some of the smallest leopard subspecies or mountain lion populations would be a better match, since I can envision them locking up the buck and winning. A cheetah cannot do this.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

wermthewerm  

Note: I'll decide to talk about the cheetah vs the male white-tailed deer (buck)

Yes, I think the cheetah really is in for a bad time, especially if it's a buck we're talking about. As we've seen, and as you posted, cervids like white-tailed deer are able to kill even cougars, a cat that is several tiers ahead of a cheetah, strength-wise. 

A cheetah isn't the ideal cat to tackle with a buck in a head-on battle. It lacks dexterity, so its ability to control the deer (which like you said is substantially more powerful/robust than an impala) is greatly diminished. 

But other than dexterity, where the cheetah really loses out are insufficient physical strength, low stamina, and inadequate jaw strength to suffocate the buck if it's in the rutting season. 

I understand that during the rut, hormonal changes cause the buck's neck to thicken, making it less susceptible to suffocation.

Now there's one way the cheetah could HYPOTHETICALLY circumvent this hurdle and win - and that’s by grabbing the buck by the nostrils and trying to deploy asphyxiation, just like lions do to buffaloes.

I also did read an account of a ~ 70 kg cougar trying to kill a 120 kg buck mule deer in the rut season via suffocation. When the buck gave a tough fight, the cougar switched tactics and decided to clamp down on its nostrils and asphyxiate it.

This worked, but the cougar still sustained serious injuries in the struggle: 





Taken From: The Cougar: Beautiful, Wild and Dangerous (Pages 135-136)

IF a cheetah was able to deploy this tactic long enough for the buck to experience asphyxia, then it COULD win. As far as I'm concerned, this is the ONLY win con for the cheetah.

Suffocation isn't going to work, because their snouts are much less powerful than those of other big cats like cougars (who themselves still have a hard time against bucks in the rutting season). 

Now that was a cougar struggling mightily with a deer that wasn't even up to twice its size (albeit, still bigger by a considerable margin), and it still got injured.

But cheetahs have no business singlehandedly attacking anything twice their size. An animal of similar weight is tough enough for it.

So, with a good weight advantage (it doesn't even need to be twice the cheetah's size), it's obvious that the buck wins like 100% of the time. 

Now, the question is if a cheetah would be strong enough to hold onto the nostrils long enough for the buck to succumb to asphyxiation. That's the important question to ask.

And TBH, I don’t think this is probable. If it happened, it would be an outlier case. Granted, we know cheetahs do asphyxiate prey (I've watched them do it on impala), but the prey they asphyxiate is not the kind of prey that I can envision being tough for a cougar, like white-tailed deer have occasionally proven themselves to be. 

I'd wager that the impala is still within the orbit/confines of prey animals/ungulates that a cheetah can grasp by the nostrils long enough for it to asphyxiate.

A white-tailed deer? I'd say no, as we have evidence of a 70 kg cougar (that would destroy any cheetah in existence) still having a tough time with a cervid (not a white-tailed deer, but I think a mule deer can be used as a good analogy) that had the advantages granted by the rutting season (a thick neck). 

So, in conclusion: If the cheetah can somehow, with a stroke of luck, manage to asphyxiate the white-tailed deer, then it can win. If it doesn't (which in most cases it won't), then it either runs away or kisses the dust.


I think the main thing to remember is that suffocation probably isn't going to be of much use. Asphyxiation is the cheetah's ONLY way of winning, IMO.

[wermthewerm]

Nov 26, 2023 17:39:11 GMT PumAcinonyx SuperCat said:

wermthewerm  

Note: I'll decide to talk about the cheetah vs the male white-tailed deer (buck)

Yes, I think the cheetah really is in for a bad time, especially if it's a buck we're talking about. As we've seen, and as you posted, cervids like white-tailed deer are able to kill even cougars, a cat that is several tiers ahead of a cheetah, strength-wise. 

A cheetah isn't the ideal cat to tackle with a buck in a head-on battle. It lacks dexterity, so its ability to control the deer (which like you said is substantially more powerful/robust than an impala) is greatly diminished. 

But other than dexterity, where the cheetah really loses out are insufficient physical strength, low stamina, and inadequate jaw strength to suffocate the buck if it's in the rutting season. 

I understand that during the rut, hormonal changes cause the buck's neck to thicken, making it less susceptible to suffocation.

Now there's one way the cheetah could HYPOTHETICALLY circumvent this hurdle and win - and that’s by grabbing the buck by the nostrils and trying to deploy asphyxiation, just like lions do to buffaloes.

I also did read an account of a ~ 70 kg cougar trying to kill a 120 kg buck mule deer in the rut season via suffocation. When the buck gave a tough fight, the cougar switched tactics and decided to clamp down on its nostrils and asphyxiate it.

This worked, but the cougar still sustained serious injuries in the struggle: 





Taken From: The Cougar: Beautiful, Wild and Dangerous (Pages 135-136)

IF a cheetah was able to deploy this tactic long enough for the buck to experience asphyxia, then it COULD win. As far as I'm concerned, this is the ONLY win con for the cheetah.

Suffocation isn't going to work, because their snouts are much less powerful than those of other big cats like cougars (who themselves still have a hard time against bucks in the rutting season). 

Now that was a cougar struggling mightily with a deer that wasn't even up to twice its size (albeit, still bigger by a considerable margin), and it still got injured.

But cheetahs have no business singlehandedly attacking anything twice their size. An animal of similar weight is tough enough for it.

So, with a good weight advantage (it doesn't even need to be twice the cheetah's size), it's obvious that the buck wins like 100% of the time. 

Now, the question is if a cheetah would be strong enough to hold onto the nostrils long enough for the buck to succumb to asphyxiation. That's the important question to ask.

And TBH, I don’t think this is probable. If it happened, it would be an outlier case. Granted, we know cheetahs do asphyxiate prey (I've watched them do it on impala), but the prey they asphyxiate is not the kind of prey that I can envision being tough for a cougar, like white-tailed deer have occasionally proven themselves to be. 

I'd wager that the impala is still within the orbit/confines of prey animals/ungulates that a cheetah can grasp by the nostrils long enough for it to asphyxiate.

A white-tailed deer? I'd say no, as we have evidence of a 70 kg cougar (that would destroy any cheetah in existence) still having a tough time with a cervid (not a white-tailed deer, but I think a mule deer can be used as a good analogy) that had the advantages granted by the rutting season (a thick neck). 

So, in conclusion: If the cheetah can somehow, with a stroke of luck, manage to asphyxiate the white-tailed deer, then it can win. If it doesn't (which in most cases it won't), then it either runs away or kisses the dust.


I think the main thing to remember is that suffocation probably isn't going to be of much use. Asphyxiation is the cheetah's ONLY way of winning, IMO.

Great post, and also really nice find! I wonder if you could find the video in question. I tried searching up the cougar network's site but only came across a facebook page but it has no videos, and the site it redirects us to is.. clearly not about cougars.

And yeah, mule deer are basically just slightly larger and stronger whitetails (albeit with a bit more aggression thrown in as well as upwards-facing antlers instead of forwards-facing ones)

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

wermthewerm

I have tried searching for the video on their website (it's on the Web Archive now, it would seem), but haven't found it either. I don’t think it's available anymore.

Here's the link to their page on the Web Archive. Feel free to glance through: The Cougar Network