Alll accounts of dogs taking on/subjugating/ killing Wild or

[grippingwhiteness]

All the accounts you guys know about. Bull terrier accounts on Guars, Dogos on buffalos, Apbts or SBTs on bulls are also accepted . I'm probably about to be faced with a very hardcore wolf fan that would probably bet dogs can't take alone on such huge herbivores, that's why I'm actually yes - asking for help on this matter you guys know way more about. Help is always welcome.

Hardcastle
Bolushi

[Bolushi]

Where is this debate taking place?
I'll compile everything that comes to mind shortly.

[grippingwhiteness]

Sept 13, 2023 19:59:37 GMT Bolushi said:

Where is this debate taking place?
I'll compile everything that comes to mind shortly.

Reddit.

[Bolushi]

Sept 13, 2023 20:00:42 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Sept 13, 2023 19:59:37 GMT Bolushi said:

Where is this debate taking place?
I'll compile everything that comes to mind shortly.

Reddit.

What's your reddit? Same one? I heard you got suspended.

[grippingwhiteness]

Sept 13, 2023 22:03:35 GMT Bolushi said:

Sept 13, 2023 20:00:42 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Reddit.

What's your reddit? Same one? I heard you got suspended.

The vicious debate is happening in dms of another mine reddit, my other got unbanned BUT I have an alt which is called FierceHomelander.

[Bolushi]

Only bovines?

Hardcastle can you reference the historical accounts?

Dogo Argentinos being used to capture rogue domestic water buffalo in South America - 

Bull Arabs being used to capture feral cattle, including a huge scrub bull -


Staffordshire Bull Terrier mixing it up with a water buffalo - 
rumble.com/v2x9nye-pitbull-lugs-a-water-buffalo.html
Alanos - 
bestiary.info/alano-espanol-t100.html
rumble.com/v3hi07e-some-alano-stuff.html
2 non-working petbulls nearly kill a free-range draught bull before being shot by a national guard - 
web.archive.org/web/20051230022539/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2005%2F09%2F18%2Fwkat418.xml

10 month old non-working petbull kills a cow -
mg.co.za/article/2017-08-16-00-what-the-a-sex-crazed-pitbull-chases-kills-and-humps-a-cow-in-king-williams-town/

English Bull Terrier catching angus bull

Stubby pet EBT lugs a fighting bull -
streamable.com/l0ogp5

APBTs used to catch unruly bull -


As I think of more I'll include them.

[s]

www.club-caza.com/articleamp/art/26909

Cool footage, multiple videos of 2 Alanos Vs a 90kg Boar

[Hardcastle]

I don't know if I have time right now to find all the books and excerpts, will see how I go. Here is one of my favourite books with lots of accounts.

Thirteen years among the wild beasts of India
In this book George P Sanderson details hunting with "bull-dogs" that he specifies are mostly bullterriers and weigh between 30 and 40 lbs; smaller than most sbts you will find today.

They perform incredible feats subjugating sloth bears, gaurs and leopards, among others. At one point they live-capture a young elephant, which goes on to become George's pet/working elephant.
Over the 13 years he had a couple of packs. Normally he'd have between 4-6 bull terriers at a time, but they weren't always working in unison.

Here's one example where the guar was pulled up by one 35 lbs dog, but ultimately was joined by 2 others.

I came in view in time to see Bill Sykes fix on to the bull's nose, when he turned and thundered down the hillside past myself and men, at a pace which was astonishing in so heavy a beast. Bill Sykes of course hung on, though he was carried through two or three thick places where any but a most determined dog would have been swept off. He was a model seizer ; he always went in straight, and never waited for a more favourable opportunity, nor the assistance of the other dogs. Dogs may be sacrificed by this reckless courage on occasions, but the general safety is best insured by all going in without hesitation, and holding on under any punishment. How often curs with just enough pluck to make them take a snap or two are killed by going within reach of a dangerous animal, whereas dogs that fix and hold render the beast comparatively harmless. Seizers should act by nature on the tactics recommended by Nelson to his young officers in their dealings with the enemy : " Never mind manoeuvres ; always go at them."

The other dogs did not get a chance till the bull was at the bottom of the hill, when they sprang at his head one after another as they came up, and pulled him down. They kept his nose to the ground whilst he bellowed with fright and pain, and made but poor attempts to gore them with his horns. Thus a few dogs prove more troublesome assailants to a bison than a tiger does, as the latter, from his size, can be more easily tossed or trampled on.

Here 4 bull terriers catch a young elephant (though bay dogs are present nipping at its feet as well)-

The elephant had seen us and was already making off. He had not gone two hundred yards, however, before Lady was up, and single-handed sprang at his cheek, and hung there ; in another moment Bill Sykes and Turk had him by the trunk ; he stumbled, when Bismarck seized the top of the ear furthest away from him, across the head, so that when the elephant rose and raced off, Bismarck was riding on his head, holding on to the ear on the off side, and having his hind-legs hanging down on the near. Such a scene now ensued as beggars description. The elephant roared lustily, and dragged Bill Sykes and Turk along, often on their backs, and apparently in imminent risk of being trampled to death. The jungle was full of dry bamboos, amongst which pursued and pursuers made a great crashing. All the smaller dogs, maddened by the excitement, were yelling and snapping at the elephant's hind-legs as if it had been a sheep, regardless of the kicks they received. It seemed certain that some dogs must be killed Bill Sykes and Turk had the most dangerous places but unless they were killed on the spot, none of the seizers were dogs that would let go.

The encounter had been so unexpected that we had no ropes with us, but there were some with the pad-elephant nearly a mile behind. It took time to get these, and meanwhile the elephant rushed about, kicking and dragging the dogs through bamboos and in and out of ravines. It followed us when we got in front to head and delay it till the ropes came, but was too much hampered to catch any one.- When the ropes arrived, Bismarck, Lady, and Bill Sykes were still at their holds, but Turk was so thorough!/ exhausted that he had been shaken off : though the flesh was weak, however, the spirit was willing, and he still tottered after the elephant, which had now subsided into a walk. Had the ropes not come when they did the seizers would have been wearied out, and the elephant might have escaped.

I had two Chittagong elephant-catchers with me, whom I had brought from Bengal, and as soon as the ropes arrived they caught the elephant's hind-legs in running nooses, and got a turn round a tree. When both lega were secured we got the dogs off, which was dangerous work, as they had to be caught hold off and half choked within reach of the elephant. They had to be carried from the spot and bathed in a stream near: there were no bones broken, but they were much bruised. However, what did that matter to dogs of their stamp ? Plenty of milk and good soft beds of straw soon put them all right.

Leopard subjugated by 4 bull terriers

I once let a full-grown leopard out of a cage in an open plain with Bill Sykes, Turk, Bismarck, and Tiger. They speedily rendered him hors de combat, though I had to put a knife into him at last, as it is impossible for dogs to kill a panther or bear outright, though they can make them unable to leave the spot. Turk was the only dog bitten, and he was not severely hurt. Panthers or leopards in caves might be easily overcome with such dogs.

Does mention that it's "impossible" for dogs to kill leopards outright, but again, we need to remember the guy is using ~35 lbs dogs. Never anything over 40 lbs the whole time he is there.

More musings on using bull terriers on leopards and bears-

It is remarkable how little injury the dogs sustain in this rough style of hunting. The simultaneousness of their attack overpowers a bear or panther, and prevents its paying attention to any dog in particular. The bull-dog's habit of fixing on to the nose or cheek of a foe renders the animal it seizes unable to do much injury by biting when once it has been seized. Then, though bears and panthers can inflict a severe blow when the object struck is at arm's-length, when it is very close their paws and claws are comparatively powerless. A bear's claws are so blunt that when a dog is holding him he cannot tear his skin, or make any wound, though at arm'slength he might cuff him soundly ; and a panther, though his claws are so sharp, can do little more harm. A bear never hugs the dogs ; his nose makes a splendid hold ; and from what I have seen, I consider two really good bull-dogs a complete match for any bear, if they get a fair chance of flying at him together. Once seized by the snout a bear is a helpless creature, and does little but roll over and howl.

Dude really doesn't rate bears, and I do believe dogs are weirdly good at dealing with bears-

Six will be as many as are required for any bear, bison, or panther, and indeed four will generally suffice, or even two with most bears.

Another bear account-

The first animals I introduced my pack to were a couple of bears. I had the following six seizers then:

MARQUIS; An imported bull-mastiff, weighing 40 lbs.
LADY; A country-bred bull-terrier bitch, 35 lbs.
Bismarck, Viper and Fury; Pups of the above, weighing about 30 lbs. each, 9 months old
Turk: A country bred bull-terrier, weighing 40 lbs

The above was not a strong pack; Marquis was old, and three were only pups. However, there was nothing for it but to make a trial.

One morning my men succeeded in marking two bears into a favourable locality among some rocks on a hillside near Morlay. The hill sloped gently to the plain below, and was clear of bushes. We approached the rocks from one side. There was no cave, but the bears were sitting on a table-rock, overhung by a larger one, enjoying the early warmth of the sun preparatory to turning in. Upon our appearance within thirty yards they made off. I killed the female on the spot with my express. She tumbled off the rock and rolled a few yards ; the male jumped after her, and with howls made off down the hill. The dogs were with us in leash, and as soon as the bear was well started they were slipped. Unfortunately Turk tackled the dead bear; the other five pursued the fugitive one. Marquis was up first, and sprang at the bear's head, and over the two rolled amidst fearful shrieks from the bear. I thought no dog could have held on under such somersaults as they turned ; but when they stopped, Marquis was fast to the bear's cheek. The bear now reared up, and might have punished the dog, but Bismarck at this moment seized one ear, Lady the other, and Viper and Fury his snout. From that time the bear was unable to rear, the dogs pulling him over sideways, or keeping his head to the ground, at each attempt. He tried hard, but in vain, to clear his head with his paws. I had expected he would cut the dogs up a good deal, but they kept his head down so much that he could not strike out, and at close quarters he could not tear them. In about ten minutes the bear was quite done, and two thrusts with my knife behind the shoulder settled him. I might have killed him the moment I came up, but there was no necessity for it, as the dogs were masters of him after he was seized. None of them sustained any injury on this occasion.

[grippingwhiteness]

Thanks to you all, saving all of these in my notes if they have to come into help against someone believing wolves have better feats than dogs

[s]

Not an actual account, but it's a cool depiction, it's a symbol from the Dogo Español National Club, they are very similar to Alanos but bigger.