Patterdale Terrier vs Serval

[Hafstanni]

ㅤ

Attachments:

[Bolushi]

Mismatch in favor of the patterdale and that is a whack size comparison.

[Hafstanni]

Jul 22, 2023 0:02:32 GMT Bolushi said:

Mismatch in favor of the patterdale and that is a whack size comparison.

I was expecting you to say that. I scaled them to 35 and 60 cm based on information I found online, but I can always make a new one if someone can find more accurate information.

[Bolushi]

Jul 22, 2023 0:08:35 GMT Hafstanni said:

Jul 22, 2023 0:02:32 GMT Bolushi said:

Mismatch in favor of the patterdale and that is a whack size comparison.

I was expecting you to say that. I scaled them to 35 and 60 cm based on information I found online, but I can always make a new one if someone can find more accurate information.

I'm really not so sure, since I'm not good at size comparisons. So I'm surprised the serval looks that much taller. I guess I've been underestimating how tall servals really are. 

[Hardcastle]

Jul 21, 2023 23:51:21 GMT Hafstanni said:

ㅤ

Even if this was accurate (which... it can't be?) there would still be no way the serval could possibly win in a million years. A hypothetical size difference like that between a patterdale and a serval would STILL result in total destruction of the serval. It would look like least weasel vs rabbit I guess.

[Hardcastle]

The serval is genuinely twice the size of the patt, but in that comparison it seems to be about 5 or 6 times the size. Not entirely sure what the problem is.

[Deleted]

The serval gets clobbered, it’s a small prey specialist.

[grippingwhiteness]

If that comparison was somehow accurate I'd back at the serval without question, that would be far too large for the dog to handle and the head size difference wouldn't be a disadvantage for the small cat, general biggest disadvantage of the small cats compared to their big cat cousins (with the exception of the cheetah).
Problem is... That comparison is shit.
The fun fact is Servals are the maned wolves of the cat family, 60 cm in height yet only 18 kg max as reported weight.

That comparison would be genuine if you compared the smallest Patterdale bitch to the biggest serval ever although I still think it's oversized, here's a real one . I'll back at the Patterdale but I'm sure it can get out of the fight a bit torn. 




Also why do some Patterdales give me bull vibes?

I genuinely confused this Patterdales for an apbt, do they have some slight bull ancestry?

[grippingwhiteness]

Patterdales have killed coyotes btw, not sure who thinks this would be an even match.

[Hardcastle]

Jul 22, 2023 7:37:50 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

If that comparison was somehow accurate I'd back at the serval without question, that would be far too large for the dog to handle and the head size difference wouldn't be a disadvantage for the small cat, general biggest disadvantage of the small cats compared to their big cat cousins (with the exception of the cheetah).
Problem is... That comparison is shit.
The fun fact is Servals are the maned wolves of the cat family, 60 cm in height yet only 18 kg max as reported weight.

That comparison would be genuine if you compared the smallest Patterdale bitch to the biggest serval ever although I still think it's oversized, here's a real one . I'll back at the Patterdale but I'm sure it can get out of the fight a bit torn. 


View Attachment

Also why do some Patterdales give me bull vibes?

I genuinely confused this Patterdales for an apbt, do they have some slight bull ancestry?

View Attachment

They definitely all have bulldog in their ancestry. In fact terriers in general possibly have origins in blending chinese toy breeds with working dogs, bulldogs being one of the preferred favourites. And vice versa was done to shrink baiting bulldogs as well. Many patterdales seem to also have more recent apbt in their ancestry.

The "pitterpatt" is a common breeding and then I think these frequently have been absorbed back into patterdale lineages.


Even with that size comparison I just can't see the serval controlling the wirey little dog or being able to harm it with its little mouth. Reality would of course be much worse still. But even that hypothetical scenario has the dog winning IMO.

[Bolushi]

Jul 22, 2023 7:37:50 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

If that comparison was somehow accurate I'd back at the serval without question, that would be far too large for the dog to handle and the head size difference wouldn't be a disadvantage for the small cat, general biggest disadvantage of the small cats compared to their big cat cousins (with the exception of the cheetah).
Problem is... That comparison is shit.
The fun fact is Servals are the maned wolves of the cat family, 60 cm in height yet only 18 kg max as reported weight.

That comparison would be genuine if you compared the smallest Patterdale bitch to the biggest serval ever although I still think it's oversized, here's a real one . I'll back at the Patterdale but I'm sure it can get out of the fight a bit torn. 


View Attachment

Also why do some Patterdales give me bull vibes?

I genuinely confused this Patterdales for an apbt, do they have some slight bull ancestry?

View Attachment

Yeah I noticed the serval was like huge and I knew it was wrong I was just waiting to see if everyone else was seeing what I was seeing. That serval comparison by Carch is what a subadult cheetah and patterdale would look like next to each other.

Caracals and bobcats are more formidable than servals and they get smoked by terriers. This is super easy money for a Patterdale. Most of the animals Patts kill would kill a serval.
I don't even think the Patt gets hurt. A caracal or bobcat is formidable enough to make it a fight, long enough to rake the dog attacking it a little bit. This is a really puny cat, compared to bobcats who are already known to die extremely fast I don't even think the fight will get started. It will just be killed, the Patt having nothing to show for it.

Also yes Patterdales do have APBT in them in most American lines. The 50/50 crosses are called "Pitterpatts" but most working Patts have had APBT influence. Some is more apparent than others. The ones you mistake for APBTs could be Pitterpatts and they just call them Patterdales.

[Hafstanni]

If my comparison is wrong, could someone give me more accurate measurements for future comparisons?

[Hardcastle]

Jul 22, 2023 10:30:59 GMT Hafstanni said:

If my comparison is wrong, could someone give me more accurate measurements for future comparisons?

Dog sizes typically refer to very out-dated conformation standards, rather than actual measurements of real animals the way wild animal sizes are. Conservative ideals, rather than "the biggest one we've measured". Some of the conformation standards have very conservative sizes that simply don't reflect the reality of the breed at all. In some cases it would be nearly impossible to find an individual that matches their breed standard. Like with staffordshire bull terriers for example; 14-16" at the shoulder and 24-38 lbs. Good luck finding an SBT that small, 1 in 5 thousand maybe might be some little weird throwback. Many now are often 50-55 lbs and 18-20 inches.

I'm not too familiar with the patt situation, but I can tell SOME are clearly longer legged than others, and I think you have a photo of a "long legger" and you've shrunk it down to the standard which is probably reflective of the short legged specimens, that is why it looks to be literally 1/5th the weight of the serval. If you used a photo of a "squatter" short legged Patt, OR scaled a long legged patt up to maybe something more like 40-42 cm, I think we'd get a more accurate representation.

[grippingwhiteness]

Jul 22, 2023 9:23:11 GMT Bolushi said:

Jul 22, 2023 7:37:50 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

If that comparison was somehow accurate I'd back at the serval without question, that would be far too large for the dog to handle and the head size difference wouldn't be a disadvantage for the small cat, general biggest disadvantage of the small cats compared to their big cat cousins (with the exception of the cheetah).
Problem is... That comparison is shit.
The fun fact is Servals are the maned wolves of the cat family, 60 cm in height yet only 18 kg max as reported weight.

That comparison would be genuine if you compared the smallest Patterdale bitch to the biggest serval ever although I still think it's oversized, here's a real one . I'll back at the Patterdale but I'm sure it can get out of the fight a bit torn. 


View Attachment

Also why do some Patterdales give me bull vibes?

I genuinely confused this Patterdales for an apbt, do they have some slight bull ancestry?

View Attachment

Yeah I noticed the serval was like huge and I knew it was wrong I was just waiting to see if everyone else was seeing what I was seeing. That serval comparison by Carch is what a subadult cheetah and patterdale would look like next to each other.

Caracals and bobcats are more formidable than servals and they get smoked by terriers. This is super easy money for a Patterdale. Most of the animals Patts kill would kill a serval.
I don't even think the Patt gets hurt. A caracal or bobcat is formidable enough to make it a fight, long enough to rake the dog attacking it a little bit. This is a really puny cat, compared to bobcats who are already known to die extremely fast I don't even think the fight will get started. It will just be killed, the Patt having nothing to show for it.

Also yes Patterdales do have APBT in them in most American lines. The 50/50 crosses are called "Pitterpatts" but most working Patts have had APBT influence. Some is more apparent than others. The ones you mistake for APBTs could be Pitterpatts and they just call them Patterdales.

Servals are just scaled down cheetahs, the only small cat that is a true beast is the CL fr fr. Also way better looking coat that any caracal, serval and bobcat ever.

Now that makes sense because as I've discovered Patterdales they've always given me very strong apbt vibes and that makes sense, even calicatchers' posts of his patterdales killing yotes got me mistaking them for apbts .

And now I can see it very clearly in them. How does this bull ancestry (and clear apbt ancestry in the pitterpats crosses) make them compare with Jagds? I've known for sure Jagds outsize  jack russels and many other small terrier breeds and are also much stronger, but how do Patterdales/pitterpats compare? I assume the bull/apbt ancestry can add a lot of strength and mouth gripping skills to the patterdale at expense of the jagd. Which one would be the better hunting dog ? I know both will be elite hunting dogs for small to medium game. But which one will be the better one?

Also jagd x apbt crosses are interesting, will move the convo on Real Working Dogs Of The World

[Hardcastle]

Jul 22, 2023 22:18:54 GMT grippingwhiteness said:

Servals are just scaled down cheetahs, the only small cat that is a true beast is the CL fr fr. Also way better looking coat that any caracal, serval and bobcat ever.

Now that makes sense because as I've discovered Patterdales they've always given me very strong apbt vibes and that makes sense, even calicatchers' posts of his patterdales killing yotes got me mistaking them for apbts .

And now I can see it very clearly in them. How does this bull ancestry (and clear apbt ancestry in the pitterpats crosses) make them compare with Jagds? I've known for sure Jagds outsize  jack russels and many other small terrier breeds and are also much stronger, but how do Patterdales/pitterpats compare? I assume the bull/apbt ancestry can add a lot of strength and mouth gripping skills to the patterdale at expense of the jagd. Which one would be the better hunting dog ? I know both will be elite hunting dogs for small to medium game. But which one will be the better one?

Also jagd x apbt crosses are interesting, will move the convo on Real Working Dogs Of The World

We don't know for sure what went into the Jagd when it was created in the 1920s/30s. "Fell terriers" (basically patterdales or the group of hunting terriers from which patterdales were derived) were the foundation, but in their quest for epic optimal killing machines they (the nazis, incidentally) likely added more and among that I think bull, or bull terrier probably, was added for sure.