Tosa Inu vs Sun Bear

[Deleted]

vs

[Deleted]

Tough one, the question is if the Tosa can damage the bear and also to be fair if the bear can damage the Tosa. I'll tell you right now those claws won't cut it, maybe the jaws will...

[Hardcastle]

This is one fight I'd actually happily arrange and watch and not feel like it was unethical. It would be a very interesting wrestling match. I see no way it ends other than both just being exhausted and fine. Who dominates the harmless wrestle? I think tosa, more often, but mixed results.

[brobear]

Of all living bears, the sun bear appears to be the most physically directed towards fighting. He has the longest canine teeth per size. He has the longest claws per size. He has loose skin, like a Chinese Shar Pei. His jaws are immensely strong. And, he is by far a better grappler than any dog breed.
I have to wonder if perhaps he might be designed to defend himself successfully against leopards.

[oldgreengrolar]

/\I have not heard of a leopard preying on an adult male sun bear. Anyway, I vote for the sun bear due to its greater grappling skills as well as having more weapons.

[Deleted]

I vote Tosa because the bear could die of exhaustion before the Tosa. That is what this will come down to. No matter who dominates, but for the record it'd probably be the Tosa.

[Deleted]

I favour Sun bear due to large claws, good grappling abilities, loose skin, strong bite force, large canines and as it’s more willing to fight than other bears.

[theundertaker45]

One thing I'd like to post here is this video of two sun bears fighting each other; I suppose it's not serious as they are held captive. In the beginning the more aggressive and dominant individual pulls the other one inside the cage just using his jaws and with such ease/explosiveness that I am genuinely wondering where the fighting potential of a wild male sun bear is. I've never seen another bear species manhandle a similar sized rival just by using its head and also not being able to genuinely hurt each other due to the loose skin around the neck. I suppose when sun bears are fighting each other seriously they'll deal a lot of internal injuries to each other as I see no way how their skin can be penetrated or torn off by something sharp. A skull bite would be the only option to end the fight quickly but there are very few creatures who could just put their entire bobblehead into their mouth.

In case you aren't aware, sun bears have the most freakishly sized heads p4p I've ever seen on a modern mammalian carnivore; they have large canine teeth too and their heads are immensely wide, hence their bite force being so high. I once scaled the skull of a female sun bear and a male lion to the same length and the big cat skull looked puny and gracile next to it which says a lot as big cats have very impressive skulls per length. So yeah, pound for pound they seem to be absolutely terrifying animals with their gigantic heads, huge claws/teeth, their "rubber skin" and the ability to grapple extremely well with their forelimbs. So far I haven't been able to detect any weakness except maybe their rather lanky build in comparison to other larger bear species. Personally I am more than confident that an experienced male sun bear (a guy very interested and knowledgeable in bears, you may know him as "Warsaw" on other platforms even showed me scientific evidence that they fight a lot too; old males have a lot of scars all over their body) could take on absolutely anything within his size range and potentially pull off greater upsets than a sloth bear given the chance.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2023 10:53:00 GMT theundertaker45 said:

One thing I'd like to post here is this video of two sun bears fighting each other; I suppose it's not serious as they are held captive. In the beginning the more aggressive and dominant individual pulls the other one inside the cage just using his jaws and with such ease/explosiveness that I am genuinely wondering where the fighting potential of a wild male sun bear is. I've never seen another bear species manhandle a similar sized rival just by using its head and also not being able to genuinely hurt each other due to the loose skin around the neck. I suppose when sun bears are fighting each other seriously they'll deal a lot of internal injuries to each other as I see no way how their skin can be penetrated or torn off by something sharp. A skull bite would be the only option to end the fight quickly but there are very few creatures who could just put their entire bobblehead into their mouth.

In case you aren't aware, sun bears have the most freakishly sized heads p4p I've ever seen on a modern mammalian carnivore; they have large canine teeth too and their heads are immensely wide, hence their bite force being so high. I once scaled the skull of a female sun bear and a male lion to the same length and the big cat skull looked puny and gracile next to it which says a lot as big cats have very impressive skulls per length. So yeah, pound for pound they seem to be absolutely terrifying animals with their gigantic heads, huge claws/teeth, their "rubber skin" and the ability to grapple extremely well with their forelimbs. So far I haven't been able to detect any weakness except maybe their rather lanky build in comparison to other larger bear species. Personally I am more than confident that an experienced male sun bear (a guy very interested and knowledgeable in bears, you may know him as "Warsaw" on other platforms even showed me scientific evidence that they fight a lot too; old males have a lot of scars all over their body) could take on absolutely anything within his size range and potentially pull off greater upsets than a sloth bear given the chance.

Who do you favour?

[Hardcastle]

Just in case it's not clear, me saying this is a good wrestle that could go either way is actually me acknowledging the sun bear is super special. You need to remember who you are talking too. I don't think negatively about dogs at all and mean it, so a wild animal being able to wrestle with an elite professional wrestling dog is a feather in the wild animal's cap. Not an insult, the extreme opposite. Note such dogs are actually on record tossing bigger bears around and pinning them down by the nose while they howl in agony. Browns and blacks 3 or 4 times the size of the dogs in question. So I'm elevating the sun bear here. I think highly of it.

The fact Sun bears fight off leopards goes without saying, tigers too, I would think. Like the sloth bear.

I actually tend towards the sun bear, sloth bear, and I suspect maybe also the spectacled bear, being the best fighters among bears lbs for lbs. And yeah I'd be open to sun bear being #1. It's loose skin and small size despite the threats it has to deal with says a lot. It's built to fight.

But yes, dogs like the tosa are ALSO built to fight and built to do little else, so...

For what it's worth, I think if ANYONE was gonna kill anyone, it would be the sun bear killing the tosa. I just don't see that happening very often.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2023 11:53:28 GMT Hardcastle said:

Just in case it's not clear, me saying this is a good wrestle that could go either way is actually me acknowledging the sun bear is super special. You need to remember who you are talking too. I don't think negatively about dogs at all and mean it, so a wild animal being able to wrestle with an elite professional wrestling dog is a feather in the wild animal's cap. Not an insult, the extreme opposite. Note such dogs are actually on record tossing bigger bears around and pinning them down by the nose while they howl in agony. Browns and blacks 3 or 4 times the size of the dogs in question. So I'm elevating the sun bear here. I think highly of it.

The fact Sun bears fight off leopards goes without saying, tigers too, I would think. Like the sloth bear.

I actually tend towards the sun bear, sloth bear, and I suspect maybe also the spectacled bear, being the best fighters among bears lbs for lbs. And yeah I'd be open to sun bear being #1. It's loose skin and small size despite the threats it has to deal with says a lot. It's built to fight.

But yes, dogs like the tosa are ALSO built to fight and built to do little else, so...

For what it's worth, I think if ANYONE was gonna kill anyone, it would be the sun bear killing the tosa. I just don't see that happening very often.

Who was denying it?

[Hardcastle]

I thought maybe brobear and undertaker felt the bear was being disrespected, which I would totally understand but I'm just reminding them it's me- the guy who holds the fighting ability of dogs in extremely high esteem. I'm actually respecting the sun bear more than I would maybe any other carnivore at parity with a fighting dog.

[brobear]

Jan 3, 2023 8:53:40 GMT oldgreengrolar said:

/\I have not heard of a leopard preying on an adult male sun bear. Anyway, I vote for the sun bear due to its greater grappling skills as well as having more weapons.

Neither have I, but not every sun bear is an adult male. Sun bears, like the Andean bear, are highly arboreal. The only predator that might pose a threat to female and adolescent sun bears is the leopard. It could be that the earliest sun bears were actually Auvergne bears (Ursus minimus) which had migrated into tropical Asia. In any case, the sun bear adapted and acquired some rather formidable weaponry. 

[Deleted]

Jan 2, 2023 10:07:45 GMT brobear said:

Of all living bears, the sun bear appears to be the most physically directed towards fighting. He has the longest canine teeth per size. He has the longest claws per size. He has loose skin, like a Chinese Shar Pei. His jaws are immensely strong. And, he is by far a better grappler than any dog breed.
I have to wonder if perhaps he might be designed to defend himself successfully against leopards.

Who do you favour?