Leopards vs lions and tigers

[Hardcastle]

No not talking about an arena face off here, think we know how that goes -






Although -





But no, I actually want to just talk about the fact there are lots of testimonials from sportsmen and circus lion tamers and etc etc from the 19th century and early 20th century that seem to imply the leopard is actually more badass and dangerous. 

Curious what you guys make of this? And also we can use this thread to accumulate such comparisons. 

[Hardcastle]

Some quotes by Samuel White Baker

Although the genus Felis embraces in its nomenclature all the various representatives, from the lion (Felis Leo) to the ordinary domestic cat, the two principal examples of the race, the lion and tiger, are totally distinct from all others in their natural characters. The leopard is far more daring; at the same time it is infinitely more cautious, and difficult to discover.

They are all cunning, ferocious, and destructive, and I believe that far more cattle and goats are killed by leopards throughout the Indian Empire than by the usually accredited malefactor, the tiger.

The panther or larger variety of leopard is about 7 ft. 6 in. in length, and has been known to approach closely upon 8 feet, but this would be an unusual size. This animal is exceedingly powerful, with massive neck and strongly developed legs. The weight of a fine specimen would be from about 160 lbs. to 170 lbs. Although heavy, there is no animal more active, except the monkey, and even those wide-awake creatures are sometimes caught, by the ever-watchful panther. Stories are told of accidents that have occurred when the hunter has been pulled out of his tree, from which imaginary security he was watching for his expected game. It is impossible to deny such facts, although they are fortunately rare exceptions to the general rule; but there can be no doubt that a panther or leopard would attack upon many occasions when a tiger would prefer to slink away.

It is far more difficult to circumvent a leopard than a tiger; the latter seldom or never looks upwards to the trees, therefore it does not perceive the hidden danger when the hunter is watching from his elevated post; but the leopard approaches its kill in the most wary and cautious manner, crouching occasionally, and examining every yard of the ground before it, at the same time scanning the overhanging boughs, which it so frequently seeks as a place of refuge. Upon many occasions, when the disappointed watcher imagines that the leopard has forsaken its kill, and that his patience will be unrewarded, the animal may be closely scanning him from the dense bush, under cover of which it was noiselessly approaching. In such a case the leopard would retreat as silently as it had advanced, and the watcher would return home from a fruitless vigil, under the impression that the leopard had never been within a mile of his position.

Lions and tigers may be dangerous in the jungles in every country which they inhabit, but they never invade the actual premises; it is exactly there where the leopard is to be feared. Nothing is too small or too large for its attack; from a fowl upon the roost to a cow in the pasturage, all that belongs to the domestic stock is fair game for the wily leopard.

In every country the natives are unanimous in declaring that the leopard is more dangerous than the lion or tiger, and I quite agree in their theory that when any dangerous animal is met with, the traveller should endeavour to avoid its direct gaze. It is an error to suppose that the steady look from the human eye will affect an animal by a superior power, and thereby exert a subduing influence; on the contrary, I believe that the mere fact of this concentration of a fixed stare upon the responding eyes of a savage animal will increase its rage and incite attack. If an animal sees you, and it imagines that it is itself unobserved, it will frequently pass by, or otherwise retreat, as it believes that it is unseen, and therefore it has no immediate dread; but if it is convinced that you mean mischief, by staring it out of countenance, it will in all probability take the initiative and forestall the anticipated attack.

A leopard will frequently attack if it is certain that your eyes have met, and it is always advisable, if you are unarmed, to pretend to disregard it, at the same time that you keep an acute look-out lest it should approach you from behind. Wherever I have been in Africa, the natives have declared that they had no fear of a lion, provided that they were not hunting, as it would certainly not attack them unprovoked; but that a leopard was never to be trusted, especially should it feel that it was discovered. I remember an occasion when the dry grass had been fired, and a native boy, accompanied by his grown-up brother, was busily employed with others in igniting the yellow reeds on the opposite bank of a small stream, which had checked the advance of the approaching flames. Being thirsty and hot, the boy stooped down to drink, and he was immediately seized by a leopard, which sprang from the high grass. His brother, with admirable aim, hurled his spear at the leopard while the boy was in its jaws; the point separated the vertebrae of the neck, and the fierce brute fell stone dead. The boy was carried to my hut, but there was no chance of recovery, as the fangs had torn open his chest and injured the lungs; these were exposed to view through the cavity between his ribs. He died during the night. The muscular strength of the jaws and neck is very marked in all the carnivora, and the skull when cleaned is most disappointing, and insignificant if compared with the size of a living head. This is especially the case with leopards, and it is difficult to believe that so small a pair of jaws can inflict a deadly wound almost immediately.

[Hardcastle]

grippingwhiteness

PumAcinonyx SuperCat

Curious if you guys in particular have any thoughts on this, I'm talking about the potential that leopards are perhaps proportionately superior or at least in some ways more impressive than tigers and lions? Some testimonies seem to suggest so. 

[oldgreengrolar]

Leopards seem to be the most adaptable of the big cats.They are able to survive in the Savannah as well as the rain forest etc. Many of the quotes above do make sense.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Hardcastle 

Wow, really interesting thread. Surprised I didn't see the "tagging" in my notifications. I'm about to go to sleep now. I'll respond tomorrow, unfailingly, and if you don't mind, I'll also like to bring cougars a bit into the picture.

[Hardcastle]

Sept 6, 2023 22:48:54 GMT PumAcinonyx SuperCat said:

Hardcastle 

Wow, really interesting thread. Surprised I didn't see the "tagging" in my notifications. I'm about to go to sleep now. I'll respond tomorrow, unfailingly, and if you don't mind, I'll also like to bring cougars a bit into the picture.

Absolutely, my bone-headed over-sight to not mention them. I just happened to have leopard comparisons on hand. But definitely any puma stuff would be greatly welcomed.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Yes, great stuff Hardcastle . I’ve just got to say I agree with everything. The quotes from Samuel Baker line up perfectly with testimony from other big game/leopard and tiger hunters from the 19th and 20th centuries like Kenneth Anderson and Jim Corbett. 


With the imposing size and strength advantage that lions and tigers have over leopards (and literally every other cat), it’s very easy to think of them as the ‘’ultimate’’ members of the cat tribe that surpass all other cats in ‘’every’’ regard; that is, they don’t have areas where other cats outshine them. And this is honestly very misleading, as a matter of fact, nothing could be further from the truth.
Part of the reason for this could be their popularity among virtually the whole of humanity (animal enthusiast or not, everybody knows tigers and lions), which causes them to stand out more in the ‘’spotlight’’ of feline achievements, while the other very subtle, but also very important attributes of the smaller and weaker cats can easily be overlooked by most people. 


Now, to the main point: Hands down, lions and tigers are physically stronger than leopards. But there are areas where their spotted cousin actually does outperform them, areas where leopards have left an impression on many indigenous people, writers, and hunters as being superior to tigers in. And, I’ll just post some of what I’ve been able to gather, and also talk about the nature of the leopard as a whole, and to some extent, the cougar too.
Some areas where leopards have been regarded being superior to tigers in. 


We can start with...


...Adaptability to wild habitats:

Leopards are said to be the ‘’most versatile and widespread of the world’s big cats’’, having a range that spans the rainforests of western Africa, the deserts of southwestern Asia, the rainforests of Indochina, and the temperate woods of southeastern Russia: 



Taken From: Monster of God : the man-eating predator in the jungles of history and the mind (Page 55): archive.org/details/monsterofgodman00quam/page/55/mode/1up?view=theater


Now, it could be debated whether the honour of ‘’most adaptable’’ big cat goes to the cougar or leopard, but for now, let’s just say it’s kind of a tie. I think this is one thing in which leopards are somewhat better than both lions and tigers: it would appear that they have the ability to cope/thrive in any terrestrial habitat/biome that they find themselves in, provided it has their requirements: good prey base, expansive habitat, all that good stuff.

I’d say that leopards are superior to lions in particular in this regard, as leopards do very well in rainforest regions like Central Africa, West Africa, Indonesia, and the likes, while it’s well known that lions don’t have a liking for forest habitats (though I’m aware that there are some in Central Africa), but instead prefer vast open savannahs for the overwhelmingly greater part. 

In fact, IIRC, I think it was said that it’s not even certain whether some of the so-called ‘’forest lions’’ were actually resident lions, but that it’s possible that some were just ‘’passing through’’ to some destination. 

Tigers too can adapt to just about any circumstance, from the steaming jungles of India (where temperatures can hit 42 degrees Celsius) to the blistering cold of the Russian Far East. Lions haven’t really shown themselves to be able to thrive in snowy environments, while leopards have shown that they can, as evidenced by the Amur leopard. 

So, in adaptability, I think both leopards and tigers are superior to lions, and I think leopards may be slightly better than tigers in this regard, also extending their range into mountains, like in Kenya. 


Ability to tolerate human proximity: 

Leopards are said to be ‘’furtive and enterprising’’ (stealthy and brave, simultaneously), able to make the most of whatever they have at any given moment. And this allows them to tolerate human proximity FAR better than lions and tigers do. They are able to live among humans without being noticed or dispelled from their territory, and that’s why they can easily sneak in and out of villages to prey on stray dogs: 



Taken From: Monster of God : the man-eating predator in the jungles of history and the mind (Page 56)


Stealthiness, agility, and aggression: 


Stealth and agility 

Now, this is where we get a good deal of testimonies from outdoorsmen about leopards being able to somewhat ‘’do things that are impossible for lions or tigers’’ or testimonies of leopards ‘’succeeding where tigers failed’’ and stuff of that sort. 

One thing that is repeatedly mentioned about the leopard in comparison to the lion/tiger is its unique ability to stay hidden in the most unlikely of circumstances. Essentially, the leopard is portrayed as being of an even greater magnitude of stealth/quietness than lions and tigers.

Kenneth Anderson describes this beautifully in his book titled ‘’Nine Man-Eaters and One Rogue’’ where he talks about his hunting experiences with man-eaters in the jungles of India, mainly tigers and leopards, and one rogue elephant that apparently was very aggressive and dangerous to humans, due to musth.
He says that due to the leopard’s smaller size and lesser strength than the tiger’s, alongside its natural fear of humans, the leopard is usually treated with disdain/contempt, and sometimes even with carelessness, by humans. 

Effectively, people give leopards less respect than they do tigers, and this nonchalance towards leopards has on occasion, led to the attacking or even killing of certain tiger hunters that would, on a normal day, (if they were hunting tigers) be more careful, observant, and cautious.

He contrasts the tiger and leopard in their habits when attacking a human, stating that while a leopard would rarely finish the job, but would instead deploy ‘’a series of quick bites and quicker raking scratches with its small but sharp claws’’, few people live to tell the story of a tiger attack.

At this point, he is trying to communicate a difference in bloodthirst between tigers and leopards, stating that, as a general rule, the tiger is more of a man-eater than the leopard. He however states that there is ‘’one fearful exception’’ to this rule, and that is when a leopard fully commits to being a pure man-eater, when a leopard actually has a taste for human flesh. 

He describes that when this happens, leopards become ‘’an engine of destruction’’ which despite being much smaller and weaker, is ‘’quite EQUAL to his far larger cousin, the tiger.’’

He later goes on to say that leopards are greater masters of stealth than tigers are, being able to ‘’conceal himself in places IMPOSSIBLE to a tiger’’, and that leopards have a far less need for water than tigers do (whether he is trying to communicate that leopards can endure longer periods of thirst than tigers, or that leopards don’t need to utilize water bodies like lakes and rivers as much as tigers do, I am unsure, but we can clearly see that he’s pointing to leopard superiority to tigers in a certain regard). 

But what I find truly interesting are his last words in this quote: ‘’…in veritable demoniac cunning and daring, coupled with the uncanny sense of self-preservation and stealthy disappearance when danger threatens, he has NO EQUAL.’’ 

I believe he is suggesting that the leopard embodies certain traits like cunning, courage, and self-preservation, better than tigers do, so far as to say that leopards have ‘’no equal.’’ : 





Taken From: Nine Man-eaters And One Rogue (Pages 36-37 Chapter 2: The Spotted Devil of Gummalapur): archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.460900/page/n33/mode/1up?view=theater


Kenneth Anderson’s perspective is corroborated by another writer in the Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society, who states that a man-eating leopard is deserving of more dread and fear than a man-eating tiger.

Again, he refers to the man-eating leopard commanding greater fear than the man-eating tiger ‘’on account of its greater agility, and also its GREATER STEALTHINESS and silence.’’ He says that leopards can ‘’stalk, jump, and… climb better than a tiger…’’ and can also ‘’conceal itself in astonishingly meager cover, often quite displaying UNCANNY INTELLIGENCE in this act.’’

Yeah, pretty good testimony about the leopard’s unique stealth, even by cat standards. I’m pretty sure there are many other corroborating statements, but I beleive it’s clear that leopards in general have exhibited/demonstrated a far greater efficacy in staying hidden in hard-to-hide places than tigers have, partly due to their smaller size. But it would appear that, other than a smaller size, they just have this unique ability to remain invisible in places where a tiger cannot: 



Taken From: Monster of God : the man-eating predator in the jungles of history and the mind (Page 57) 

A recurrent theme among observers is that while lions and tigers may be big and fearsome, leopards embody a greater level of stealth than either of these cats, being harder to see or single out. Jim Corbett relates an incident in which a leopard displayed a remarkable show of stealthiness.

A leopard crawled, and twisted, and squeezed its way through multiple rows of people to retrieve a certain woman that had sought out the safest part of a particular shelter, which was surrounded by FIFTY pilgrims. 

It afterwards took the same path on its way out, only this time, it was holding the woman in its jaws. It moved so stealthily and quietly that nobody saw or heard it. A level of stealth, not displayed by even lions and tigers: 





Taken From: Monster of God : the man-eating predator in the jungles of history and the mind (Pages 57-58)


Aggression

It’s kind of generally agreed that leopards are the most aggressive of the big cats, even more so than tigers are. At certain times, leopards seem to have a more terrifying aura than tigers do.

Famed hunter, Jim Corbett noted that the grunt of a charging leopard has something that is uniquely terrifying about it.
He actually observed an elephant group that were aggressive to, and that stood their ground against, a tiger, STAMPEDE from a charging leopard. And this, despite the fact that the leopard is much smaller than a tiger:




Taken From: The temple tiger, and more man-eaters of Kumaon (Page 92): archive.org/details/templetigermorem0000jimc/page/91/mode/1up?q=There+is+something+very+terrifying+in+the+angry+grunt+of+a+charging+leopard%2C+and+I+have+seen+a+line+of+elephants+that+were+staunch+to+a+tiger+turn+and+stampede+from+a+charging+leopard&view=theater


Duality in nature 

Leopards possess two different natures: being very timid and very bold under different circumstances. While they typically flee at the sight of danger, when pressed or desperate, they display acts of courage that almost make them look like they have an ‘’alter ego.’’ This page below describes that: 



Taken From: Monster of God : the man-eating predator in the jungles of history and the mind (Page 57) 


These are two traits that appear to perfectly balance in one animal.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Now, here's the part where I post videos and also talk about cougars.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

One thing that really fascinates me about leopards is their ability to cope under immense pressure; to come out of, or last longer in a situation that looks hopeless or bleak. And now, I'm actually talking about leopard vs lion, as in videos that we have on tape. 

Leopards sure, cannot be proportionately inferior to lions as evidenced by videos where multiple lions, each one far bigger than the leopard failed to immediately kill a leopard. These videos below are astonishing: 




I wonder if the roles could be reversed for these 2 cats, and let's see how well the lion would end up. Imagine there were 12 leopards, and a very young lion, that is much smaller than anyone of those 12. Would the lion last up to 2 minutes? I think not. 




The ''lie on your back, and strike with your paws'' strategy turned out to be invaluable and a lifesaver for this leopard. It was evident that the claws acted as a good deterrent to the lions. Certainly, if the battle had dragged on longer, and somebody had to die, it would have been the leopard. But being able to SIMULTANEOUSLY keep FOUR lionesses, each one 2-3 times your mass at bay... I just don't have any word to describe that other than ''badass.'' 




These lions kept taking turns, and the leopard kept dishing out vengeance to all of them. Another badass scene from a leopard.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Some people try to use those vids of leopards performing well against multiple lions as pro leopard evidence in the ''Cougar vs Leopard'' debate, and then, they'll be like ''can you show me a cougar doing that?'', which is just an unimaginably stupid question, because, come on bro, do cougars and lions even coexist? So, how on God's green earth do you expect a cougar to put up a fight against 4 lionesses that it would never meet in its lifetime? 

But people who use those videos to debate against cougars are wrong, because, yes, we have an instance of a cougar also fighting a lion and not dying. Sure, it didn't kill the lion, but do leopards ever kill the lions that they fight? 

The cougar gave a very good account of itself, and came out alive of a rather seemingly hopeless scenario. This is the account. It happened in a zoo, the Hogle Zoological garden to be specific: 


Pages to back this up: 






A ''Cougar vs Lion'' scene where the cougar gave a great account of itself. It again shows how the agility of the lesser big cats like cougars and leopards (both of which are much weaker, but much more arboreal and flexible than lions and tigers) can come in handy in life-or-death situations, and propel them to a whole new level of badassery than what would typically be expected by many people.

[s]

As people already said him, Leopard is probably the most multirole Feline (with the possible exception of Jaguar, who is better than Leopard on areas with high humidity and high water level, and has better amphibious movement, but i believe it's not nearly as good in Arid lands)

Leopards are heavy enough to pack a very decent punch but not too heavy to the point of sacrificing in stealth and agility

Leopards have a good adaptation to a lot of climates, hot temperature or middle temperature, humid or arid, inland or coastal

And it's now like they badly need that extra power, aside from Lions they are already the 2rd strongest land (didn't include crocodriles because they are amphibious Predators, not land Predators) predator of Africa, with Spotted Hyena a close 3rd.

[grippingwhiteness]

Sept 6, 2023 16:42:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

grippingwhiteness

PumAcinonyx SuperCat

Curious if you guys in particular have any thoughts on this, I'm talking about the potential that leopards are perhaps proportionately superior or at least in some ways more impressive than tigers and lions? Some testimonies seem to suggest so. 

In terms of adaptivity, no modern big cat compares to the leopard as the Leopard is the most widespread big cat in existence today. I'd even suggest they are very good at thriving despite heavy persecution aswell.

In terms of pound for pound abilities, not because I'm a fan of them but I think that also cougars are pound for pound superior to lions and tigers. In my opinion in terms of pfp formidability, a list would be

1)Jaguar
2)Leopard/Cougar
3)Tiger/Lion
4)Snow leopard
5)Cheetah.

But it's all subjectivity

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Sept 8, 2023 21:22:03 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Sept 6, 2023 16:42:36 GMT Hardcastle said:

grippingwhiteness

PumAcinonyx SuperCat

Curious if you guys in particular have any thoughts on this, I'm talking about the potential that leopards are perhaps proportionately superior or at least in some ways more impressive than tigers and lions? Some testimonies seem to suggest so. 

In terms of adaptivity, no modern big cat compares to the leopard as the Leopard is the most widespread big cat in existence today. I'd even suggest they are very good at thriving despite heavy persecution aswell.

In terms of pound for pound abilities, not because I'm a fan of them but I think that also cougars are pound for pound superior to lions and tigers. In my opinion in terms of pfp formidability, a list would be

1)Jaguar
2)Leopard/Cougar
3)Tiger/Lion
4)Snow leopard
5)Cheetah.

But it's all subjectivity

I think I can agree on the pound for pound ranking. In fact, I've been thinking if that's something deserving of a thread of its own.

[Hardcastle]

Maybe the snow leopard shouldn't even be below the tiger and lion, proportionately. Closest relative is the tiger, and its feats for its size are undeniable. Not fully sure why it is always diminished like it is between cheetah and puma (I mean traditionally, when the puma was placed lower than tigers and lions, and in turn many put leopard lower than them, and puma lower than leopard etc Snow leopard always got automatically lowered than all but cheetah and I don't really see why).

[Hardcastle]

And where would clouded leopard fit in this?